Time of Rossi's retirement

FTE217 said:

I think its a laugh saying VR to retire - I was a hugh fan up to his peak but being aussie kept an eye on CS on the LCR till thankfully he got the Duc ride and my aliegience obviously swayed to "our own" but I still admire VR.

No doubt he had the best of everything especially having JB in his corner but doesn't any top 1 rider get the best that hasn't changed but he sure has taken on a mighty feat iwth his own countries brand - this also adds big pressure especially having to tune the beast to HIS liking.

This is the calm before the storm I predict - as mentioned get him back on a Honda or Yami he'd be up there fighting for podiums for he sure has much more competition the last few years and on.

Everyone expects so much from he and his crew but working with the rest of the "Italians" is harder barrier than Simo's mad overtaking of late !

Schumacher for example without Brawn and many more brits behind the scenes would never have delivered with the Ferrari if it was left to the usual Italian engineers and management, this certainly has some synergies imo.



Lets see but it won't happen yet

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Bopper bashing aside, stoner is never going to match rossi's consistency and longevity over so long a period, unparalleled except for agostini as virtually all others however great at their peak have either burnt out or succumbed to injury. If stoner continues to proceed similarly through this season as he is doing so far it may become at least arguable that peak stoner and peak rossi are not much different though.

You wish!



...ducati+vale times will come... a little bit late, but they will come! They are not that far off...



Silverstone+weather...Lets judge after sunny Mugello!?

McKneZ said:

You wish!

...ducati+vale times will come... a little bit late, but they will come! They are not that far off...



Silverstone+weather...Lets judge after sunny Mugello!?

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You perhaps have not just watched the silverstone warm-up, not that the warm-up is the race let alone the season of course.



I am wishing, and realisation of my wishes seems to be occurring regularly recently, my wishes being for success by stoner rather than failure by valentino btw.



I believe valentino will contend strongly next year, but so I suspect will stoner. I am becoming unconvinced that even valentino and jb can fix the present ducati, with him having another front-end washout (so to speak) for no apparent good reason in the warm-up whilst circulating 5 seconds off stoner's pace. The only thing that might fix the current device of the devil is going back to the screamer as some are propounding elsewhere; I agree with bm that going big-bang seemed to coincide with the thing becoming really diabolical.

gui22a said:

Go away Rossi, you are just a common rider, not a hero.

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You do realise you're a tool right? He has won 9 championships in all series and on all type of bike, tyres etc. Stoner won on a far superior bike in 2007 and guess what, he's on a far superior bike this year.

nomad said:

You do realise you're a tool right? He has won 9 championships in all series and on all type of bike, tyres etc. Stoner won on a far superior bike in 2007 and guess what, he's on a far superior bike this year.

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Do we need to do all of these old arguments.



If the Ducati was in fact superior in 2007 then the second and third placed Ducati riders would have done so much better. Honda haven't won three races in a row since Rossi left them in whatever year that was (2003 or 2004). It would seem that Stoner just brings his superior bike with him wherever he goes

Why do you even answer this .....? It is probably pinky.

Evolution said:

Why do you even answer this .....? It is probably pinky.

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Indeed.

Andy Roo said:

Do we need to do all of these old arguments.



If the Ducati was in fact superior in 2007 then the second and third placed Ducati riders would have done so much better. Honda haven't won three races in a row since Rossi left them in whatever year that was (2003 or 2004). It would seem that Stoner just brings his superior bike with him wherever he goes

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Are you disputing the fact that the Honda isn't by far and away the best package this year?



Just to be clear I'm not doubting his ability; he is a very, very good rider but when someone pipes up that Rossi is basically rubbish and Stoners amazing and one has nine world titles and the other has one you've got to try and put things into perspective.

nomad said:

Are you disputing the fact that the Honda isn't by far and away the best package this year?



Just to be clear I'm not doubting his ability; he is a very, very good rider but when someone pipes up that Rossi is basically rubbish and Stoners amazing and one has nine world titles and the other has one you've got to try and put things into perspective.

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I was answering the "2007 bike was far superior". That myth has been so thoroughly debunked by now it reminds me of reading the crucible. Children denouncing people as witches kind of stuff.



The Honda is a great package. Simo bins it, Dovi fills the minor placings, Dani is suffering osteomalacia as he has in previous seasons, he had a win and now he is in a humidicrib being fed pure calcium and stem cell rich fetuses in order to build him up.



Apply the "but for rule". Honda "but for Stoner" is...._______________(insert answer).



It really provided some valuable insight into 2007. I dare you, be objective









Also, I don't dig on Rossi, but have never doubted the mans ability however - I am in awe (just not exclusively), I just think he is a camera kissing chutney ferret

michaelm said:

According to J4rno Mike the Bike Hailwood was apparently similar to stoner, apart from obviously being more successful than stoner has been thus far, in that he could ride fast on anything but his competitors benefited more from a good bike. Stoner seems similar in regard to the latter aspect as well, with jorge and simoncelli etc substantially faster on the softer presumably higher grip tyres but stoner usually being little faster than on the hard tyre. Perhaps his sliding of the bike in a controlled fashion on a hard tyre is integral to his pace as well as being pretty to watch.



Rossi will be a strong contender for the title next year, if ducati have to switch to an aluminium twin-spar chassis and a narrower angle V4 they will. If the current device is sufficiently vicious as to wear down valentino rossi in addition to casey stoner, it is ducati who have the problem, valentino rossi's enormous talent being unlikely to have suddenly disappeared. If the thing is still liable to let go without warning and without error discernible by anyone most of all the rider (which was always stoner's complaint, derided though he was for it), this is what can't be dealt with by anyone, and stoner fairly obviously only won on it latterly because he is somewhat crazy, which valentino is not.

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This^!!! Its good to know there are some level headed people around here...



Ok, for every so called bopper there is the equivalent Stoner fan. I've never heard anything quite so daft, you honestly think that Rossi's pride will let him retire without some success on the red bike? He has the ability, he just doesn't have the bike! Some of you people a ....... ....... that let the hatred talk...a little bit of common sense is whats needed people!

nomad said:

Stoner won on a far superior bike in 2007 and guess what, he's on a far superior bike this year.

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Guess what, by your own reasoning Rossi has only ever won on a far superior bike. ........ about bikes and luck or whatever else aside though, Rossi's record speaks for itself and for someone to achieve as much as him over such a large span of time speaks for itself and it is an incredible thing. But being the best at something however many times doesn't make you the best at it forever, times change and Rossi is no longer performing at that level. I know that his performance depends on aspects outside of simply going round in circles, but it is in areas other than 'just riding' that Rossi has been so superior in the past so we cannot negate his losses when they are in a similar context. I don't think many people doubt that in the right circumstances Rossi would be at the front giving anyone a run for their money, but riders don't just happen uppon their surroundings. They actually craft their surroundings, all of their external factors and anything that has implications on their performance, and while acknowledging that motogp is a hugely team based sport it is important when speaking in the context of the riders championship to give the competitors credit for the team they chose to be a part of and extracting what they can from that team in harmony with their own performance on a more isolated 'on the bike' level.



Anyway on topic, i think of Rossi doesn't come back and at least make a convincing title challenge next year then he will start to seriously think about retirement

Will he go to WSBK at some stage?

Andy Roo said:

I was answering the "2007 bike was far superior". That myth has been so thoroughly debunked by now it reminds me of reading the crucible. Children denouncing people as witches kind of stuff.



The Honda is a great package. Simo bins it, Dovi fills the minor placings, Dani is suffering osteomalacia as he has in previous seasons, he had a win and now he is in a humidicrib being fed pure calcium and stem cell rich fetuses in order to build him up.



Apply the "but for rule". Honda "but for Stoner" is...._______________(insert answer).



It really provided some valuable insight into 2007. I dare you, be objective









Also, I don't dig on Rossi, but have never doubted the mans ability however - I am in awe (just not exclusively), I just think he is a camera kissing chutney ferret

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And the answer is nowhere. The Honda is a good bike, in Casey Stoners hands, its a great bike.The Ducati was a good bike in Stoners hands, its an unmitigated disaster in the hands of everyone else. You cannot overstate what he was able to accomplish on the career killer.Stoner IS the difference.

povol said:

And the answer is nowhere. The Honda is a good bike, in Casey Stoners hands, its a great bike.The Ducati was a good bike in Stoners hands, its an unmitigated disaster in the hands of everyone else. You cannot overstate what he was able to accomplish on the career killer.Stoner IS the difference.

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It's really nice watching Stoner get some verbal support around here. I've been forced to swallow too much hate for this excepcional rider these past few years.

nomad said:

You do realise you're a tool right? He has won 9 championships in all series and on all type of bike, tyres etc. Stoner won on a far superior bike in 2007 and guess what, he's on a far superior bike this year.

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Here we go again. . .



Bikes don't ride themselves, It's the Nut Behind the Wheel that makes the difference. Unfortunately we are going to hear alot more these absolutely ridiculous comments throughout the year.

Meh...........



Some like Stoner, some like Rossi



Some liked Ago, some liked Hailwood....................not too many liked Read.........



Some liked Roberts, some liked Sheene, Some liked Rainey, some liked Schwantz ( Yay !), Doohan........whatever.



People will retire when they retire, their record speaks for itself after that point.



What is the real shame is that the machinery isn't closer so that they could have some top races between each other.



Then there could be some real arguments on here !!

GeePee said:

Will he go to WSBK at some stage?

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If he leaves motogp with the opinion he is still the best rider, and that his losses are due to his bike/the sport or whatever then i think he will. If he decides his time at the top is over, he will quit racing gracefully without taking out the racing pension that is WSBK.

nomad said:

Are you disputing the fact that the Honda isn't by far and away the best package this year?



Just to be clear I'm not doubting his ability; he is a very, very good rider but when someone pipes up that Rossi is basically rubbish and Stoners amazing and one has nine world titles and the other has one you've got to try and put things into perspective.

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You just don’t get it do you? we’re not saying that Rossi is .... because Rossi won all those titles, and he won them on Jap bikes that had all and the best but now Rossi is on the Duke the Duke needs balls and Rossi hasn’t got balls like Stoner did to ride that thing and win a W/C with and ride it for 4 years with no traction control no electronics no nothing, but of course Rossi can’t do that and that is why he’s so .... on the Duke and that is what we are saying here and you just don’t get it, but now that Stoner has the right equipment the R&D of the Honda you say that the Honda is faster superior well what happened in 2010 when the Honda wasn’t much different to what it is this year, I will tell you what is the difference …They have a real rider that has exceptional talent grit and balls and makes the Honda the real deal not a yoyo like Pedro and Puig did for all these years.

Scotty said:

You just don’t get it do you? we’re not saying that Rossi is .... because Rossi won all those titles, and he won them on Jap bikes that had all and the best but now Rossi is on the Duke the Duke needs balls and Rossi hasn’t got balls like Stoner did to ride that thing and win a W/C with and ride it for 4 years with no traction control no electronics no nothing, but of course Rossi can’t do that and that is why he’s so .... on the Duke and that is what we are saying here and you just don’t get it, but now that Stoner has the right equipment the R&D of the Honda you say that the Honda is faster superior well what happened in 2010 when the Honda wasn’t much different to what it is this year, I will tell you what is the difference …They have a real rider that has exceptional talent grit and balls and makes the Honda the real deal not a yoyo like Pedro and Puig did for all these years.

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hehe

Ummmmmmmmm........what about The yamaha ???................hadn't won a title ( and hardly a race) since Rainey.



No doubt the Honda was the thing when Rossi was on it, and he got the 211V before anyone else.............. happens.



Just as the Duck was the thing to be on when Stoner won his title........doesn't mean Stoner had it easy, or was gifted the title...........Cappa and the like were like the other Honda riders this year.......okay....but it needed a Stoner to win on it.



( Jeebus people..........do you know how much it takes out of me to write nice things about the little sook ! )



The Honda is the thing to be on this year ( especially if you can ride it like Stoner), and probably was just as capable for the last season as well.......if not for the last two or three..........



Does that make Stoners achievments .... ??..........I think not.



Whether we like it or not.......Rossi is a great rider.........whether he or Stoner is better than the other is a moot point until they are both on decent machinery.



Stoners efforts on the Duck were incredible, but.....as I said in another topic, Rossi is damned if he does, damned if he don't.



Go like Stoner on the Duck and bin it like Stoner did when he rode it harder than it was capable of going.........he's an ..... 'cause he has the experience to know better.



Do what he does now,.He's a has been who should retire, and only ever won because of the bike.



Catch 22.



......and both arguments only show the lack of knowledge about this sport, and an irrational bias to one rider over another akin to a teenage girls fascination as to who's sexier......Brad Pitt or or that short arse from lord of the rings.





Truth is........some are better than others.........but all of them are much better than any of us........so who are we to hang .....



Except when comes to the whinging of course



disclaimer; I AM NOT A ROSSI FAN.