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Welcome to the forum mtorn. With a response like this u can make it around here. Btw dont listen to MickDick. Hes just a .....
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First post.
I am not going to go into specifics about MotoGP, but I am going to point a few things out:
Money has become the sole motivator for more and more human beings the world over in the past few decades.
People used to consider honor and integrity. Now they consider risk VS reward.
People used to consider whether or not they should do something. Now they consider whether or not they can get away with it.
If you consider the direction human culture and thinking has been going over the last few decades, cast out all of your notions and biases, I think you will find that it requires a rather large leap of faith to think that Dorna HASN'T done many unscrupulous things in their pursuit of $$$.
I am not going to go into specifics about MotoGP, but I am going to point a few things out:
Money has become the sole motivator for more and more human beings the world over in the past few decades.
People used to consider honor and integrity. Now they consider risk VS reward.
People used to consider whether or not they should do something. Now they consider whether or not they can get away with it.
If you consider the direction human culture and thinking has been going over the last few decades, cast out all of your notions and biases, I think you will find that it requires a rather large leap of faith to think that Dorna HASN'T done many unscrupulous things in their pursuit of $$$.
Rocket Knight
Dorna bought into the sport for tuppins, and they were riding on a gravvy train until 2006, when European courts forced CVC to sell their stake in MotoGP's commercial rights. That was the peak of the credit bubble, and Bridgepoint (new buyer) has probably been burned by MotoGP's lack of cash flow, hence they sold part of the sport to a Canadian pension fund.
If you want to know why people do whatever they can get away with, it's called credit. When your money is spent before you earn it, you'll do anything to get out from under the oppression of a mortgage or school debt or credit cards. It's not just excessive consumer credit or corporate credit that cause problems. Governments are deeply in hock, spending billions/trillions on pension and health programs that have no viable economic model. Wing and a prayer policy-making, and they will do whatever it takes to thwart all reforms and keep the bureaucracy in tact.
Dorna bought into the sport for tuppins, and they were riding on a gravvy train until 2006, when European courts forced CVC to sell their stake in MotoGP's commercial rights. That was the peak of the credit bubble, and Bridgepoint (new buyer) has probably been burned by MotoGP's lack of cash flow, hence they sold part of the sport to a Canadian pension fund.
If you want to know why people do whatever they can get away with, it's called credit. When your money is spent before you earn it, you'll do anything to get out from under the oppression of a mortgage or school debt or credit cards. It's not just excessive consumer credit or corporate credit that cause problems. Governments are deeply in hock, spending billions/trillions on pension and health programs that have no viable economic model. Wing and a prayer policy-making, and they will do whatever it takes to thwart all reforms and keep the bureaucracy in tact.
mylexicon
No doubt they are interested in making the sport more profitable, particularly if debt is involved.
I don't believe that they have manipulated race results. I think they have actively promoted various riders into the premier class, sometimes because of their nationality and potential to add interest to the sport; Casey Stoner is one rider for whom they did this, including it was rumoured subsidising LCR's entry to the premier class. I think most of the technical rules they have had the decision on have been well intended, if not necessarily a good idea in themselves. Whether or how much they may have persuaded Bridgestone for 2008 or Yamaha for this year regarding Valentino Rossi I don't know, but both may have required little persuasion
I do think Marc Marquez got off lightly for some practice incidents prior to this year; this is independent of his quality as a rider.
No doubt they are interested in making the sport more profitable, particularly if debt is involved.
I don't believe that they have manipulated race results. I think they have actively promoted various riders into the premier class, sometimes because of their nationality and potential to add interest to the sport; Casey Stoner is one rider for whom they did this, including it was rumoured subsidising LCR's entry to the premier class. I think most of the technical rules they have had the decision on have been well intended, if not necessarily a good idea in themselves. Whether or how much they may have persuaded Bridgestone for 2008 or Yamaha for this year regarding Valentino Rossi I don't know, but both may have required little persuasion
I do think Marc Marquez got off lightly for some practice incidents prior to this year; this is independent of his quality as a rider.
michaelm
The competition is legitimate, and this weekend demonstrates the futility of trying to rig seasons. Motorcycle racing is too unpredictable over the course of a season, though the races have become somewhat processional.
Overall, I think Dorna do a decent job protecting the integrity of the sport. We have the one major blemish with Rossi and Bridgestone in 2008, which created the perception of a grand conspiracy. Beyond that, few problems over the years.
The competition is legitimate, and this weekend demonstrates the futility of trying to rig seasons. Motorcycle racing is too unpredictable over the course of a season, though the races have become somewhat processional.
Overall, I think Dorna do a decent job protecting the integrity of the sport. We have the one major blemish with Rossi and Bridgestone in 2008, which created the perception of a grand conspiracy. Beyond that, few problems over the years.
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mylexicon
Dude, they changed the "Rooki Rule" right about the same year Marc Marquez was moving up to the premier class. Coincidence?
Dude, they changed the "Rooki Rule" right about the same year Marc Marquez was moving up to the premier class. Coincidence?
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Mic D was well into his 30s and way more beat up when he won his last championships. Anything is possible
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SuperShinya56
They had already exempted Suzuki from the rookie rule so Bautista could ride. It was a stupid temporary rule to keep IRTA afloat during the darkest days of the global credit meltdown. Neither its passage nor its repeal were scandalous. It was a mark of desperate times and a peace offering to keep IRTA at bay.
The Rossi tire situation was much more scandalous on the surface of things. The GPC held 3-4 months of emergency tire meetings, and the only visible change was Rossi to Bridgestone. That's proper scandal material, unless you're Talpa, in which case you ignore any potential scandals pertaining to Rossi and then you gasp at the "unexpected" fallout.
They had already exempted Suzuki from the rookie rule so Bautista could ride. It was a stupid temporary rule to keep IRTA afloat during the darkest days of the global credit meltdown. Neither its passage nor its repeal were scandalous. It was a mark of desperate times and a peace offering to keep IRTA at bay.
The Rossi tire situation was much more scandalous on the surface of things. The GPC held 3-4 months of emergency tire meetings, and the only visible change was Rossi to Bridgestone. That's proper scandal material, unless you're Talpa, in which case you ignore any potential scandals pertaining to Rossi and then you gasp at the "unexpected" fallout.
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If you don't think we've degenerated more and more as a race in terms of morals and thus, the extent we will go to to achieve an ends to our means you're just freefalling with society and thus unable to realize the extent of the moral corruption in recent times.
People were a lot better as individuals and a lot more honest in general in the 1950's than they are today, for example.
People were a lot better as individuals and a lot more honest in general in the 1950's than they are today, for example.
