Spies says Stoner most talented ever

I read that on Crash and just knew you would put it up on here, let me guess, is Spies now your 2nd favourite rider? haha.



You'd have to buttoned up the back to think this was some kind of revelation.... However, like you say, fastest doesn't necessarily mean best!

Its a great compliment and probably very close to accurate. It actually says something about Spies too, in that he is confident in himself and honest about his evaluations. I'm not sure if he or anyone can extend the compliment to 'ever' but certainly for the time he's been in MotoGP.

Is Jorge miffed that he rates Stoner above him?

Of course he is good and of course he can be beaten. He has been beaten to 4 world championships, one by Nicky Hayden.



Not sure Spies can make the call given he has barely cut his teeth in Motogp.

Not sure Spies can make the call given he has barely cut his teeth in Motogp.



Whether he has the right to make this call or not, he is still correct.........it is as obvious as dogs balls to anybody without a jaundiced eye.

So you are ignoring past greats then? How can you say it is true? Based on your own bias it is, public opinion is divided. Me, I don't know enough about the past greats such as agostini and hailwood.



You haven't proven your case, you've merely said it is true because it is which is simply an unproven statement - one that can never be proven. More correctly, spies view would be that he is the best that he has seen.

woody996 said:

Of course he is good and of course he can be beaten. He has been beaten to 4 world championships, one by Nicky Hayden.



Not sure Spies can make the call given he has barely cut his teeth in Motogp.

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So what of all those people who have never even thrown a leg over a MotoGP bike stating as FACT that Rossi is the GOAT (Greatest of ALL TIME)?



If Spies, a WSBK WC, AMA Champion, MotoGP race winner, current Yamaha Factory MotoGP Rider, can make a claim that he believes that Stoner is the most talented ever then why should the claims of Rossi being a Goat be taken seriously?



Remember that many current riders including Champions such as Bayliss, Spies, Rossi, Capirossi, Hayden etc have all confirmed that Stoner has skills and a style of riding that is unable to be replicated by any of these greats let alone the standard WC level riders then why is it such a long bow to draw that perhaps he is the most talented rider to ever ride a road bike.

Spies is going to be trouble for us Stoner fans this year ....... mark my words.

Spies has a very similar mentality to Stoner, just a tad more determination is needed. I'm fully ready for a few more Assen rides from Spies, then nobody will catch him. He's another "new breed" thats for sure.



Unless I'm wrong, then don't mark them.



What sort of "bopper" will Jum label the Spies fans now?

woody996 said:

So you are ignoring past greats then? How can you say it is true? Based on your own bias it is, public opinion is divided. Me, I don't know enough about the past greats such as agostini and hailwood.



You haven't proven your case, you've merely said it is true because it is which is simply an unproven statement - one that can never be proven. More correctly, spies view would be that he is the best that he has seen.

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Spies is only offering an opinion. It is next to impossible to compare greats from various eras, but you should take into account the greater fitness, dedication and skill levels that modern sportsmen in general have with equivalents in previous eras . A few examples are swimming, tennis ,football(rugby nrl nfl etc). The champions from earlier eras would be absolutely slaughtered by their modern equivalents( even taking equipment into account). Can you imagine chain smoking Barry Sheene having the fitness to race at close to 100% for 45 minutes? Not a chance. In the wallabies team Stan Pilecki had the fitness of Winston Churchill but made the national team. The same scenarios repeat themselves.



Oh, and discussions should revolve around facts? I really hope this is your new belief structure, because it would be rather nice if you could apply the same logic to subjects like climate change. Instead of believing tabloid press headlines, maybe you should do a google search , narrowed by the "scholar" option.(Near the top toolbar is a button "more". If "scholar" is not visible, click "even more", then click on "scholar" )

Then you would have facts presented by people that know what they are talking about.Then you will be better informed. Then I will start to take you seriously.

us Texans are just polite like that, thats all he's doing.. till you piss us off then we .... and shoot you in the face

povol said:

Its always pure speculation as to who is the greatest of all time in any sport. Casey has earned a lot of respect for his talents since Rossi struggled so mightily on the Ducati.On the flip side Rossi's legacy has suffered a bit because of said struggles. All we heard for years was that Rossi could win on anything.A Kawasaki, a Suzuki, a Vespa, even a peddle bike. That rep has taken a hit, and Stoners has furthered his rep as being fast on anything. There is no proof as to who is best, never will be.Not even race wins. Rossi will never catch Agostini in wins, but just about anyone with any sense would rate Rossi and a handful of others higher than Ago. Numbers are good place to start, but they dont tell the entire story

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I agree. Ultimately who is best is a subjective view rather than fact and it can never be fact. Stoner has earned a lot of respect for his skills, I'm not knocking that.



I was just trying to get those who believe their view is fact to consider that it is really their subjective view - i'm not saying it can't be right.

So Woody, are you going to ignore the elephant in YOUR room?

woody996 said:

So you are ignoring past greats then? How can you say it is true? Based on your own bias it is, public opinion is divided. Me, I don't know enough about the past greats such as agostini and hailwood.



You haven't proven your case, you've merely said it is true because it is which is simply an unproven statement - one that can never be proven. More correctly, spies view would be that he is the best that he has seen.

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Ago has said much the same thing though, again restricting himself to saying he is probably the fastest rider he has seen rather than the best.



The best/GOAT (rather than FOAT) involves other things, particularly longevity and consistency over a career. Race craft also comes into it, but perhaps unsurprisingly I don't take it as proven that stoner lacks racecraft; his racecraft didn't look bad once he got a factory honda, and I don't think there was much opportunity for race craft on an 800 ducati.

Stoner is like a repeat of all of the great riders of the 80's and 90's, all wrapped into one guy.



SO too may Spies turn out to be on a 1000.



He does need to get a bit "nastier" though. Yes the fans will sook at him ......... but set Curve onto them I say, and lets see a less "polite" Spies for 2012.



Its what Hayden did wrong, after he won 2006 he shouldn't have become Mr Nice. Nicky will get better only if he kicks Jumkie in the face. No spatty, no arm waving, just pure unadulterated real actions.

Jumkie said:

Its a great compliment and probably very close to accurate. It actually says something about Spies too, in that he is confident in himself and honest about his evaluations. I'm not sure if he or anyone can extend the compliment to 'ever' but certainly for the time he's been in MotoGP.

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If you take a line through his ducati performances then it is accurate. He was often well over a second faster than very good riders, and imo would still have been significantly faster than rossi even on the 2007 bike with the good tyres. Even as a stoner fan though I agree there was something unique about his relationship with the 800 ducati, a flawed design which could only be ridden in one fashion, a fashion impossible to replicate according to several very good riders, and even one indisputably great rider.



It will be interesting to see how he goes on the more conventional honda this year with data for all the tracks; the formula has also changed, so one way or another he will on an equal footing with dani pedrosa in regard to track data. Last year he was better and faster than dani imo and by the points tally, but not absolutely stunningly so as might be expected from the FOAT. Dani at this stage on his record looks to me like a max biaggi level rider (even down to the exceptional lower class record) ie very very good, better than gibernau but not at the absolute top level as a premier class rider.



I didn't disagree with what you said earlier either, nicky's career changed after 2006 with the change of formula to the bikes designed for midget riders and his relegation even more definitely to the role of development mule, which he has held ever since. In that role he went closer to making the previous flawed ducati design generally rideable than stoner, or even the great rossi and jb, ever did btw. I do wonder whether he is one of those sportsmen who get it all together for one great year, but not withstanding this he did have that year even against the great rossi and in the last year of the 990 formula when the bikes imo and yours were much more equal than is usually the case. He was also pretty much equivalent to rossi on the gpig 11 though as you have noted, and to stoner on the 2010 ducati when the bike was developed his way .



I have had enough schadenfreude and would also like to see rossi back on a competitive bike. It actually diminishes the sport imo to have him riding around in 6th or 7th, and I would like to see whether stoner can take him on in hand to hand combat on similar bikes.

i think this will have to happen by developing the ducati, since time is marching on and by the time he would be able to get on to a factory honda or yamaha if there are still such things he would be at a fairly advanced age.

Its funny how we all can debate one guy's opinion. We really are all crazy.

Jumkie said:

Its a great compliment and probably very close to accurate. It actually says something about Spies too, in that he is confident in himself and honest about his evaluations. I'm not sure if he or anyone can extend the compliment to 'ever' but certainly for the time he's been in MotoGP.

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Well he did, as have many others.



Why do you think they do Jumkie? Do you think its a comment made "lightly"?



No they are just being honest ......... and they are "in the game", even Pernat ( who once was near excommunicated, on a cross, in flames, whilst being thrown into a bog, that was being stoned, by a posse of bad "lynching" cowboys, etc. ) .....



The following folk have at one time said the same about Stoner:



BarryMachine

Rossi

Pernat

Edwards

Hayden

Capi

Melandri

Doohan

Lorenzo

Spies



there's a reason for that .......... and it not just because they want to jump on a bandwagon.





Stoner is the best GP rider of all time to date . Thats what "ever" means.