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cliché guevara
as opposed to your stellar spanner in the works, over exuberant annoying schoolboy ,hand in the air ooo ooo ooo pick me teacher ,posts
as opposed to your stellar spanner in the works, over exuberant annoying schoolboy ,hand in the air ooo ooo ooo pick me teacher ,posts
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Kropotkin
Huh?
Do you not remember Dorna constantly trying to sabotage Stoner so God could win? 2008 Bridgestone tyres? 2012 Bridgestone tyres and weight increases? We have clearly blamed Dorna for Stoner doing poorly. If you are going to get all high and mighty and be too snootty for conspiracy theories at least get your argument correct?
A conspiracy is simply a version of events that is different to what authority has said happened. Having never met a person in authority who is not totally in it for the money or some other selfish reason I mostly think there is a pretty good chance the authority's story has been manipulated to deflect blame or responsibility.
The simple version is Rossi makes Dorna money, Stoner/Lorenzo/Pedrosa/Gibernau/Melandri etc costs Dorna money. Not hard to see where Dorna's intent may lie.
Huh?
Do you not remember Dorna constantly trying to sabotage Stoner so God could win? 2008 Bridgestone tyres? 2012 Bridgestone tyres and weight increases? We have clearly blamed Dorna for Stoner doing poorly. If you are going to get all high and mighty and be too snootty for conspiracy theories at least get your argument correct?
A conspiracy is simply a version of events that is different to what authority has said happened. Having never met a person in authority who is not totally in it for the money or some other selfish reason I mostly think there is a pretty good chance the authority's story has been manipulated to deflect blame or responsibility.
The simple version is Rossi makes Dorna money, Stoner/Lorenzo/Pedrosa/Gibernau/Melandri etc costs Dorna money. Not hard to see where Dorna's intent may lie.
Arrabbiata1
Blue Smoker
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cliché guevara
Please don't mention that
Please don't mention that
Mental Anarchist
2012: the tires and weight increases had nothing to do with Stoner. I have explained before - and been accused of being a Dorna shill and lying to blacken Honda's reputation - that Honda stitched up the MSMA meeting when the 160kg weight increase was agreed, telling the GPC that the MSMA meeting had rejected it unanimously, when Ducati had voted in favor of it. Dorna had every right to increase the minimum weight to 160kg, but they didn't, they increased it first to 157kg and then to 160kg. The tires were changed to assist safety, and to assist the CRTs.
The 2012 changes being directly aimed at hindering Stoner is exactly the kind of paranoid ........ that I am talking about. Why Stoner? Maybe Dorna didn't want Dani to win?
2008 - clearly, that was Rossi pressuring Yamaha, Bridgestone and Dorna for tires which would allow him to fight with Stoner. Yes, that was interference. Of course, tires don't win races by themselves, but that's a separate issue.
2012: the tires and weight increases had nothing to do with Stoner. I have explained before - and been accused of being a Dorna shill and lying to blacken Honda's reputation - that Honda stitched up the MSMA meeting when the 160kg weight increase was agreed, telling the GPC that the MSMA meeting had rejected it unanimously, when Ducati had voted in favor of it. Dorna had every right to increase the minimum weight to 160kg, but they didn't, they increased it first to 157kg and then to 160kg. The tires were changed to assist safety, and to assist the CRTs.
The 2012 changes being directly aimed at hindering Stoner is exactly the kind of paranoid ........ that I am talking about. Why Stoner? Maybe Dorna didn't want Dani to win?
Kropotkin
Thank you.
That and the tunnel vision led belief that somehow Rossi wields more power than Honda/Yamaha combined. If Rossi had won the WC in 2007, around here it would be claimed that they moved to 800cc so that he could win again.
Thank you.
That and the tunnel vision led belief that somehow Rossi wields more power than Honda/Yamaha combined. If Rossi had won the WC in 2007, around here it would be claimed that they moved to 800cc so that he could win again.
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Krops, look, as I said u are mostly right because u do get ur info from ur excellent reporting. But sir, u like anybody else, even the best of us (and as u say we got a few diamonds here) suffer from bias (to different degrees). Ur not immune. AND this forum isnt any more peculiar than any other space INCLUDING the GP paddock. Les u forget some Moto2 competitors also accused ur live child Marky of "cheating". And by ur own admission 08 was clearly Dorna pressuring Bstones in favor of VR. So only ur conspiracy theories are valid, ah got it. Kinda like that wall at Mugello, only unsafe until Marc decided to crash there (or was it a save, I forget).
Now buddy, there are not that many conspiracy theorists here. We number a few. We dont all subscribe to the same conspiracies though and perhaps this is where u get the impression we are all a bunch of paranoids while u are the keeper of the truth. For example Lex asserted Dorna ushered VRs move to Ducati to aid their competitiveness. Where he got this out of thin air is beyond me given the well documented disgruntled Italian. Also, i didnt bother to respond to Michaelm (and here Mentals) regarding the 2012 tire/weight change conspiracy because I refuted it all last year. I actually contended exactly what u said above. But here is my point, Dorna has written regulations in chalk to "adjust" the on track result. U may not realize it but ur refuting ONE conspiracy for ANOTHER! I argued last year the tire change was aimed at CRTs because they were embarrassingly uncompetitive. Conveniently it also hindered Stoner. Now, what did Dorna claim for the change behind the tires?! Im not gonna spell it out for u, but certainly u will not find a press release that says the following: 'Bridgestone: effective immediately, on Dorna's behest we have changed the tires to make the ........ grid filler CRTs appear more competitive. However we think this might curmudgeon the prototype teams. We have suggested to Dorna they simply allow for a special tire dispensation to CRTs, however they have decided to implement our suggestion for 2013 but for 2012 we will go with this new tire.'
Now tell me Krops, u say Dorna didn't aim to .... Stoner they just wanted to "help" the CRTs. Is not this also conspiracy!? Or must conspiracy only be limited to ....... people over but when its done to "help" (as during the FUC era to 'Facilitate') then its ok?
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Jumkie
Jum, if there is someone who got, and still gets, everything wrong here is you, "amigo". But since you always get it wrong, how could you know it...
Ducati Corse have not done anything more "for Rossi" than they are doing now "for Dovi". Probably what hurts you is that they have always pretty much ignored the greatest rider of all times (great in your view at least) sitting in a corner of their garage. I understand your feelings, but you should get over it.
Jum, if there is someone who got, and still gets, everything wrong here is you, "amigo". But since you always get it wrong, how could you know it...
Ducati Corse have not done anything more "for Rossi" than they are doing now "for Dovi". Probably what hurts you is that they have always pretty much ignored the greatest rider of all times (great in your view at least) sitting in a corner of their garage. I understand your feelings, but you should get over it.
Jumkie
I believe that Dorna move Rossi around like a highly-paid pawn (Burgess to a similar extent) b/c that's what executives in billion dollars sports empires are paid to do. They are paid to exert control over an industry, and they are rarely reluctant to exercise power or to remind others they have it, like when Ezpeleta remind the MSMA and the world that the tire regulations were not covered in the "Concorde" agreement. When Lebron James left Cleveland, it was common knowledge that the NBA were meddling behind the scenes to put him in a major market in a competitive organization within the Eastern or Western time zone (preferably Eastern with a much bigger TV market). It should be common knowledge that Dorna are finagling in rider movements. We have finally come to accept that they pay teams to hire riders with the appropriate passport. Now Dorna openly contemplate a quota system on Spanish riders.
In this thread, I didn't even insist on "conspiracy". I simply proposed that readers assume that Dorna play an active role in Rossi's career movements (or lack thereof; F1, WRC, WSBK). Then I requested that they examine Rossi's assigments. He has twice been moved from a dominant manufacturer to a troubled institution. The only blatant favoritism was the Bridgestone deal in 2008, but as I have pointed out, Bridgestone could actually have been supportive of Rossi's jump. If they were indeed handicapped by new regulations ratified during the 2007 emergency tire meetings, they would happily have taken on Rossi as a hedge against the might of Honda and Yamaha who were still developing Michelin equipment.
I believe that Dorna move Rossi around like a highly-paid pawn (Burgess to a similar extent) b/c that's what executives in billion dollars sports empires are paid to do. They are paid to exert control over an industry, and they are rarely reluctant to exercise power or to remind others they have it, like when Ezpeleta remind the MSMA and the world that the tire regulations were not covered in the "Concorde" agreement. When Lebron James left Cleveland, it was common knowledge that the NBA were meddling behind the scenes to put him in a major market in a competitive organization within the Eastern or Western time zone (preferably Eastern with a much bigger TV market). It should be common knowledge that Dorna are finagling in rider movements. We have finally come to accept that they pay teams to hire riders with the appropriate passport. Now Dorna openly contemplate a quota system on Spanish riders.
In this thread, I didn't even insist on "conspiracy". I simply proposed that readers assume that Dorna play an active role in Rossi's career movements (or lack thereof; F1, WRC, WSBK). Then I requested that they examine Rossi's assigments. He has twice been moved from a dominant manufacturer to a troubled institution. The only blatant favoritism was the Bridgestone deal in 2008, but as I have pointed out, Bridgestone could actually have been supportive of Rossi's jump. If they were indeed handicapped by new regulations ratified during the 2007 emergency tire meetings, they would happily have taken on Rossi as a hedge against the might of Honda and Yamaha who were still developing Michelin equipment.
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havent they just built a completely new bike that pirro has been riding? they just offered that bike to hayden and dovi after the last test didnt they? im sure i read they have a new donk to go in it too. sounds like full steam ahead to me man.
digger
Yes, which is already under 2 more chassis revisions.......moving heaven and earth
Dovi even has another test rider. Not too much comment here on this, unless he beats Rossi, and then it's look at Dovi beating Rossi
As for the hordes of yellow clown boppers, well they ain't here krop, they're only seems to be two or three here that bother to be pro Rossi, and we're only here for a good laugh, which PS does deliver in spades, and the occasional decent debate
The rossi fans are out there paying for the subscriptions and turning up to the events and watching the broadcasts, probably keeping the series in the black allowing it to function at the level it does so a lot of the 'clowns' here have something to discuss........
Speaking of clowns, 21 million this year, I know who's really laughing
Yes, which is already under 2 more chassis revisions.......moving heaven and earth
Dovi even has another test rider. Not too much comment here on this, unless he beats Rossi, and then it's look at Dovi beating Rossi
As for the hordes of yellow clown boppers, well they ain't here krop, they're only seems to be two or three here that bother to be pro Rossi, and we're only here for a good laugh, which PS does deliver in spades, and the occasional decent debate
The rossi fans are out there paying for the subscriptions and turning up to the events and watching the broadcasts, probably keeping the series in the black allowing it to function at the level it does so a lot of the 'clowns' here have something to discuss........
Speaking of clowns, 21 million this year, I know who's really laughing
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21 million probably doesn't come close to the profit Dorna is seeing this year...he's making pennies.
Jumkie
Here, there are between 15 and 20 people all talking to one another.
The size of the echo chamber tends to influence the amount of group think that happens. The smaller the group, the more closed the thinking, as a rule.
The difference between the paddock and this forum is that in the paddock, there are a couple of thousand people, most of whom have conflicting interests, all trying to spin a story in a particular direction. There is so much conflicting information that stories tend to get straightened out quickly. Dorna's manipulation is quickly exposed, and accusations of manipulation usually countered by other teams, factories, riders, organizations.
Here, there are between 15 and 20 people all talking to one another.
The size of the echo chamber tends to influence the amount of group think that happens. The smaller the group, the more closed the thinking, as a rule.
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True. I should say major full court press development has ceased, they said they were going with small incremental improvement. And at first they were saying riders were gonna work on set up to improve. Certainly not the heaven and earth movements for VR. When last interviewed and asked about the big changes coming for Duc, their principal said 'I dont know where these rumors come from'.
