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Stoner unhappy with Austria run off

JPSLotus said:
No better way to wake up than when I make my protein shake with 2 scoops of whey protein, almond milk, ice, liquid egg whites, and 2 scoops of 5% Nutrition Real Food. Even better is when I am sipping it, then I sit down in front of my PC, and see Dub whining about Stoner like usual. The saltiness is real. I could do nothing else for the rest of the day now, but still feel satisfied knowing Stoner is still pissing off people here.
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Your started a great thread about mid year perceptions and 11 posts later changed to topic to Stoner.
Dub and I are not the ones bringing him up. Its you boners. Stoner retired. He completely irrelevant to the sport at this time.
That sounds like a good smoothie. Do you get your protein sent fresh from Australia

I'd love to see the posts if Stoner was caught diddling young boys
Michael M. There is a precedant for diddling young boys for a GP rider. Stoners ..... has a different feel than other riders and tiny ........ suit his style better than ......s. In his 7 years he ...... way more boys ..... then Rossi ...... .......( abbreviated version. There's no way Michael M would only write one paragraph )

Jps. Noone could .... a boys ... like Stoner could. Do you think if I found a way to turn into a little boy like Tom Hanks in Big, he would .... my ...

Gaz. He only needed to .... 10 ..... per weekend while other riders had to .... many more ........ Besides. ... ....... boys is a national pasttime in Oz.
 
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I was not aware I had made any comment about Stoner's test times on this thread, which does seem to mention Stoner in the thread title. If I had, which I deliberately chose not to do, it would have been to agree with Richy that they are fairly irrelevant unless and until he decides to at least race as a wildcard.

I also believe the test times were initially posted by a poster of relatively recent vintage and not one of the long term "Stoner Boners" such as JPS or me.

As for the rest, if you wish to revisit an old argument I am happy to reply with a counter argument, old or new, whilst not disputing that it is rather tedious to do so.
 
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Gaz said:
Maybe in the longer term but 2013 would not have seen MM on the official HRC factory team as HRC would then not have pushed so hard for the rule to be removed (they only started pushing once it became clear that CS was gone)

So MM would have arrived in 2014 and I reckon DP would still have been there (assuming CS left) as traditionally they will not replace both riders

He may not have lasted the additional 6 years with the new contract but I suspect at least 3 - 4 years
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Honda didnt have to push very much at all as Lucio did the pushing for them not to require Marquez to spend a year on his team. Marquez is sponsored by Repsol, Lucio was sponsored by Castrol, plus marquez was bringing his team which meant LCR would have to lay off his employees for a year. Dani's contract was up at the end of 2012 and it was common knowledge that Marquez was taking his place. Stoners announcement saved his career, at least at Repsol Honda.
 
povol said:
Honda didnt have to push very much at all as Lucio did the pushing for them not to require Marquez to spend a year on his team. Marquez is sponsored by Repsol, Lucio was sponsored by Castrol, plus marquez was bringing his team which meant LCR would have to lay off his employees for a year. Dani's contract was up at the end of 2012 and it was common knowledge that Marquez was taking his place. Stoners announcement saved his career, at least at Repsol Honda.
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Sure, I recall both that MM riding for him was problematic for Lucio, and you correctly pointing out that DP wasn't re-signed till after Stoner announced his retirement. The rookie rule was an Ezy "overnight special" rule in any case and a particularly stupid one imo, the demise of which was unlamented.
 
Gaz said:
Actually yes it could.

He has a serious back/neck injury from hitting hay bales neck first after a fall in the 125cc class from memory so the more time spent on the bike the more that injury could crop up (and did from time to time but was laughed off as another excuse).

Plus, some people do not need oodles of practice to be at the top of their sport, they just need a fitness level that allows them to sustain their sport.

There are many stories of top class athletes who do not do as much training at their chosen sport but will turn up each week and maintain their excellence based on their fitness to compete which as you would know does not necessarily mean riding a bike as once you have the skills they do not go away to easily, but lose fitness and that is harder to regain.

Besides which, if he can go out hard and find the limit in two laps, his job is done so why should he go out and ride simply to circulate and waste the time of the team, himself and the equipment when they could instead be working towards the next step forward
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But what I always notice about these types is they are a flash in the pan.

Training and fitness are a lot different than practice. He was actually quite fit for a sickly old man. But practice is something him and Alan Iverson no nothing about. He practiced being fast and thats it. The long stints are important to understand the bike late in races. Which is why almost all his race wins were runaways. He could have been as great if as you all say he is if he took the time to be a complete rider.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
But what I always notice about these types is they are a flash in the pan.

Training and fitness are a lot different than practice. He was actually quite fit for a sickly old man. But practice is something him and Alan Iverson no nothing about. He practiced being fast and thats it. The long stints are important to understand the bike late in races. Which is why almost all his race wins were runaways. He could have been as great if as you all say he is if he took the time to be a complete rider.
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He was a complete rider, and likely one of the most adaptable grand prix motorcycle riders we will ever see. Long stints were really irrelevant as he could adapt to whatever the bike was doing, as the the carbon fiber chassis Desmosedici proved. Long stints to understand the bike are more applicable to those who have lesser overall talent.

I think your criticism of not doing longer stints in his case are ridiculous as he was unlike any other rider period. You can't reasonably compare any other rider's approach to his because we're talking two radically different talent levels. I've always adhered to the policy of work smart, not hard...no different from practice in sport. You can be a great practicer, and .... when it comes down to game time. When it comes to Stoner, you can see how vastly overrated practice is for him in particular given that he near the top of the time sheets in Sepang after never having ridden with other GP riders on track for 3 1/2 years.
 
JPSLotus said:
He was a complete rider, and likely one of the most adaptable grand prix motorcycle riders we will ever see. Long stints were really irrelevant as he could adapt to whatever the bike was doing, as the the carbon fiber chassis Desmosedici proved. Long stints to understand the bike are more applicable to those who have lesser overall talent.

I think your criticism of not doing longer stints in his case are ridiculous as he was unlike any other rider period. You can't reasonably compare any other rider's approach to his because we're talking two radically different talent levels. I've always adhered to the policy of work smart, not hard...no different from practice in sport. You can be a great practicer, and .... when it comes down to game time. When it comes to Stoner, you can see how vastly overrated practice is for him in particular given that he near the top of the time sheets in Sepang after never having ridden with other GP riders on track for 3 1/2 years.
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Understanding the bike on used tires to be more specific. Yes he could understand how to ride the bike in a fewer laps than anyone Ive seen. But he's also one of few I've seen fail to understand the bike on a warm up lap. You can't tell me sitting in the pit not putting down laps is smart work. There is no way you can convince me he learned more sitting in the pits than riding more laps. Maybe that would have helped him win a couple more titles or races at least. But it sure would not have lost him any, unless he was hurt. So how can you say less laps is smarter work? Its lazy.

I guarantee you he has the least laps in the history of test riders.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
Understanding the bike on used tires to be more specific. Yes he could understand how to ride the bike in a fewer laps than anyone Ive seen. But he's also one of few I've seen fail to understand the bike on a warm up lap. You can't tell me sitting in the pit not putting down laps is smart work. There is no way you can convince me he learned more sitting in the pits than riding more laps. Maybe that would have helped him win a couple more titles or races at least. But it sure would not have lost him any, unless he was hurt. So how can you say less laps is smarter work? Its lazy.

I guarantee you he has the least laps in the history of test riders.
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He also has the most world titles in the history of test riders. I'd wager a good sum that if most of the test riders could trade all of their testing laps in for a lone race victory, or somehow a world title, they would do so.

I'm more intrigued by your presumption that you know a better plan for figuring out how the bike and tires worked than one of the 5 greatest riders in history who's ability to determine what a bike was doing in short time was unparalleled. Saying he might have won a few more races or titles had he adhered to your standards of what proper work consists of is a hypothetical that can't be proven, nor disproven. Maybe he would have, we will never know on that. But I do feel comfortable in stating that it's highly unlikely had he taken your prescribed approach, that things would have unfolded any different. He put together quite a resume that saw him win 38 grands prix and two world championships in 7 seasons, much of which was done on one of the most difficult grand prix bikes to ride in the 4-stroke era of GP. I do think he should have won the 2012 title though, but that was not down to sitting in the pits instead of putting laps down as you would have liked.

FWIW, he did over 100 laps at Misano over two days at the end of June. There's no information about what sort of stints he was doing. But I'm a little more of the belief that he doesn't test like normal riders do anyhow, since he never rode like normal riders did anyway.

I actually put together 3 of the best sector numbers I saw out of this test from him, and it translated to a lap in the low 1:23's.
 
JPSLotus said:
He was a complete rider, and likely one of the most adaptable grand prix motorcycle riders we will ever see. Long stints were really irrelevant as he could adapt to whatever the bike was doing, as the the carbon fiber chassis Desmosedici proved. Long stints to understand the bike are more applicable to those who have lesser overall talent.

I think your criticism of not doing longer stints in his case are ridiculous as he was unlike any other rider period. You can't reasonably compare any other rider's approach to his because we're talking two radically different talent levels. I've always adhered to the policy of work smart, not hard...no different from practice in sport. You can be a great practicer, and .... when it comes down to game time. When it comes to Stoner, you can see how vastly overrated practice is for him in particular given that he near the top of the time sheets in Sepang after never having ridden with other GP riders on track for 3 1/2 years.
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I get that stoner is awesome, I agree he is.

I would say though at this moment stoner is a great practioner and has no game time. Therefore at this time he is unfortunately irrelevant
 
Richy56 said:
I get that stoner is awesome, I agree he is.

I would say though at this moment stoner is a great practioner and has no game time. Therefore at this time he is unfortunately irrelevant
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Indeed, but I like just seeing him out there on a GP bike regardless. While it's obviously not the ideal situation of seeing him in a race again, it's still just nice to see him riding period.
 
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Ducati boss Paolo Ciabatti has admitted that Casey Stoner could consider taking part in a race if he feels competitive and is not exhausted after two days of testing at the Red Bull Ring.

The Australian has been one of the main focuses of interest during the two-day test that began on Tuesday at Spielberg, where he was fourth fastest on the opening day.

Stoner, who has been critical of the safety of the track, especially of the proximity of the protection barriers, is riding the Desmosedici GP in his role as test rider for the Italian manufacturer.

However, apart from continuing with the development of the current bike and the one that Jorge Lorenzo will ride next year, the Southport rider is also testing himself with the intention of finding out if he is competitive, and if he would be capable of withstanding the physical demands of a grand prix weekend.

Ducati insists that the return of Stoner, who left Honda at the end of last year, was never aimed at a possible racing comeback. However, the company would relish that scenario if the rider wants it.

"We didn't go after Casey to make him return to racing, because he has always said that he doesn't want to, that he's not interested in that life because of the pressure and so on," Ciabatti told Motorsport.com at the Sachsenring.

"But he also hasn't said that he is not going to think about taking part in a grand prix, and we have left that door open. It if happens, it will be just once and that's it, because he has nothing to prove.

"If he tells us that he wants to race, we'll do all we can to please him. If he doesn't, we'll never put pressure on him. This test is just another test, on a new track, also for him.

"He will share the track with other riders and after two days and many laps, and as long as he's not exhausted, he might consider taking part in a race."

Stoner retired at the end of 2012 with two titles, one with Ducati (2007) and one with Honda (2011). Since then he has been busy testing with both manufacturers, travelling around the world with his wife Adrian and his daughter Alessandra by his side.

The test at the Red Bull Ring appears to be the best place for a final exam, the definitive one, to be in a position to make a decision that could lead to him racing mid-August, at this very circuit.

It's a venue where none of the current riders have competed much, so there are few references, which means everybody would be starting from scratch.

Stoner to decide on wild-card after Austria test - Ducati
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.
 
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Crash.net MotoGP
‏@crash_motogp
Ducati confirms to Crash.Net | F1 & MotoGP | Motorsport News no wild-card for Casey Stoner in Austria: 'It's not going to happen'.

So there you have it, no wild card. Pretty much what I expected. He's never going to race again barring a real change of heart which I can't see happening. Should really put an end to all of that speculation.
 
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JohnnyKnockdown said:
Jps. Noone could .... a boys ... like Stoner could. Do you think if I found a way to turn into a little boy like Tom Hanks in Big, he would .... my ...

Gaz. He only needed to .... 10 ..... per weekend while other riders had to .... many more ........ Besides. ... ....... boys is a national pasttime in Oz.
Click to expand...

You and your ... ....... infatuation does make one wonder whether you prefer to be the top or the bottom or switch.

As for the typical ........ Aussie comment, it is less of a past time here than people wish to imagine, although many of the religious fraternity who have been taught in the US do seem to bring the trait with them when they head this way, the difference being that we catch and incarcerate the fuckers


MdubSTYLIE said:
Understanding the bike on used tires to be more specific. Yes he could understand how to ride the bike in a fewer laps than anyone Ive seen. But he's also one of few I've seen fail to understand the bike on a warm up lap. You can't tell me sitting in the pit not putting down laps is smart work. There is no way you can convince me he learned more sitting in the pits than riding more laps. Maybe that would have helped him win a couple more titles or races at least. But it sure would not have lost him any, unless he was hurt. So how can you say less laps is smarter work? Its lazy.

I guarantee you he has the least laps in the history of test riders.
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Actually he is not the only one to crash on a warm up (or warm down) lap throughout the years Dubs and with the one in question it was put down as a bike issue/failure (not by him, he accepted blame)

As for sitting in the pits not being smart work, well once again (and I know that you block your ears and go lalalala when this is said) but I defer to the likes of Suppo, Gabbarini and others who quite simply have stated that his feel with the bike was second to none in that he had an ability that most others do not to identify problems far quicker than many. Additional to this are the oft repeated comments that the sheer fact that he could get to speed as fast was felt to be an advantage to his team as it allowed them faster results.

Either or really as some can win world titles with few laps and yet others cannot win a race with huge numbers of laps so what works I guess.

As for the lowest number of laps - you may be surprised as he pulled in excess of 70 at Sepang and I suspect that at the tests now he is actually testing the 2017 so is biding time (as a test rider he is also allowed other private tests so laps are not critical as they could gauge the bike against this year).

But dubs, does the same criticism apply to the other Ducati test rider who also cut few laps?
 
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‏@crash_motogp
Marc Marquez confirms to Crash.Net | F1 & MotoGP | Motorsport News
After not being invited by Ducati to participate in the test at the Red Bull Ring, Marquez has confirmed his alter ego 'Murder Mac' will be on display during the race.
neOOuUs.jpg







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J5OFL9O.jpg
 
Richy56 said:
I would say though at this moment stoner is a great practioner and has no game time. Therefore at this time he is unfortunately irrelevant
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For the season and likely to the future, yes but for this test (given his role as test rider) then no, he is relevant as are Pirro and all other riders on track.

There is no doubt that despite contrary protestations the likes of all other teams will keep an eye on him and his times as a precursor to the possible potential of the Ducati for the remainder of 2016 and into 2017 (again, all based on his role).

Outside of the tests he is relevant only to those that cannot forget (and that applies to both sides of the fence)
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
Yes yes. I understand that he was so good that he didn't need to run enough laps to understand the bike late in the race. But imagine how good he could have been if he did? No way would it have made him worse to run longer stints.
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As I said, I agree with Richy's stance on this thread.

However since you have raised the matter, what evidence do you have for your contentions about Stoner and his lack of race simulations in practice, other than that how he operated doesn't fit some philosohical notion you have of how things should be done?

To me this is one of the old arguments which later events supervened. The only year he faded late in races was 2009, which iirc you did attribute to laziness on his part from the point of view of either or both of him not doing race simulations or not doing adequate physical training. I think there is very little doubt for most observers now that he actually had a health issue that year. His Ducati years have rather been thrown into sharp relief by Rossi's adventures at Ducati, with Capirossi's manager for one saying during Rossi's stint there that he and most others had been wrong, it was clearly the bike rather than Stoner's riding which had been the problem.

2 things you specifically mention actually argue against your case. As you say when he won it was often by runaway, hence he had no problems with late race performance, and in 2010 when he did most of his crashing on a truly diabolical bike his crashes were early race crashes, if he got through that period he was often quite competitive.

Even the warm up lap burnouts were a specific strategy to get the Bridgestone "hards" up to operating temperature so he could push hard earlier, and not one I am sure in rerospect he should have abandoned after the warm up lap crash following the tyre warmer malfunction.

I agree with JPS that he could and perhaps should have won the 2012 championship, but what ended his contention was a practice crash on a difficult corner on a track concerning which he was proven correct about having a substandard surface.

In the end I would agree race simulations might have helped him win more titles but only if he had been doing them on a factory Honda rather than a Ducati for his last several years at Ducati.
 
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For you guys Dubs and JKD - just to keep your CS fascination alive

From his facebook page (yes, posted on his official page by him allegedly):

Rolling Stoner returns First time using a soft tyre in 4 years, crashed first time in 4 years! ‪#‎LeaveItToThePro‬'s

How dare he make fun of himself, seriously ............ that is the job of so many keyboard warriors not him :p
 

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