Thank You God for Stoner and Ducati

(This post can be a partial spoiler, do not read it if you haven't seen the race yet )

While watching the P.I. race, I was thinking... "Look, just take Stoner and his red Ducati out of the scene, and we would have the same Rossi absolute domination we've had since 2001".

Rossi is great and I admire him, but I also love to see some serious competition in the field.
Think that even now, with these 800cc and electronics etc., Rossi could still crash during QP, start 12th from the grid and win--but for Stoner.

Stoner and his Ducati have spoilt that potential scene for Rossi in the last two seasons but have made and are making the whole WC really fascinating and interesting. I think deep down Rossi too likes it better like this. He has recently acknowledged Stoner as a great champion and the toughest contender he ever met.

Otherwise, we would have to content ourselves with commenting Rossi's solo greatness, enjoying his scything through the fields and his final inevitable passes on Pedrobot or others.
Like this instead, thanks to Stoner, it is much better. And we are assured that as long as he races, the Doctor will have to be at his very best.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 5 2008, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi is great and I admire him, but I also love to see some serious competition in the field.
Think that even now, with these 800cc and electronics etc., Rossi could still crash during QP, start 12th from the grid and win--but for Stoner.

Stoner and his Ducati have spoilt that potential scene for Rossi in the last two seasons but have made and are making the whole WC really fascinating and interesting. I think deep down Rossi too likes it better like this. He has recently acknowledged Stoner as a great champion and the toughest contender he ever met.
Except for Assen 2007. That was a great ride from mid pack to beat Stoner. I hear what you're saying though.

I agree with that, Stoner has been a saving grace to the sport, to those that say he made it boring last year, they really should put their fault on the manufacturers, Yamaha and Honda dropped the ball and therefore made the races boring by letting Stoner and Ducati run away with it, it was'nt Stoners fault, what was he going to do!!! Hold on and wait for them to catch up

imo had Rossi started closer to the front he may have beaten Stoner today, who knows!!
The crash yesterday denied us all what we are all longing for since Laguna, another clash from the two greatest riders on the grid atm. Since then something has stopped it from happening either one of them crashs (Ya I know mainly Stoner) or as in last week Stoners injury prevents him from pushing.

Stoner was up for it today and it would have been a great battle, hopefull it might pan out in the next few races. I sure don't want to have to wait until next season

Look at it this way. If Stoner was'nt around, not only would the last two (and you could say 3 because despite his crashs in 2006 he was exciting to watch) years would have been more boring than you can could ever imagine, that little malfunction Dani would have been the defending WC this season

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mjpartyboy @ Oct 5 2008, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Except for Assen 2007. That was a great ride from mid pack to beat Stoner. I hear what you're saying though.

They were still on different tires though... I reckon that now, on the same tires (if Lex allows me to assume they have the same tires ) Stoner is finding it much more difficult (or often impossible) to leave Rossi behind and do his disappearing act, while Rossi in turn can hardly catch him on any track, when he manages to gain an advantage.

It is another reason why I like the idea of a single tire supplier. No one will win just because his tires happen to work better on a given track...

I agree ..... matter of fct I tried to say it on this thread

http://www.powerslide.net/forum/index.php?...mp;#entry156881

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Sep 30 2008, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well as much as the Rossifans hate Stoner, or for that matter Hayden as well, you have to concede that only these guys have made Rossi step it up a notch.

Who was the benchmark Rossi had to work to for in 08? ..... and a pretty stunning benchmark it was at that, so as much as you hate Stoner ......... Rossi is only as good as he was in 08 for the sake of one rider alone

In a way I was thinking .... after years of monotony leading up to 07, it was a fantastic year:

for tyres

for bike development

for rider development

for team development

etc. etc. etc.

Stoner was a darn good influence frankly, whether you liked him or not

I have the one photo of Stoner behind Rossi from the whole weekend.

Check out the screen in the background...

You're dead right, no one apart from Stoner has ever won more than 4 races in a season against Vale and now Casey has done it twice. He's the best thing to happen in motogp since Vale actually. Real opposition.

Stoner was unbelievable guys, we were out there for morning warmup and all day he was on his own all day. At his best. Loved every second of it. I may be a fanboy (although a bald nearly 40 year old is NOT ever a fanboy really) but Vale could have started beside him today and it wouldn't have made a difference. After he left Nicki you could see him looking at the big screens while he was riding. He was in control and had a lot left in the tank. Make no mistake Vale's ride was the ducks nuts as well but the two of them were head and shoulders above the field today.

5013:MotoGP_064.JPG]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Oct 5 2008, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>....................

Look at it this way. If Stoner was'nt around, not only would the last two (and you could say 3 because despite his crashs in 2006 he was exciting to watch) years would have been more boring than you can could ever imagine, that little malfunction Dani would have been the defending WC this season

Disagree on the last one--in an hypothetical 2007 season without Stoner, Rossi would have won more races and definitely Pedrobot would never have been able to overtake him by 1 point in the last rece--never

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 5 2008, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>(This post can be a partial spoiler, do not read it if you haven't seen the race yet )

While watching the P.I. race, I was thinking... "Look, just take Stoner and his red Ducati out of the scene, and we would have the same Rossi absolute domination we've had since 2001".

Rossi is great and I admire him, but I also love to see some serious competition in the field.
Think that even now, with these 800cc and electronics etc., Rossi could still crash during QP, start 12th from the grid and win--but for Stoner.

Stoner and his Ducati have spoilt that potential scene for Rossi in the last two seasons but have made and are making the whole WC really fascinating and interesting. I think deep down Rossi too likes it better like this. He has recently acknowledged Stoner as a great champion and the toughest contender he ever met.

Otherwise, we would have to content ourselves with commenting Rossi's solo greatness, enjoying his scything through the fields and his final inevitable passes on Pedrobot or others.
Like this instead, thanks to Stoner, it is much better. And we are assured that as long as he races, the Doctor will have to be at his very best.



i agree mate its really good to see someone making rossi have to really pull it out of the bag ...im looking forward for next season all on same tyres dovi and lorenzo are gonna be up there hopefully and hayden to.

stoner has gained respect from me since laguna not just cos of the fight he put up but other things since then...like not giving up and he has matured alot recently.

yes Stoner is making it impossible for Rossi to start from like 12th and win... but lets be honest here when Rossi is on the front row Stoner can't do anything about him

Going from 12th to 2nd when the bikes are really competitive and fast is harder than it used to be.... this sport needs Rossi, he has the championship won, he had a sore head but he still wanted to get the best possible result.

Stoner also deserves credit for showing the rest of the field that you don't have to fold to Rossi's pressure not just one race but for the whole season. I honestly believe this is what Rossi would like as well. Having battles with everyone.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Oct 5 2008, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner also deserves credit for showing the rest of the field that you don't have to fold to Rossi's pressure not just one race but for the whole season. I honestly believe this is what Rossi would like as well. Having battles with everyone.
I agree, when Max crashed out of the lead front of him at Brno in 2001, Vale likened it to having a large bowl of pasta under your nose, suddenly taken away from you - in other words he was relishing the thought of finishing it. As I recall Max subsequently went on to crash in similar circumstances at Estoril and most memorably at Motegi finally ending his championship challenge- all under pressure from Rossi. He would have definitely preferred a fight to the end, in both the races and the championship as a whole.

However, I do think he enjoyed watching Sete cave in and unravel after he pledged that he'd never win race again following the 'sweeping' incident at Losail in 2004!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 5 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree ..... matter of fct I tried to say it on this thread

http://www.powerslide.net/forum/index.php?...mp;#entry156881
you only ever seem to post when stoner wins. when stoner was running away with it last year you said you didnt like close racing and that you preferred run away races, funny how you didnt comment when rossi run away with some. you stink !!

[quote name='Traverser' date='Oct 5 2008, 07:47 PM' post='158749']
Stoner also deserves credit for showing the rest of the field that you don't have to fold to Rossi's pressure not just one race but for the whole season. I honestly believe this is what Rossi would like as well. Having battles with everyone.
[/quote']
Completely agree with above, i thinks thats why rossi want single tyre rule and he is quite open about it the only rider so far i know who is not happy with single tyre rule is Casey stoner and i still think with all the talent in the world CS still doesn't like close racing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Oct 5 2008, 08:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner also deserves credit for showing the rest of the field that you don't have to fold to Rossi's pressure not just one race but for the whole season. I honestly believe this is what Rossi would like as well. Having battles with everyone.

On Italian TV Rossi commented on how Toseland didn't give in and put up a big fight with him, and he sounded very appreciative, not pissed--even if he certainly lost all (if any) hopes of ever catching Stoner, in that fight.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Oct 5 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>On Italian TV Rossi commented on how Toseland didn't give in and put up a big fight with him, and he sounded very appreciative, not pissed--even if he certainly lost all (if any) hopes of ever catching Stoner, in that fight.
in the parc ferme interview on bbc rossi said he lost time fighting with jt. but then he said with a big smile on his face that he enjoyed the battle

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Oct 5 2008, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Completely agree with above, i thinks thats why rossi want single tyre rule and he is quite open about it the only rider so far i know who is not happy with single tyre rule is Casey stoner and i still think with all the talent in the world CS still doesn't like close racing.


Not quite.

Both Suzuki riders have been quoted as being against the single supplier as has Hopkins (in some articles I have read). I have also read comments attributed to Rossi (early on as he seems to have changed tune), and we all know that Burgess is against it.

I would say that Stoner's opposition has nothing to do with wanting to 'run away' with a win (all riders would like easier wins) but more about giving up the advantage that Bridgestone offers the Ducati after years of working together as a team (same as VR did not want to give up JB).





But Jarno, good post and totally agree (I have said the same thing numerous times).

Without Stoner this would be a very boring championship as Rossi would dominate and it is the likes of Stoner (Pedrosa, Lorenzo etc) that I feel have bought the fire back top Rossi that will likely see him around for a few more years.

IMO, Vale was 'losing the fire' a bit as he wants, no he thrives on having competition and he now has it (and personally, I think one Nicky Hayden will be back in the frame next year).





Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Oct 6 2008, 08:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think one Nicky Hayden will be back in the frame next year.


Garry


In the frame with Hopkins, Melandri and co.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Corr @ Oct 6 2008, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In the frame with Hopkins, Melandri and co.


I so totally disagree. I was sitting at Lukey heights yesterday and watching Casey and Nicki both sliding through, they looked very similiar. I have some great photos and video as well, I think their respective styles are alike enough that Nicki will not suffer the fate of Melandri. A lot of riders (including VR and some of the other italians) kept their bikes neat. There is a difference in style and I think Nicki will fall on the good side of it.

I actually reached the conclusion yesterday the Vale would suck on the Ducati, it doesn't play to his style OR they would have to totally redesign it. Maybe this is the carbon frame right? So Vale can race his last season on the red bike.

Melandri was shocking yesterday, at a point on the track where CS, NH, VR (even SN) changed up a gear and gunned it he changed up then backed off then gunned it. He sounded like my neighbours kid riding his CB250 on 'L' plates.

i can't believe how bad he looks after he won this race in 2006.

Hopkins looked good on the bike but the bike is ...., .... ....!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Oct 6 2008, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hopkins looked good on the bike but the bike is ...., .... ....!


Fair point to your entire post, but I still think Nicky will struggle. Time will tell if I am wrong. I'm looking forward to off season testing.

And a big agreement about the Kawasaki. I just hope they throw turbos (or something) at it for Melandri.
I was there on the Saturday. I watch as Melandri struggled, Melandri and the Ducati do not agree with one another.

Pedrosa was the surprise for me. Until now I had not rated him, but now after seeing him on the track he did impress me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Corr @ Oct 5 2008, 11:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In the frame with Hopkins, Melandri and co.


No.

I look at Hayden's performances since Pedrosa wen to Bridgestone and I see a marked (and I do mean marked) improvement which to me indicates that Michelin are now giving him equipment that he needs and/or wants. This all fits the conspiracy theories (if they could be called that) which allude to NH playing a distant second to DP Min the Respol garage and in the Michelin pecking order (I so hope that Dovi gets equal everything).

IMO, NH is not a 'winner' in the realms of a Stoner or Rossi and I do not expect Nicky to ever win a large number of races in a year. But, IMO he is a very consistent and good rider fully capable of competing and being top 5 each and every week, and when you are there or thereabouts you will win races.

IMO, NH is better than Edwards and Hopkins in MotoGP as well as a number of riders not from the US, all he needs is the equipment and right team environment/dynamic. I feel that with Ducati already having an anglo influence (Stoner) and the fact that NH and CS get along very well this will ensure that NH has a good feeling of 'team belonging' which I believe is essential to any athlete performing at their best.

The rider I do have concerns about next year (in terms of results and possible backwards slide) is Pedrosa (stop the sheering) as I rate Lorenzo equal or higher, Dovi will be there or thereabouts if allowed the right gear, Toseland has impressed and then we have the new guys.

2009 should be good.







Garry