Sete needs to lose a little weight

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 4 2008, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't disagree concerning melandri and stoner.

It was said by ducati I think last year that he could ride individual laps on the gp07 just as fast with the tc turned off, but I guess they would say that, wouldn't they ? However, in this vein it seems excessively ingenuous even for casey to come out and say his improvement is due to electronics when he has spent the better part of a year being pissed off with people saying that it is the electronics and not him winning, so I wonder if it is a smokescreen to disguise improvements elsewhere. There has been speculation that they have made a hardware alteration, in particular the swing-arm, or that they have changed the whole engine. I hesitate to say it, maybe tyres come into it.
I'm not sure Ducati would bother with the political smoke and mirrors you know? I've seen teams downplay improvements on practice days so that they will be underestimated, but not the other way around. I think Ducati made the improvements and just should have said nothing. They actually negatively fueled the rumor mill themselves I think by crediting the bike rather than their rider.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Doc 79 @ Jul 5 2008, 04:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not sure Ducati would bother with the political smoke and mirrors you know? I've seen teams downplay improvements on practice days so that they will be underestimated, but not the other way around. I think Ducati made the improvements and just should have said nothing. They actually negatively fueled the rumor mill themselves I think by crediting the bike rather than their rider.

Unless they are using carbonfibre bits from the gp09 or something and want to throw the other companies off this development trail. I don't know enough about engineering (ie almost nothing) but you are probably right that this is unlikely, because going carbon fibre would seem likely to be all or nothing. As you imply, it is probably also in ducati's interest to credit the bike rather than the rider.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Jul 5 2008, 08:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If the other two Ducati's were in the top 10 i would agree, but Melandri is not an overrated rider and hes a 250cc champ.

Stoner is the only one thats proved he can ride the Duke, If Sete is not in the Top 10 then thats more evidence.

For Me Stoner is not better than Melandri technically... but he has bigger balls and rides that thing on the very edge.

Without Electronics and a good tech guy or a controlled ECU it would not be possible to ride like this, he would not be in the top 10 either.
How is Melandri better than Stoner 'technically'? What is your definition of 'technically'?

In any case, it's a joke to say that Stoner wouldn't be in the top 10 if it weren't fot electronics...An absolute joke. Stoner is blistering fast, even with TC off(i.e. qualifying laps...you know, the laps that Stoner dominates?).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Jul 5 2008, 10:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How is Melandri better than Stoner 'technically'? What is your definition of 'technically'?

In any case, it's a joke to say that Stoner wouldn't be in the top 10 if it weren't fot electronics...An absolute joke. Stoner is blistering fast, even with TC off(i.e. qualifying laps...you know, the laps that Stoner dominates?).
I don't get it. Stoner won the championship outright. So his bike had a bit of an advantage but not so much that he won EVERY race. It is obvious that Melandri has issues to say the least with the bike but he is still a great rider if you look at his previous record. Melandri isn't better than stoner since he is kickin marcos butt, Stoner is better and a bit more versatile at the moment.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Jul 5 2008, 10:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How is Melandri better than Stoner 'technically'? What is your definition of 'technically'?

In any case, it's a joke to say that Stoner wouldn't be in the top 10 if it weren't fot electronics...An absolute joke. Stoner is blistering fast, even with TC off(i.e. qualifying laps...you know, the laps that Stoner dominates?).
are you saying they turn off tc for qualifying ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 5 2008, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>are you saying they turn off tc for qualifying ?

i dont know about that, but it makes sense that the fuel management system is bypassed for quali.

surely TC is just as effective no matter what the grip level?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 5 2008, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>are you saying they turn off tc for qualifying ? No just Stoner.

He's a man of many talents:
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Jul 5 2008, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No just Stoner.

He's a man of many talents:
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Jul 5 2008, 01:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No just Stoner.

He's a man of many talents:
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......that's ...... awesome

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 6 2008, 03:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>are you saying they turn off tc for qualifying ?
Yes, Stoner commented in an interview with AMCN that he usually does qualifying laps without TC. He also stated that TC makes no difference over a single lap on fresh tyres. The true value of TC is realized when the tyres are worn, or in the wet.

I'm not sure why this comes as a surprise to you. With all due respect, perhaps your knowledge of motorcycling is elementary, but qualifying tyres hardly break loose(but when they do, they do so in grand fashion). Qualifying tyres don't break traction very easily, therefore TC is largely unnecessary(unless the rider makes a big mistake).

The greater the level of TC, the more the power of the engine is sucked out. If there is a great level of TC, the bike just doesn't really go anywhere.

I think Casey deserves much more respect. Although I personally prefer Valentino, Casey is a remarkably talented rider(imo, perhaps the only true threat to Valentino on the grid. Dani has shown that Vale has his number in duels). Casey has humiliated many respected and esteemed riders on the same machine, including Marco Melandri and Loris Capirossi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Jul 6 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, Stoner commented in an interview with AMCN that he usually does qualifying laps without TC. He also stated that TC makes no difference over a single lap on fresh tyres. The true value of TC is realized when the tyres are worn, or in the wet.Can you provide a link to that please?

Because I've never read anything of the sort. I remember some desperate fans saying that in pre-season testing he didn't use any TC, but upon viewing videos it became obvious just how mental they were.

So back it up please.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Jul 6 2008, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Although I personally prefer Valentino
Although I don't necessarily disagree with many of your posts, I do find this unlikely . I personally respect valentino but don't resile from being a stoner fan.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Jul 6 2008, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, Stoner commented in an interview with AMCN that he usually does qualifying laps without TC. He also stated that TC makes no difference over a single lap on fresh tyres. The true value of TC is realized when the tyres are worn, or in the wet.

I'm not sure why this comes as a surprise to you. With all due respect, perhaps your knowledge of motorcycling is elementary, but qualifying tyres hardly break loose(but when they do, they do so in grand fashion). Qualifying tyres don't break traction very easily, therefore TC is largely unnecessary(unless the rider makes a big mistake).

The greater the level of TC, the more the power of the engine is sucked out. If there is a great level of TC, the bike just doesn't really go anywhere.

I think Casey deserves much more respect. Although I personally prefer Valentino, Casey is a remarkably talented rider(imo, perhaps the only true threat to Valentino on the grid. Dani has shown that Vale has his number in duels). Casey has humiliated many respected and esteemed riders on the same machine, including Marco Melandri and Loris Capirossi.
well thats the first ive head of that and it would apear most others in this thread are surprised to learn this.

maybe compared to other's my knowledge of the sport ive followed for over 25 years is elementary but one thing i do no is to take information from MCN and some forum members with a sertain degree of scepticism.

is this a fact or just your opinion ? the way i understand it is TC make the power usable so any power that was "sucked out" would have been the extra power that would have have got you into trouble anyway.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Jul 6 2008, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Can you provide a link to that please?

Because I've never read anything of the sort. I remember some desperate fans saying that in pre-season testing he didn't use any TC, but upon viewing videos it became obvious just how mental they were.

So back it up please.
First of all, I am not referring to MCN of England. I am referring to Australian motorcycle news, a (very reputable) magazine. Obviously, I can't provide links to magazines.

I can scan it if you wish?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 6 2008, 10:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well thats the first ive head of that and it would apear most others in this thread are surprised to learn this.

maybe compared to other's my knowledge of the sport ive followed for over 25 years is elementary but one thing i do no is to take information from MCN and some forum members with a sertain degree of scepticism.

is this a fact or just your opinion ? the way i understand it is TC make the power usable so any power that was "sucked out" would have been the extra power that would have have got you into trouble anyway.
Again, I did not take 'knowledge' from MCN of UK. This was an interview with Casey Stoner, in the Australian magazine, Australian Motorcycle News.

I don't wish to be rude, but the TC does little to make the TC usuable(the power delivery and torque curve is regulated largely by fuel injection mapping). TC's job is to ...... the ignition when losses of traction are detected by the feedback loop.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Jul 7 2008, 05:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Again, I did not take 'knowledge' from MCN of UK. This was an interview with Casey Stoner, in the Australian magazine, Australian Motorcycle News.

I don't wish to be rude, but the TC does little to make the TC usuable(the power delivery and torque curve is regulated largely by fuel injection mapping). TC's job is to ...... the ignition when losses of traction are detected by the feedback loop.
I think somebody from ducati also said last year that stoner could do individual laps just as fast without tc, which doesn't make it true of course. It is too long ago for me to remember the link, but I think it was mentioned on this forum.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 7 2008, 06:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think somebody from ducati also said last year that stoner could do individual laps just as fast without tc, which doesn't make it true of course. It is too long ago for me to remember the link, but I think it was mentioned on this forum.

I see, so the TC is just to help him not fall off then

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Jul 7 2008, 05:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I see, so the TC is just to help him not fall off then
I make no claim to engineering or mechanical expertise, but I personally think it is more than that. I think it allows you to push the limits of the bike as casey obviously does without as much chance of dying, although 800cc motogp bikes can still be dangerous as lorenzo and hopkins will testify. But it also does seem to allow casey in particular to accelerate very fast out of corners, even leaned right over and on what are not traditional racing lines as in the first corner at laguna seca last year and I think early in the phillip island race last year where he re-passed pedrosa immediately after being passed. Whether the bikes with less developed tc could have done this in the past I don't know, but they didn't seem to do it anyway, and I go with the theory that some of the more experienced riders find it unnatural; I think I was one of the first to advance that theory on this forum at least.

What I don't necessarily agree with is that ducati continues to have a marked software advantage, given the resources of honda and yamaha in particular and the number of software engineers in the world. I believe tc has enabled them to maximise the advantage they get from the power advantage I think they probably do have under the current race fuel restrictions.

Again this is purely speculative, but I think the recent improvement is more likely due to an improvement in the engine management or even a substantial change in the engine itself which has allowed smoother power delivery rather than an improvement in tc per se. It is also possible that the bridgestone tyre development has now caught up with the requirements of the gp08. I guess they could also be using the gp09 carbon fibre chassis and have it camouflaged to look like the gp08 .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Jul 5 2008, 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't get it. Stoner won the championship outright. So his bike had a bit of an advantage but not so much that he won EVERY race. It is obvious that Melandri has issues to say the least with the bike but he is still a great rider if you look at his previous record. Melandri isn't better than stoner since he is kickin marcos butt, Stoner is better and a bit more versatile at the moment.
How can you say someone is a bit more versatile 'at the moment'? You can't say Stoner is more versatile than Melandri. You can only say that at the moment they are both riding a bike which Stoner can handle and Melandri cannot. Would you have said in 2006 that Melandri was more versatile than Stoner, just because he was staying on his bike? We all know how Stoner and Melandri both performed on client Hondas. Unless you mean something else by versatility?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jul 7 2008, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How can you say someone is a bit more versatile 'at the moment'? You can't say Stoner is more versatile than Melandri. You can only say that at the moment they are both riding a bike which Stoner can handle and Melandri cannot. Would you have said in 2006 that Melandri was more versatile than Stoner, just because he was staying on his bike? We all know how Stoner and Melandri both performed on client Hondas. Unless you mean something else by versatility?


Well said Biker Girl I totaly agree.