Screamer v. Big Bang (Redux?)

Yamaha Screamer wil never return..

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...ver_return.html

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Masao Furusawa, Yamaha's general manager of Engineering Operations, likes listening to Kawasaki's new screamer engine - but says the even-firing design will never again power a Yamaha
MotoGP
bike.

"We will never use a screamer engine again. Never!" said Furusawa, during an exclusive interview with Crash.net. "We threw away the screamer engine in 2003."

I wonder why he picks only on Kawasaki and not Honda or Ducati. Is it because their V4 (as opposed to inline) make the screamer configuration more manageble?

PRESISLY why Yamaha will lose Rossi at the end of the year..... cause they're idiots.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 12 2008, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>PRESISLY why Yamaha will lose Rossi at the end of the year..... cause they're idiots.

It doesn't mean alot yet... certainly while Rossi's still racing it won't be an issue.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 13 2008, 02:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>PRESISLY why Yamaha will lose Rossi at the end of the year..... cause they're idiots.

If u knew anything about engine dynamics and there affect on handling u wouldn't say that,
Yamaha know that the big bang engines keep engine vibration down too maximize user control of the motorcycle....

Rossi has the amazing ability to push a bike almost beyond the limit of cohesion and with a screamer engine confusing the feel of the tyres that wouldn't be possible....

CASE CLOSED

I believe Rossi tested them in before the start of the 04 season, and said no. It was Rossi/Burgess who got yamaha drop it.

But this is 800cc we have now. It might be of use and easier to handle in the inline four.

If I remember right, don't screamers consume more gas/fuel?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mekizo @ Feb 13 2008, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If u knew anything about engine dynamics and there affect on handling u wouldn't say that,
Yamaha know that the big bang engines keep engine vibration down too maximize user control of the motorcycle....

CASE CLOSED

Why don't you tell us exactly how the big bang keep the enginge vibrations down as opsed to the screamer?

Well explaining it in great detail wouldn't be any good because your a ....... great guy...

But as simply as it is here is a quick explanation

Because the engine fires in an uneven pattern it gives time for the engine to settle,
but in the case of the screamer engine the even firing pattern give the engine no time to settle in between firing.....

Capice

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mekizo @ Feb 13 2008, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Because the engine fires in an uneven pattern it gives time for the engine to settle,

oh dear

After the baninging my head against a brick wall I did with the attempts to reinvent the two stroke thread I was going to do the Sgt. Shultz jobby here and backed away mumbling "I know nuttink I see nuttink" ...

but I will just say that "settling" is for steaks or cups of tea

maybe some real simple sites ....

allways start with wiki ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_balance

but these links from there are informative:

http://www.captain.norton.clara.net/cnn2sec14.html

and

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/smooth2.htm

inherently straight 4's are a hassle.


But anyway ... really its all a mute point as we all know Rossi could ride a dog to win a WC!! I hear he allready did it on a Camel

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mekizo @ Feb 13 2008, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well explaining it in great detail wouldn't be any good because your a friendly genius...



Capice


The guy asked a reasonable question, and that comment wasn't called for.

another cliche...

"never say never"

wonder how long it will be before yamaha might change their minds?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mekizo @ Feb 13 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well explaining it in great detail wouldn't be any good because your a smooth talker...

But as simply as it is here is a quick explanation

Because the engine fires in an uneven pattern it gives time for the engine to settle,
but in the case of the screamer engine the even firing pattern give the engine no time to settle in between firing.....

Capice

Yeah, sorry for being such a ....... ...... I know I dont' know .... about engines or racing, but the bikes are so pretty to watch, thats why I'm into this. Now I hoped to learn something new but you don't even give it a try as this had nothing to do with what I asked about has it? I thought it wasn't the egine that "settle". I thought that was about the rear wheeel and power pulses to the rear wheel and surly that has nothing to do with engine vibrations? But then again, I know nuthin.

Funny - but this is the same issue that changed flat track racing in the late 80's. Honda despite all its resources could not beat the Harleys on the dirt oval. Then they figured out that the firing pattern on the Harleys was was made them so tractable. Once they swiped the Harley firing pattern and made it their own - they would go on to win every ....... thing. After that you nobody gave a .... about Harley sponsorships.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mekizo @ Feb 13 2008, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well explaining it in great detail wouldn't be any good because your a fantasticly fun person...

But as simply as it is here is a quick explanation

Because the engine fires in an uneven pattern it gives time for the engine to settle,
but in the case of the screamer engine the even firing pattern give the engine no time to settle in between firing.....

Capice
Shame on you....
JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mekizo @ Feb 13 2008, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Because the engine fires in an uneven pattern it gives time for the engine to settle,
but in the case of the screamer engine the even firing pattern give the engine no time to settle in between firing.....respectfully mekizo that's nonsense. when yamaha went away from the screaming, 500-esque m1 of 02/03 to rossi's easier to ride 'irregular' firing m1 of 04 a balance shaft had to be designed into the engine to smooth out vibrations. vibrating engine=tired rider=slow rider.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 13 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why don't you tell us exactly how the big bang keep the enginge vibrations down as opsed to the screamer?put him out of his misery fish, don't bait the guy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mekizo @ Feb 13 2008, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well explaining it in great detail wouldn't be any good because your a wonderful fellow & i like u...

But as simply as it is here is a quick explanation

Because the engine fires in an uneven pattern it gives time for the engine to settle,
but in the case of the screamer engine the even firing pattern give the engine no time to settle in between firing.....

Capice

You`ve been here how long?And you are designating who are idiots.Cheeky .......,.... off.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mekizo @ Feb 12 2008, 06:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If u knew anything about engine dynamics and there affect on handling u wouldn't say that,
Yamaha know that the big bang engines keep engine vibration down too maximize user control of the motorcycle....

Rossi has the amazing ability to push a bike almost beyond the limit of cohesion and with a screamer engine confusing the feel of the tyres that wouldn't be possible....

CASE CLOSED



OMG Please, I've forgotten more about engines than you will ever learn ....I've been a mechanic for over 20 years...from classics to imports to motorbikes....i'm employed NOW with small engine R&D company....the big bang set up was great for the 990s cause ALL the bikes had HP to spare...unlike the 800s...

all you did is reword what Furusawa said your "theory" is crap like his...........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 13 2008, 06:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>OMG Please, I've forgotten more about engines than you will ever learn ....I've been a mechanic for over 20 years...from classics to imports to motorbikes....i'm employed NOW with small engine R&D company....the big bang set up was great for the 990s cause ALL the bikes had HP to spare...unlike the 800s...

all you did is reword what Furusawa said your "theory" is crap like his...........


well, comparing your resume to Furusawa's, i guess i'll have to go with your opinion.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (drumfu @ Feb 13 2008, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well, comparing your resume to Furusawa's, i guess i'll have to go with your opinion.

and another turd floats to the top..

I was talking about Mekizo, if i wanted .... from you, i'd scape it off my boot...piss off.

I think babelfish is both an engineer and a present or former motor bike racer at a fairly high level, so it is perhaps not wise to call him an ..... particularly in a technical thread like this one.

I have or had some acquaintance with physics, but little with engineering or mechanics, but for what it is worth I can see some argument as to why rossi might not like a screamer engine. As I understand it the power of the 800s whilst less than the 990s is still substantial compared to the 500s, and it has been said the screamer 800s are only rideable because of the electronics, something we have been arguing about for the last several months. A screamer yamaha presumably would require more electronics and take away from the "feel" which rossi apparently likes to have. However, despite what mr furosawa says the bridgestones seem to be able to cope with screamer engines anyway; whether this is due to electronics or bridgestone having advanced the state of the art of tyre technology I am unsure.

I don't know whether it is an urban myth, but I always liked the story that mick doohan was supposed to have favoured the development of the screamer 500 2-stroke honda engine not so much because it made the bike faster but more because he thought no-one other than him could ride a honda so equipped .