Spies could replace Toseland in 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Apr 28 2009, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And thats the shame of it. i had high hope for my countryman, never really been a fan but rooted for him cos he's english. The northan monkey started well but found his top limit i think. i really dont think he would be faster on a faster bike to be honest. If theres a chance spies could be faster and tech 3 can sign him i say go for it. No room for dead wood at this level ( or you would think)

Tose hasn't reached his limit brotha. Michelin crapped out last year and now he has to learn Bstones while still probably recovering from injury. Do you think those flashes of brilliance at Qatar and PI were flukes? I think the whole crewchief marry-go-round debacle has also effected him. It turned out the grass wasn't greener, so now he's screwed (albiet self-inflicted). He will be fine. I think he belongs in MotoGP, but sure he will need to put in results. There is no way the other three Yamahas can fight for podiums and Toes be fight for a top ten. Now if he doesn't produce at least a few top fives this year (which I think he will) then yeah, we can start talking a return to WSBK (and there is no shame in that really). MotoGP has become so specialized that superbikers struggle.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 28 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tose hasn't reached his limit brotha. Michelin crapped out last year and now he has to learn Bstones while still probably recovering from injury. Do you think those flashes of brilliance at Qatar and PI were flukes? I think the whole crewchief marry-go-round debacle has also effected him. It turned out the grass wasn't greener, so now he's screwed (albiet self-inflicted). He will be fine. I think he belongs in MotoGP, but sure he will need to put in results. There is no way the other three Yamahas can fight for podiums and Toes be fight for a top ten. Now if he doesn't produce at least a few top fives this year (which I think he will) then yeah, we can start talking a return to WSBK (and there is no shame in that really). MotoGP has become so specialized that superbikers struggle.
i hope your right, lorenzo seems to have adjusted to stones nicely but i will hold my judgment of jt to the summer break and see where he is.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Apr 28 2009, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies is winning races in a world championship at tracks he has never seen before on a bike he has never ridden before.

What else do you want? Most guys, even great Superbikers, take several seasons to get comfortable and up to speed.

I agree Spies should stay in WSBK (b/c it's better) but he's more qualified than most of the people in GP. What is DeAngelis doing in GP, or Takahashi, or DePuniet, or Vermeulen, or Caneppa, or Kallio, or Guintoli, or West?

Spies hasn't done enough? You're joking.
YEah don't forget the championships he won in the US. Here is a guy that a few years ago came from nowhere and took it to Mat Mladin who is one of the best on those tracks. I think your statement about better than Taki, depooonya etc is really the case. I would bet anyone of those teams managers would dump their rider to have Ben. Maybe Kallio would be the only exception to that list.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Apr 29 2009, 03:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And thats the shame of it. i had high hope for my countryman, never really been a fan but rooted for him cos he's english. The northan monkey started well but found his top limit i think. i really dont think he would be faster on a faster bike to be honest. If theres a chance spies could be faster and tech 3 can sign him i say go for it. No room for dead wood at this level ( or you would think)


I too like JT, hell of a life story (and he is a muso), I read an interview this week with one of the Australian riders (don't ask me which one) who was talking about going overseas and they told him you have to bring a certain dollar amount in sponsorship.

I'm still thinking that there has to be an English rider in this championship for the transient audience (not the devoted like most on this forum) and the sponsorship.

I still think JT will be there until a replacement (from the UK) is found...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Apr 29 2009, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies is winning races in a world championship at tracks he has never seen before on a bike he has never ridden before.

Agreed, and doing bloody well.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Apr 29 2009, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What else do you want? Most guys, even great Superbikers, take several seasons to get comfortable and up to speed.

Agreed.
All I am saying is because the guy has set the pace in the first few races in WSB, does not automatically make him a candidate for Tech 3. He has been fast, but he has also made a few big mistakes.
Look at West - he filled in for Kawasaki in SS, (from memory) won three races from 4 starts, on a bike that had previously been average, after never racing in SS. Blitzed everyone. Got elevated straight to MotoGP as the new Kawasaki golden chiild, and looked average. Now I know the bike was ...., and I actually think Westy is a bloody good rider, and probably better than some existing MGP and WSB riders, but big mistake. End of his MotoGP.
(At best) Spies is only slightly faster than Haga in WSB. Should Haga be on the list for Tech 3. I don't think so.

Don't think people should automatically be pencilling Spein in at Tech 3 because he has domnated the early pace in WSB.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Apr 29 2009, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree Spies should stay in WSBK (b/c it's better) but he's more qualified than most of the people in GP. What is DeAngelis doing in GP, or Takahashi, or DePuniet, or Vermeulen, or Caneppa, or Kallio, or Guintoli, or West?

Agreed some of the others need to go, but I would probably be looking at the top 250 riders, Simoncelli, Bautista, Hector Barbera.
I think DeAngelis is OK, I think Kallio is going to be a good rider, I think Vermeulen is OK (although he has to perform this year), don't think Takahashi should be in, don't think Canepa should be in, and don't think Sete should have come back to MotoGP.
You cannot have a grid of Rossis or Stoners. Those guys are freaks.
Who is the next freak.... Spies ???
Maybe.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Apr 29 2009, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies hasn't done enough? You're joking.

Nah, serious.
But, don't get me wrong, I really like Spies, and I actually hope he wins the WSK this year.

And PS,
Remember, some of those guys are in because they bring Dollars to the teams, like Sete.
Not on pure tallent alone.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nuts @ Apr 29 2009, 03:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>(At best) Spies is only slightly faster than Haga in WSB. Should Haga be on the list for Tech 3. I don't think so.Haga's 34 years old. Unless you've got a long GP history and bring the sponsorship dollars you don't get a new GP ride at that age. If you're on a championship-capable bike in WSBK at that age, you probably don't want to, either.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nuts @ Apr 29 2009, 03:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't think people should automatically be pencilling Spein in at Tech 3 because he has domnated the early pace in WSB.It's not that unreasonable. He performed reasonably well in his wildcards last year. He's been instantly fast on circuits previously unknown to him this year - that sort of adaptability is particularly vital for a rider coming from the AMA who's competing against riders who grew up on those same circuits. He's teamed up with another series rookie on a brand new bike, and that bike's been developed well enough that it's been competitive from week 1. He's young. He beat Mladin 3 years in a row, and the last rider who beat Mladin eventually won a MotoGP world championship.

If he keeps up the pace in in WSBK and eliminates the mistakes that have plagued him recently, that makes for a pretty attractive package.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nuts @ Apr 29 2009, 01:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't think people should automatically be pencilling Spein in at Tech 3 because he has domnated the early pace in WSB.

Good post Nuts, except this part here you may want to consider that the Tech3 principal said: "I want Ben Spies..." So its not just fans saying he deserves a promotion (despite 'not yet accomplishing' much in wsbk) but also factor in the the guy with the most say as to who gets the next seat at Tech3 says he wants him. And almost in the same breath says "Toseland needs to roll".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Apr 29 2009, 07:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I still think JT will be there until a replacement (from the UK) is found...
We've been waiting patiently for the next Barry Sheene since.........Barry Sheene

Rant on
I'm sorry guys, but is it really a promotion to come from WSBK to MotoGP right now? Honestly from a fan perspective WSBK has been more entertaining to watch than MotoGP. With 800cc prototype bikes built for light weights, I honestly don't know how Spies would do in MotoGP.
Rant off

It would be cool to see how Spies would do in MotoGP, but I think Tose still has a chance to crack the top 5 in a few races this year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Apr 29 2009, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rant on
I'm sorry guys, but is it really a promotion to come from WSBK to MotoGP right now? Honestly from a fan perspective WSBK has been more entertaining to watch than MotoGP. With 800cc prototype bikes built for light weights, I honestly don't know how Spies would do in MotoGP.
Rant off

It would be cool to see how Spies would do in MotoGP, but I think Tose still has a chance to crack the top 5 in a few races this year.
YOur right about how SBK has the excitement right now. After the motegi race though it wasn't exactly a snoozer either. But if Ben comes over to GP I would be right off the bat that he would most likely be faster than Toseland at preseent. Sure he has a chance to do well but with the current crop of top 5 riders he just isn't in there at all. It would take a major act of God at this point to get him beyond the 6th or 5th top riders.

In a way Spies has already proved himself in MotoGP. Toseland will never finish top 5 in this field.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Apr 29 2009, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In a way Spies has already proved himself in MotoGP. Toseland will never finish top 5 in the field.
Well I don't know about proved himself just yet. In SBK absolutely but as far as GP he needs to do more than just a few cameo rides. He is good and I do expect him to be a top 5 rider in GP. When JT came over as much as I thought he was good I never expected him to be up in the top 5 consistantly. The same with CE as well. He is an awesome dev rider but as far as the race he always seems to fall back. Same with Capi now since he is on a slower bike and he is getting older as well. We should see Ben either next year or the year after. I hope so cause that kid is good man.

The way he finished at Indy last year settled it for me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Apr 29 2009, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The way he finished at Indy last year settled it for me.
Well whatever the case when he finally gets to GP, if he gets a decent ride with a parts stream like anyone else he absolutely has a real good chance to thicken the plot of GP. If I were EZY this would be something I would try to get done cause Rossi isn't gonna be there a whole hell of a lot longer. You would think you want GP to be in a strong state when the face of the sport decides to leave. Getting Ben wouldn't in any way make up for the loss but it would help soften the blow when we watch each race weekend.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Apr 29 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In a way Spies has already proved himself in MotoGP. Toseland will never finish top 5 in this field.

Spies has already equaled Toeslands best finish in MotoGP. 6th.


As far as you saying he will "never" finish in top 5, I doubt it. I bet hell will before the season is over. But even if he does, will it be enough? Not if the other three Yamaha are ahead 90% of the time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Apr 30 2009, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm sorry guys, but is it really a promotion to come from WSBK to MotoGP right now? Honestly from a fan perspective WSBK has been more entertaining to watch than MotoGP. With 800cc prototype bikes built for light weights, I honestly don't know how Spies would do in MotoGP.
Yes, it really is. Entertaining for fans? ...absolutely... But from a young riders perspective you ain't reached the peak until you're a consistent MGP contender. Also Spies has shown you what he can do on a MGP bike - are far greater challenge riding the 800 so well as opposed to a "similar" superbike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 30 2009, 02:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies has already equaled Toeslands best finish in MotoGP. 6th.


As far as you saying he will "never" finish in top 5, I doubt it. I bet hell will before the season is over. But even if he does, will it be enough? Not if the other three Yamaha are ahead 90% of the time.
I'll take that bet... JT finishes NO BETTER THAN SIXTH before the end of '09... bottle of Thai Rum vs. bottle of JD.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Apr 29 2009, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm sorry guys, but is it really a promotion to come from WSBK to MotoGP right now?If it wasn't, multiple champions like Toesland wouldn't struggle so mightily and former sub-champion GP riders wouldn't step into superbikes and start winning races right away. The lightweight thing is annoying, but GPs are still a cut above. WSBK racing is top-notch, though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Apr 29 2009, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, it really is. Entertaining for fans? ...absolutely... But from a young riders perspective you ain't reached the peak until you're a consistent MGP contender. Also Spies has shown you what he can do on a MGP bike - are far greater challenge riding the 800 so well as opposed to a "similar" superbike.


I'll take that bet... JT finishes NO BETTER THAN SIXTH before the end of '09... bottle of Thai Rum vs. bottle of JD.
that thai rum better be good to get jumkie to bite. bear in mind i weaned him on woods 100

Has Spies done enough? It's tough. On one hand he is clearly a fast learner and a great rider, so yes everything looks good for him. On the other hand there is the fact that his size and style appears very superbike friendly, which works in his favour now but may not do later. Secondly, fast learning does not guarentee higher peaks, he may reach a level in a years time that he stays at for the rest of his career. All of these things are speculation of course, the bottom line is who would you employ instead? I can think of two or three men in 250cc right now, but not many more.

Which brings us to JT. He needs to beat Edwards overall this year. He needs to be mixing it up with the top end of the second group on a regular basis and a podium would do him a LOT of good. The top 5 seem to be a bit out of reach, but beyond that everything is to play for and James clearly has the best bike of them.