so what wrong with the other ducati's???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 15 2008, 11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well think about it ..... lean angle gets read by sensor .... limits power cos it thinks you are on the edge of the tyre ..... you hang your body out more and pick the bike up, it both puts you on a nicer part of the tyre, plus it bypasses the limiting of the power by the lean angle sensor.

Its hardly rocket science ........ or is it

Unless of course they use the gyro to read the true sideway force, and/or the position on the track + speed to decide what kind of output the tires can take + a number of other sensors like rear suspension load, spin..... , but that would break your sensational revelation of why stoner are so much quicker than the other ducati riders so it can't be.


Came to think of it, if that's why stoner is so fast why doesn't Elias fly like a rocket? He certainly move enough on the bike, or what?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 15 2008, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Unless of course they use the gyro to read the true sideway force, and/or the position on the track + speed to decide what kind of output the tires can take + a number of other sensors like rear suspension load, spin..... , but that would break your sensational revelation of why stoner are so much quicker than the other ducati riders so it can't be.


Not a speck of sense in all that

Nothing sensational about it .... its pretty common practice .... especially to a dirt rider ..... when it rains you just avoid leaning the bike .... where's the sensation?? Same on a road surface too when the grip needs to be optimised.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 15 2008, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Came to think of it, if that's why stoner is so fast why doesn't Elias fly like a rocket? He certainly move enough on the bike, or what?

Well obviously not ..... otherwise why isn't Elias up there with Stoner

Sounds like just more bull.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 15 2008, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not a speck of sense in all that

Nothing sensational about it .... its pretty common practice .... especially to a dirt rider ..... when it rains you just avoid leaning the bike .... where's the sensation?? Same on a road surface too when the grip needs to be optimised.
I agree there is no sensation, but you were the one putting 1 and 1 togehter and made it a 3. (moving on the bike make stoner fast)
And FYI on hard surface you don't want a large grip area, but a small one with lots of pressure. The more rain the more pressure is needed to avoid sliding. And IF you want a large grip surface you better stay leaned over at about 3/4 of max angle as this is where the tire has the largest grip surface.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Well obviously not ..... otherwise why isn't Elias up there with Stoner

Sounds like just more bull.

Well we know where the bull comes from, don't we.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 16 2008, 02:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And FYI on hard surface you don't want a large grip area, but a small one with lots of pressure. The more rain the more pressure is needed to avoid sliding. And IF you want a large grip surface you better stay leaned over at about 3/4 of max angle as this is where the tire has the largest grip surface.

hahaha well let me know how that goes then won't you

I think some of you are missing the point, it's not that Stoner is better or that the bike is better or that Satellites are on weaker machines or that Rossi is an old fart, its the TEAM..... Ducati has the whole FACTORY TEAM working in the ZONE.. Bridgestone,suspension techs, Engine Techs, Electronic Techs the whole lot at the same time, thats what wins GP's. remember when Burgess ran Rossis team, it was a team then, now the 'rock star' is running the show and look at whats happened............

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Caseyfan @ Mar 21 2008, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>now the 'rock star' is running the show and look at whats happened...........that'll rub some people up the wrong way caseyfan but it does look like there's some of that going on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 10 2008, 08:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I hear Stoner gets all the new batteries for his electronics and the others get his used ones. that made me laugh


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anders GUZZI @ Mar 14 2008, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think the Ducati is unique to the other bikes.....,



Andersgreat post anders. on the money. it's curing those tiny fractions of seconds lost in lots of places that matters. finding and getting rid of things that divert the rider's attention creates winning lap times, that and the fact that stoner seems to be very good at doing everything else too. he's obviously not superhuman, there isn't some funky mojo goin' on, but the guy has ridden near perfect, no, flawlessly everywhere he's been since he got on the ducati and that's what it takes. i can't wait for jerez, i want to see if they can make up for last year.

my take on it is, its pretty much an established fact that Italian Motorsports psychology is to put ALL the effort into one main rider, same with s/bikes and, i believe F1, one main hope and an also ran ........... .
i think last season they saw Case as the rabbit but were suprised and shocked by his speed, most all the effort then went into his season................
looking back over the years, i can't bring to mind when they had two strong runners in ANY championship, or am i wrong?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Mar 22 2008, 06:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>nice theory except in 07 loris was the "main man"

Maybe in January 07, but it didn't last long

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 15 2008, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hahaha well let me know how that goes then won't you
I'm not sure what you disagreed upon but here is the details:

It went very well. When I raced the production series rain tires where often not allowed and we had to race Dunlop D207GP even on rain. The improvement in lap time from normal race pressure 30-32psi to max pressure ~45 was about 10 sec on a 3.5km track for me. And that was only on the first session I tested high pressure. With moderate amounts of water on the track this works surpricingly well.
It might also interest you that rain tires use higer pressure than slicks, and that the wide groves help for more than water draining, it also sentralise the forces to a few high pressurized points.
And finally, this is not a new trick. Getting forces down on slippery surface with a minimum contact patch works for go-carts (smaller series where rain tires are not allowed), rally on winter tires and so on.

Regarding the lean angle vs contact patch it's common knowledge that road and racing tires have a larger patch on the side rather than stright up. I really see no sense in arguing if the world is round or not. Of course the downside of pushing the bike down under you to get an angle is that if you slide you will go down without possibilty to save it. But then again it's not really a theme. On the wet you race the bike to get both control and smaller contact patch.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 22 2008, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe in January 07, but it didn't last long

I'd say january/february is as close as it gets

Hopefully Melandri can get his mind around the Duke & the support he needs, I can't believe his results and how far behind he his. This guy has great talent and appears to be an enigma. What's the deal? Is he only good when he has the bike set up for him, everything is perfect and his confidence high? How many more opportunities does he have before him? I just don't get it I'm afraid??? Or am I expecting or anticipating too much from him.. Is it all too soon.. I tend to think if Stoner can do it then certainly so can Marco! Perhaps the problem is mostly mental or psychological though or he can't get the best out of his machine and set up to match his ability. Is it the people around him or the rider himself.. Who knows?? All I can do is wonder and speculate?!

I cant believe some of you are comparing Barros's situation on an underfunded sattelite team with Melandri's factory ride.It has nothing to do with the other.I promise he has his own set up technician but it appears the setup that Melandri wants just doesnt exist on the Ducati Chassi.Casey,so far is the only rider that has overcome the fear of the bucking bronco and just lets the bike do what it does and is not afraid of the outcome.It reminds me of what Tommy Hayden said when he went to the Yoshimura Suzuki.He says their was a level where you got to on that bike that was uncomfortable but if you could mentally go past that level,the bike got better the harder you pushed it.Sounds strange,biut that might be what the other riders may be experiencing with the Ducati.A mental barrier that they have yet to overcome

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Mar 22 2008, 07:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Casey,so far is the only rider that has overcome the fear of the bucking bronco and just lets the bike do what it does and is not afraid of the outcome.
This is the best characterization I've read so far to explain Stoner's success in relation to the other Ducatis. I was bored last night so I watched the Qatar race again. I had three impressions:

1. The Ducati that Stoner was riding wiggled, squirmed, twisted, and protested throughout the track (specially coming out of corners).

2. Stoner was un-phased by this instability of his bike.

(3. Unrelated to this topic, I was very impressed with Toesland. His pass on Lorenzo was sheer joy to watch and I kept rewinding it to see it).


On topic, Casey is a mad man. The impression I get is he squeezes out every last bit of juice from his bike, the bike protests under his heavy handed grip, but then conforms to his demands. (Using the Bronco analogy is a great visual Povol.)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Mar 22 2008, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i've been saying it for over a year now, he rides the snot out of that ducati.

the way it squirms and .... out of the corners.
Yeah, but when I say it people listen.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Mar 23 2008, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i've been saying it for over a year now, he rides the snot out of that ducati.

the way it squirms and .... out of the corners.

I'd agree wit that ....

Its like I said in this post:

http://www.powerslide.net/forum/January-te...658#entry108658

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jan 25 2008, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Melandri, Elias, and Guintoli ..... oh dear ( I am starting to think Stoner has a deathwish and thats what it takes to ride a Duc. ..... no ok really I think it is just not the bike for everyone and indeed is like a brumby stallion ...... ie. its the best horse out there ...... but it takes someone "different" to ride it.

Also did anyone else notice the long front end lose he had on that big sweeping left hander at Qatar? He seemed to keep it going more on the back wheel when it was happening ... magic to watch..

Only after Qatar I also wonder if he was exhibiting a "want to win", something that perhaps we have been missing for some years in Motogp?? Many races have looked like a freight train doddle to me in some of the years past. Riders seemed to slot into a spot early and not fight, almost acceptng that that was where they were meant to be.

Many of the rookies exhibited that want to win too, Lorenzo, Dovi and especially Toseland ( I think he fought that second rate Yam to that position more than any other rider than Stoner that night ). But the rookies did seem more tentative than Stoner did/does, Lorenzo looked very keen but I think he could not keep it up yet with Stoner .....

Time will tell though ..... 2008 is sure to be good.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Mar 22 2008, 06:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>nice theory except in 07 loris was the "main man"
if you READ my post properly, thats what i said
case was meant to be the rabbit last year , don't know where you are from , but over here, a rabbit is an also-ran

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (convertmel @ Mar 24 2008, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>if you READ my post properly, thats what i said
case was meant to be the rabbit last year , don't know where you are from , but over here, a rabbit is an also-ran

oh .... over here ..... same place as Pinky ..... a Rabbit is the thing everyone is chasing


That .... or a rabbit can also be a drongo/...../looney

But if you said "he went like a rabbit" its the thing thats out in front..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 24 2008, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>oh .... over here ..... same place as Pinky ..... a Rabbit is the thing everyone is chasing


That .... or a rabbit can also be a drongo/...../looney

But if you said "he went like a rabbit" its the thing thats out in front..
no mate, he was the rabbit ie pretty similar to his honda days, good in the odd race but mostly dusting off his leathers and getting a lift back to the pits on raceday
more power to him now tho'
he's the man