Time of Rossi's retirement

The best of all pilot/rider can pilot/ride anything more or less good at a competitive level, these are Casey Stoner and Ayrton Senna. Sorry Italy, Rossi is not the Senna you are thinking he is.

Click to expand...

I totally agree on this point. A great rider can adapt to their machinery as Stoner does.



On Rossi predicament, I held high hopes of seeing him close to the pointy end of the grid by this time in the season. Boy, was I wrong. Silverstone is a shovel to the face which may take quite a bit to get over. This next month will be the real test of Rossi's mental strength. I am worried he may have thrown in the towel, he had a very Melandriesque look about him during qualifying.

gui22a said:

The title says all, I admit Ducati has a troubled machine right now, but not at the level where Rossi and Hayden are putting it.



Rossi reached his end, that started last year when Lorenzo kicked his arse.



Unless Ducati make a killer machine (very unlikely), Rossi will never be able to match the new guys to fight for the tittle in 2012.



I was very patient with Rossi, thinking Ducati is a piece of crap, but I can't tolerate his excuses anymore, shoulder, lack of track knowledge, pain, bike, tires, rain, and stuff. It's enough, Stoner had reason all this time, this guy is a deceiver.



He still could fight and win some races next year, but Valentino Rossi as he is known is over, the mask slipped.



The best of all pilot/rider can pilot/ride anything more or less good at a competitive level, these are Casey Stoner and Ayrton Senna. Sorry Italy, Rossi is not the Senna you are thinking he is.

Click to expand...

I think its a bit unfair to kick a man when hes down but you do make some valid points.



Valentino is without a doubt one of the all time greats...I consider him in the same league as Doohan and Rainey but he isnt the GOAT (I have never agreed with this bopper inspired title anyway). This has been shown since his move to Ducati...he needs a refined package to ride to his full potential and the Ducati most certainly doesn't fit that criteria. I also don't believe he is past his best but rather his approach so far this year has been tentative after his recent injuries and when combined with the recalcitrant Ducati it is probably beginning to negatively affect his pysche....maybe Duc have already booked him in to see Melandris shrink for a quick diagnostic.



Stoner is a freak...an anomaly. I have never seen a rider able to hop on a machine and go warp speed like he does....and he can do it without really having dialed in the bike which I believe is a unique quality only he is able to achieve. I think finally this year he will get the cudos he richly deserves. He has been on the brunt of much hatred and vitriol regarding his talent and abilities. I believe his tenure at Ducati eventually affected his health and the "mystery illness" was just a psychosomatic reaction to the stress of having to push that bike to the limit week in week out....the "fishing trip" was a release valve that allowed him to regain focus and again push to get the poles/wins only he has achieved on a bike no one else has come close to taming....that speaks volumes about his abilities as a rider.

My main worry is that the Duc destroys Rossi. I've said it before but get sooked at by the boppers..... Rossi is simillar to Melandri ( he's like the Melandri who got all the breaks ). The boppers take that as a slur however I am just being straight up and honest.



The problem is the Rossi.Ducati combo will not just ruin Rossi it will also ruin Ducati ....... and thats 6? bikes gone off the grid ........ it almost seems to me that Ducati were playing russian roulette, but with 5 cartridges in the cylinder , when they hired Rossi .............

Ah, the fickle fan!



Why are you so tough on him? The Ducati is an evolutionary dead end. Call it the Neanderthal of motogp bikes if you like...........a powerful beast, but lacking the package and skills to compete with more advanced species.



If it weren,t for Casey, Ducati would have had no 800cc wins, and Rossi would understandably have laughed at the thought of moving to Ducati. Thus Rossi was misled by the incorrect notion that CSs successes were largely bike related and the arrogant assumption that he could do as well or better than Stoner. This was his undoing. Rossi is a great rider, but not the GOAT, and now that is only too clear. He does however have a brilliant record and to assume that all his skills have suddenly disappeared is ridiculous. Put him on the Honda and Yamaha and he would be top 5 week in -week out. I DO believe though that Stoner and Lorenzo are better riders and that Simoncelli and Spies may well surpass him soon. Jumkie, I feel, negates his abilities a bit too much, but I do think that his equipment, tyre and crew advantages over the years have made his record better than his true abilities.

I think the most telling aspect of Rossi,s faith in his own abilities was to veto Stoner from joining Yamaha, doing the same with Lorenzo, and when that wasn,t successful, doing his best to oust Lorenzo afterwards. Stoner is only happy to have the same equipment as his teammates and I suspect Lorenzo is the same. The fact that Rossi was always manouevring for an advantage for himself and that he had to play mind-games with his competitors lessens his status I believe. The " I think it is difficult to assess the Ducatis strengths as Casey is not pushing hard enough" comment has certainly come back to haunt him in a big way.

Karma



But................if you are a real fan , you should not be disappointed. If you had to build his status up to such a degree (GOAT) , then it was only inevitable that when he came back to earth , the fall would be spectacular. Any Rossi fan that feels devastated really had it coming to them. Think about it..............



I had hopes for Bayliss and later Vermeulin, believing that both could be top 3 and possible world champions, They were bloody good, but not good enough in with the stratospheric standard that exists in the top motorcycling category in the world. I was a little bit disappointed, but still greatly enjoyed their respective one and only GP wins, especially Bayliss,s. So enjoy the success that Rossi had, accept the fact that the Ducati is a pig, accept the fact that Stoner and Lorenzo are now faster riders and accept the fact that if Ducati builds a decent bike for 2012, Rossi can be fighting for wins again. Do all that, and then you can be a real fan, a genuine fan, and not the fickle fan that dumps on their rider when suddenly the golden run finishes.

Be a bit realistic and then you can enjoy barracking for him again.



PS> I do get the feeling that Rossi is in despair at Silverstone. To be that far off the pace is finally getting to him (he,s never been in that situation before, as he has always had great bikes until this year ), and I think that this is preventing him from running at Haydens pace here. He is capable of Haydens pace but just now his heart isn,t in it. This is the time that true fans give him support and not dump on him. According to Krops report, even the Italian media is largely abandoning Rossi for Simoncelli. The fickle fans and the fickle press.................. I suppose it has ever been thus, but more obvious when they called you the GOAT.

lol we have heard this before, give it sometime give it sometime you are way to fast out of the gate.... but i agree about the shoulder i dont even listen to that story anymore.... man up .....

The final epitath is that............







Rossi,s move to Ducati has trashed Rossi,s reputation



and,



Rossi,s move to Ducati has trashed Ducatis reputation







..................but none of them saw it coming.





Both Rossi and Ducati were both equally delusional about the strengths of themselves and of their future partner.

This lack of realistic assessment has caused massive damage to both brands...........damage that may be permanent for one and longstanding for the other............................

Whilst not a Rossi fan I have to say he has achieved some pretty incredible things, and yes he always had the support of whatever factory he rode for, the best crew and so on.



Valentino is used to winning or being close to the pointy end so this period is tough for him and qualifying 13th is terrible, shades of Melandri all over again. I cannot see that he would retire now, and the change to 1000cc is what he is hanging on for at present, it was quoted that 2011 is 17 development rides for him. He jumped on a bike that a lot of people bet he would instantly master and has not gone even close, his only podium was a huge luck in for him as it was only a case of everyone in front falling off to get him there.



He will not want to be remembered as the guy that jumped on Casey's bike, tried and failed then left with his tail between his legs, he jumped on the Yamaha when it was crap and made it a world beater, it is just that the challenge is a little more steep this time, both he and JB are getting older so it is a last ditch attempt but he will continue to try to get a handle on that ridiculous motorcycle.



Don't be surprised if in this probable wet race that he pulls something out of the bag, he has shown a surprising turn of speed on the Ducati when its wet.



I am not a Rossi fan and whilst I believe he was sometimes overrated I think it is also somewhat foolhardy to underestimate as well. He may not be the goat in my opinion but nor can anyone scoff at his achievements and write them off to luck or support or anything else other than a prodigious talent.



I have said previously that the Rossi aura wasn't shattered by Hayden in '06, or Stoner in '07 but by Lorenzo in '10 on the same bike. At this time it was shown that one of the young fast guys could relegate him to being the number 2 rider on a team. He is good but not a God. But he is good enough to stage a comeback, win races and who knows even a championship again.

Andy ,Squiggle its a bit weird when we have to give moral support to suicidal Rossi fans.



A year ago this would have been seen as an unlikely parallel universe.

Rossi to retire? bloody hell i wouldn't go that far. If only he had swallowed his pride and stayed with Yamaha....... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Mr Squiggle said:

I think its a bit unfair to kick a man when hes down but you do make some valid points.



Valentino is without a doubt one of the all time greats...I consider him in the same league as Doohan and Rainey but he isnt the GOAT (I have never agreed with this bopper inspired title anyway). This has been shown since his move to Ducati...he needs a refined package to ride to his full potential and the Ducati most certainly doesn't fit that criteria. I also don't believe he is past his best but rather his approach so far this year has been tentative after his recent injuries and when combined with the recalcitrant Ducati it is probably beginning to negatively affect his pysche....maybe Duc have already booked him in to see Melandris shrink for a quick diagnostic.



Stoner is a freak...an anomaly. I have never seen a rider able to hop on a machine and go warp speed like he does....and he can do it without really having dialed in the bike which I believe is a unique quality only he is able to achieve. I think finally this year he will get the cudos he richly deserves. He has been on the brunt of much hatred and vitriol regarding his talent and abilities. I believe his tenure at Ducati eventually affected his health and the "mystery illness" was just a psychosomatic reaction to the stress of having to push that bike to the limit week in week out....the "fishing trip" was a release valve that allowed him to regain focus and again push to get the poles/wins only he has achieved on a bike no one else has come close to taming....that speaks volumes about his abilities as a rider.

Click to expand...

The only other guy I've ever seen get a bike on the pace within one lap was Matt Mladin, it's something he has a reputation for just like Casey. As far as Rossi is concerned I don't see this season having a huge impact on him or his psyche the machine is going through a lot of changes and every now and then a slice of humble pie does us good. This has just been a terrible weekend for them but I expect them to bounce back and keep slowly moving forward until they get to a point where spending any more money on this years bike will stop and all effort will be set for next year. They supposedly have a lateral damper coming next year and that should make things interesting if they get it to work and with next years WSBK getting the same chassis as the GP bike I think they might have found something if they're confident enough to expand the use of the chassis that's taken so much blame for the bike not turning. I'm not sure if Rossi is past his peak yet but I'm sure he could at least still compete for a spot on the podium if he was still on the yam. I'm glad Honda have shown their hand this year because now everybody knows what they have to do next year to be competitive and give us some good racing.

Badfish said:

Rossi to retire? bloody hell i wouldn't go that far. If only he had swallowed his pride and stayed with Yamaha....... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Click to expand...

Rossi has always managed to burn his bridges, he bitched about Honda, then about Yamaha prior to leaving.



Ego is a problem his going to have to overcome this year and if he burns Ducati then Suzuki will be relishing their opportunity to take him on.



If he fails at Ducati he will not retire, his ego will not let him walk out quietly.





















It isn't really moral support Bunyip

gui22a said:

Do you have the source?

Click to expand...

Here you go, the first time I read about it was on a site devoted to racing, just don't remember which one though, but there are a few sites with details and opinions if you search.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/rumors/2012-ducati-superbike-20-hp20-lbs/

I'll try to get the info on the lateral damper as well, this is the most interesting news to me as it seems the Japanese have given up on getting it to work on a motorcycle so if Ducati can do it that would be a huge accomplishment for them.

hawkdriver said:

The only other guy I've ever seen get a bike on the pace within one lap was Matt Mladin, it's something he has a reputation for just like Casey. As far as Rossi is concerned I don't see this season having a huge impact on him or his psyche the machine is going through a lot of changes and every now and then a slice of humble pie does us good. This has just been a terrible weekend for them but I expect them to bounce back and keep slowly moving forward until they get to a point where spending any more money on this years bike will stop and all effort will be set for next year. They supposedly have a lateral damper coming next year and that should make things interesting if they get it to work and with next years WSBK getting the same chassis as the GP bike I think they might have found something if they're confident enough to expand the use of the chassis that's taken so much blame for the bike not turning. I'm not sure if Rossi is past his peak yet but I'm sure he could at least still compete for a spot on the podium if he was still on the yam. I'm glad Honda have shown their hand this year because now everybody knows what they have to do next year to be competitive and give us some good racing.

Click to expand...

According to J4rno Mike the Bike Hailwood was apparently similar to stoner, apart from obviously being more successful than stoner has been thus far, in that he could ride fast on anything but his competitors benefited more from a good bike. Stoner seems similar in regard to the latter aspect as well, with jorge and simoncelli etc substantially faster on the softer presumably higher grip tyres but stoner usually being little faster than on the hard tyre. Perhaps his sliding of the bike in a controlled fashion on a hard tyre is integral to his pace as well as being pretty to watch.



Rossi will be a strong contender for the title next year, if ducati have to switch to an aluminium twin-spar chassis and a narrower angle V4 they will. If the current device is sufficiently vicious as to wear down valentino rossi in addition to casey stoner, it is ducati who have the problem, valentino rossi's enormous talent being unlikely to have suddenly disappeared. If the thing is still liable to let go without warning and without error discernible by anyone most of all the rider (which was always stoner's complaint, derided though he was for it), this is what can't be dealt with by anyone, and stoner fairly obviously only won on it latterly because he is somewhat crazy, which valentino is not.