Thank You God for Stoner and Ducati

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 5 2008, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Then just wait that Simoncelli arrives... He's already 100% MotoGP-ready and could even become the heir of Valentino Rossi
After watching him bully his way around in this last race, I think you may be right. Frankly, I like the aggression, I just wish people were aggressive right back.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Oct 6 2008, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It isn't totally Stoners fault that he lost the title this year just as it isn't all to Rossi's credit that he won. Good and bad luck played a big part but it was going to be one or the other as no one else is in the same league. Hayden had the balls to take on the pnuematic engine project where Puig/Pedro played safe and complained about tires. No way to win if you ask me.

I fully agree that without Stoner the last 2 years would be pretty boring and predictable. Maybe if Rossi had won the title every year since '01 he would've left the series already.

As much as I thank God for giving us Stoner, I think he lost his title this year not because of bad luck but because he crashed in some key races. Now if we call crashing 'bad luck' in this sport, then Hayden didn't win in 2006 thanks to his consistency, but it is Rossi who lost because of his 'bad luck'... We don't want to go down that path...

So I would not call a rider's crash bad luck unless it is caused by some mechanical failure or track accident. I rather call it a mistake... And mistakes are one's faults. Especially when one is actually lapping faster.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 7 2008, 08:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>After watching him bully his way around in this last race, I think you may be right. Frankly, I like the aggression, I just wish people were aggressive right back.

I seem to remember only a race or two ago Bautista rattling Simoncelli's cage and Marco had a big sook about it.

I think Marco is great but the motogp class is a great equalizer. Lorenzo didn’t fare as well the year the raced against Stoner and Pedrosa in the 250’s but dominated when they left and is roughly the same age.

Marco has some talent but I believe Bautista has the same sort of aggression and skill and will make just as big a mark on the field. Actually I considered the ride of Bautista to be the equal of Simoncelli on the weekend because Marco dominated everything until race day. He still won but couldn't shake his tail so to speak.

When the pair of them arrive in motogp it will be great, I just wouldn't be suprised if Bautista does the Stoner and usurps the guy who beat him in the 250's.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Oct 6 2008, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We all know Rossi felt sorry for Stoner and gave him the win. Rossi couldn't bare the thought of demoralizing Stoner again in front of his home crowd.

Frankly, I didnt understand the point of this comment... You sure you're answering my post?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Oct 7 2008, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>................
When the pair of them arrive in motogp it will be great, I just wouldn't be suprised if Bautista does the Stoner and usurps the guy who beat him in the 250's.

Yep. Agree about Bautista, but I would still put my 5$ on Simoncelli if I had to choose between the two. What these young riders will actually do in MotoGP, will of course depend on the kind of mount they'll find... Anyway the need for at least 1 year of apprenticeship seems to hold in MotoGP, as Lorenzo has showed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 6 2008, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>After watching him bully his way around in this last race, I think you may be right. Frankly, I like the aggression, I just wish people were aggressive right back.
Most of us Italians are aggressive but most people can't take it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Oct 6 2008, 04:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>stoner lost rossi won, live with it ! i sometimes wonder if you are tom with 2 accounts, you both talk the same .....

The 'Stoner Lost' argument seems to be a constant theme so let me ask, did Stoner lose the world title or did Valentino win it?

IMO, to say Stoner lost indicates a disservice to the year that Rossi has had and the issues he has had to overcome with the changes to tyres etc.

In 2008 Valentino Rossi won the World Title fair and square by being the best rider on the best package in the field across the entire season (to date). No ifs, buts or maybes, that is the way it has been.

Stoner himself has said that his accidents which resulted in the 2 x DNF's ended his chances and personally I do think he is correct. You cannot drop 50 points to a rider like Rossi, one who is just so damn consistent at finishing a race and expect to remain competitive across a year.

IMO, the only losers in 2008 are the likes of those riders without rides for 2009 (and even then I qualify the 'loser' tag) or those who have not perfromed to standard expectations this year (and again, that is a qualified loser statement).

I have posted previously and I stand by the comment that without the likes of Stoner and the newer younger guys together with the 2006/7 championship results the Rossi fans would most likely be watching Rallying in order top support their man. They (and we) should all be thankful that Rossi did not win the titles as he and Stoner (to date) have raised the racing to another level of sheer speed, skill and spectacle (forget the processional complains and just watch the artisty fort he bikes/rider in motion).




Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Oct 6 2008, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>At least Stoner can win a race instead of just parade around like Shitya. Plus Stoner will have a ride for 09 unlike No-kan-doo.


Wow and this type of BS is so much more mature than a few stupid motavation pics

Pratice what you preach man

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Oct 6 2008, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I do think that if you do the maths then Stoners DNFs in Brno and Misano did far more harm to his championship chances than bike issues in the early part of the season. If Stoner had finished ahead of Rossi in those two races (admittedly not guaranteed) then the points would be Rossi 322 to Stoner 295 now and it'd all be still to play for the next race.

All better finishes at the start of the season would have done was make his championship bid last longer it surely wouldn't have guaranteed him the win. The championship would have lasted potentially until the second last race instead of the boring way it played out 5 races from the end. Especially relative since it is likely that this is the end of the great MotoGP era.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 6 2008, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As much as I thank God for giving us Stoner, I think he lost his title this year not because of bad luck but because he crashed in some key races. Now if we call crashing 'bad luck' in this sport, then Hayden didn't win in 2006 thanks to his consistency, but it is Rossi who lost because of his 'bad luck'... We don't want to go down that path...

So I would not call a rider's crash bad luck unless it is caused by some mechanical failure or track accident. I rather call it a mistake... And mistakes are one's faults. Especially when one is actually lapping faster.

Good points.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Oct 7 2008, 01:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Most of us Italians are aggressive but most people can't take it.

Actually the most aggressive (and with a real bag of tricks!) 'school' in motorcycling GP is, traditionally, the Spanish one.
With Pedrobot as the one exception...
And, currently, Barbera as the best example .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 6 2008, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yep. Agree about Bautista, but I would still put my 5$ on Simoncelli if I had to choose between the two. What these young riders will actually do in MotoGP, will of course depend on the kind of mount they'll find... Anyway the need for at least 1 year of apprenticeship seems to hold in MotoGP, as Lorenzo has showed.

Simoncelli will be brought into Yamaha with Rossi's influence, when Lorenzo takes Pedros spot at Honda........IMO!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mr-brightside @ Oct 8 2008, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Simoncelli will be brought into Yamaha with Rossi's influence, when Lorenzo takes Pedros spot at Honda........IMO!

If Pedro enters into a phase of depression and premature decline--realizing that he will probably never win a title in MotoGP, crushed as he is between a still strong Rossi and many strong new entries--then this could definitely be a possibility. Most probably this is what Rossi would have liked in the first place (he wanted Yamaha to 'wait' a bit more before hiring a younger 'successor').

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 8 2008, 10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Actually the most aggressive (and with a real bag of tricks!) 'school' in motorcycling GP is, traditionally, the Spanish one.
With Pedrobot as the one exception...
And, currently, Barbera as the best example .

I don't know if I would call Barbera's form of racing aggressive, more like moronic. Bautista I would say is a better example, he is very aggressive and most of the time it works, but occasionally he pays for it with mistakes that send him back a few places.

I think Simoncelli has been learning a lot from his good friend Rossi lately, his race at PI showed some real knowledge of blocking all chance of passing. Bautista's post race interview pretty much confirmed that he simply couldn't get past Simoncelli. Although Simoncelli's aggressiveness has gotten the best of him too with some costly mistakes here and there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Oct 8 2008, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't know if I would call Barbera's form of racing aggressive, more like moronic. Bautista I would say is a better example, he is very aggressive and most of the time it works, but occasionally he pays for it with mistakes that send him back a few places.

I think Simoncelli has been learning a lot from his good friend Rossi lately, his race at PI showed some real knowledge of blocking all chance of passing. Bautista's post race interview pretty much confirmed that he simply couldn't get past Simoncelli. Although Simoncelli's aggressiveness has gotten the best of him too with some costly mistakes here and there.

Agree... Simoncelli is growing like a younger Rossi. Marco doesn't have Rossi's strong mind, but is more physical. Very fast. Bautista is a good match. The duel we saw in 250 could have been an appetizer for what we could have seen in MotoGP, had Rossi started in front rather than in the fourth row. P.I. lends itself to real racing, it's probably the most beautiful motorcycle track in the world. I think Casey woud have won anyway this time, but only at the last lap... Too bad the duel didn't materialize.

Glad to be back [@ ‘Introductions’ Reply from me].

I don´t know, so here it goes… I think Rossi never showed [All season and PI too] his cards completely, just enough to give and get a fight, or as he says, “great battle for sure”. I mean, already had the Championship in the bag, and could have tried to catch the lead, but instead started to get to know new and future opponents [Toseland in this case]. And why not, give in one Championship worthless win getting a second place, but really play it with your head ‘sizing up opponents’ instead!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 12 2008, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Glad to be back [@ ‘Introductions’ Reply from me].

I don´t know, so here it goes… I think Rossi never showed [All season and PI too] his cards completely, just enough to give and get a fight, or as he says, “great battle for sure”. I mean, already had the Championship in the bag, and could have tried to catch the lead, but instead started to get to know new and future opponents [Toseland in this case]. And why not, give in one Championship worthless win getting a second place, but really play it with your head ‘sizing up opponents’ instead!

It's an interesting take, given that Rossi has said it was his best and hardest season. I think once Casey came back with the three wins up to mid season break then after this there was no fudging by Rossi and the ride at Laguna showed that he was on the absolute edge and pulling everything out for the win.

Rossi settle for 2nd?

Don't think so, and I've always argued that too many guys in the field settle willingly for 2nd against Rossi, he is Rossi not one of the also rans so I can't really see it.

Also there is a barrier, the "4 win barrier" that no one bar Casey has every achieved (irrespective of the championship outcome) against Rossi and Rossi isn't going to give wins away and let the argument stand that "well Casey did win a heap of races". This was the anti Nicki argument that ran after 2006 because he won with consistency and only two race wins.

If Casey wins another race or even two races then the wins are going to be pretty close and little factors like the lack of a decent teammate for Casey or the tyre wars and the “Ducati betrayal” will devalue Rossi’s championship.

Nope, Rossi (being Rossi) would not only want to win, but win the greatest number of races on the way to the championship. He never slowed down any other year after the champioship was in the bag.

Rossi obviously won the 2008 championship very well. Even accepting set up and/or tyre woes and a mechanical dnf equivalent for casey earlier, and presumed physical impairment later in the season, at laguna seca and brno when the championship was still in play and casey was arguably on a faster bike valentino delivered in spades. There is no point making excuses in any case, except for circumstances totally beyond the rider's or team's control such as being taken out by another rider's error.

One of rossi's greatest attributes is that he is a pure racer, and over his career has tried to win nearly every race regardless of circumstances. If he has not done it this year I would actually take it as a sign of respect to the competition, although to me he looked pretty keen to win in the 5 races before PI. I don't think even he, strategist though he is, would deliberately crash as he did in practice at PI for tactical or strategic advantage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Oct 11 2008, 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nope, Rossi (being Rossi) would not only want to win, but win the greatest number of races on the way to the championship. He never slowed down any other year after the champioship was in the bag.

Hello Roo, I was not saying he did not want to win, but he has always been known to play it with his head too, more so at Qualy with his head on the dirt in this case.

So if he found himself starting from 12 at very well known to Stoner’s fast flowing track, he definitely was going to try to win, but after getting rid of 10 riders still needed a scorching pace to do the trick. Why not change strategy at mid race and use it as best suits you? At Laguna Seca he did not have the Championship in the bag, in fact, still was far from having it secured, so going for a win at a track with no wins was a most there. However, at the Island? I am pretty sure he used his head twice!

Back at Qatar [Gibernau’s curse] it would have been incredible for Rossi to win from last spot [second to last because of Biagi], but what Rossi did achieve back then was just a tantrum, of course we (fans) loved it!

I still have to disagree (respectfully).

Vale chased Nicki and caught him on the last lap, in his post race he states that he had some difficulty passing JT (good on him, great ride by JT) and then saw Nicki in the distance and set this as his marker for the race.

He knew that the win was gone, he still rode as hard as he good to get 2nd on the last lap. I don't think he fudged at anytime. I was sitting trackside watching him go and he was pretty intent on catching Nicki.

It took him to the end of the race and that's what he did for the duration of the race (race that is).

No one said he had the C'ship won at Laguna but he needed to break Stoners winning streak, just as Casey needed to break Vale's winning streak at P.I. I'm pretty sure that all the riders were thinking of the race including Vale and that he used his head is not unique, but something they all did and yes he is bloody good at it.

I still don't think that he had a mid race relaxation time then calculated perfectly how to catch Nicki last lap. He may be the G.O.A.T but I think Nicki and James deserve a little more credit than being relegated to the roles of unwitting pawns in Vale's master plan to come 2nd at P.I...