Schwantz agrees with the sane people

povol · Nov 13, 2015

Rossi ...... up, but his penalty didnt cost him anything

Schwantz: ?Rossi was in trouble even without grid penalty?

bh84 · Nov 13, 2015

He didn't necessarily agree, what he said was, from his view and what he saw, he believes both riders were in the wrong and MM should not have been cutting across VR's front wheel under braking like he was. He also says that Rossi's perspective is unique to him, he's the only one who really saw how close MM came to him during those laps. From a spectator standpoint he believes Rossi should have been penalized.

He also said that although MM could have been saving his tires for the last lap at PI, that he didnt really have to thanks to the electronics on modern bikes. MM has to know that if Shwantz does.

IMO its a well balanced article, I still believe Dorna ruined the end of the series with the penalty they laid down, but Rossi definitely ...... up

jmmk · Nov 13, 2015

povol said:
Rossi ...... up, but his penalty didnt cost him anything

Schwantz: ?Rossi was in trouble even without grid penalty?

OMG. I feel sorry for Shwantz now. He is about to join the list with JL, MM, all us reasonable fans to get the full wrath of the Yellows

michaelm · Nov 13, 2015

bh84 said:
He didn't necessarily agree, what he said was, from his view and what he saw, he believes both riders were in the wrong and MM should not have been cutting across VR's front wheel under braking like he was. He also says that Rossi's perspective is unique to him, he's the only one who really saw how close MM came to him during those laps. From a spectator standpoint he believes Rossi should have been penalized.

He also said that although MM could have been saving his tires for the last lap at PI, that he didnt really have to thanks to the electronics on modern bikes. MM has to know that if Shwantz does.

IMO its a well balanced article, I still believe Dorna ruined the end of the series with the penalty they laid down, but Rossi definitely ...... up

That isn't what Schwantz said at all, he didn't say what MM did was wrong in terms of being a transgression against Rossi, but rather that he was putting himself at risk of being taken out.

In the midst of totally disagreeing with your views in regard to all 3 races and in regard to Valentino getting a penalty despite historically being something of a Rossi fan, he does internally contradict himself as is his wont (like Casey Stoner he has a tendency towards stream of consciousness in interviews), saying both that MM needed to preserve his tyres and that modern electronics mean that he shouldn't have to do so. He does directly say it was not unusual for him to be faster at the end of the race, and that he was clearly having problems earlier in the race. What is your explanation for Rossi being faster and Lorenzo being slower at the end of races as has sometimes occurred this year, and was the only way he was going to beat Lorenzo in any of the last 3 races, btw?

You can believe whatever you like, but if he deserves a penalty which Schwantz says he does along with everyone else, including most importantly RD (who rather than Dorna are still at least theoretically responsible for adjudication btw), the sport has become WWE wrestling if he doesn't get one. Schwantz also says he didn't have the pace at Valencia in any case, as many have been saying on here.

Gaz · Nov 13, 2015

jmmk said:
OMG. I feel sorry for Shwantz now. He is about to join the list with JL, MM, all us reasonable fans to get the full wrath of the Yellows

When I first read the article on a different site I though 'oh sh*t, what have you done', and even moreso as he is a very big fan (and some may say apologist) for Rossi.

paparazzo · Nov 13, 2015

povol said:
Rossi ...... up, but his penalty didnt cost him anything

You have serious reading comprehension, perhaps a mental disorder. Go back and re-read the article again.

bh84 said:
He didn't necessarily agree, what he said was, from his view and what he saw, he believes both riders were in the wrong and MM should not have been cutting across VR's front wheel under braking like he was. He also says that Rossi's perspective is unique to him, he's the only one who really saw how close MM came to him during those laps. From a spectator standpoint he believes Rossi should have been penalized.

He also said that although MM could have been saving his tires for the last lap at PI, that he didnt really have to thanks to the electronics on modern bikes. MM has to know that if Shwantz does.

IMO its a well balanced article, I still believe Dorna ruined the end of the series with the penalty they laid down, but Rossi definitely ...... up

Wasting your time here, Everything they read will be spun the other way and you will be personally attacked. You read it right, Schwantz basically says MM had it coming to him in Sepang and couldn't be sure what MM was doing in Valencia. He basically confirmed all the FACTS (observable) that sociopaths on this site keep denying and keep spinning around despite admissions from the champion himself. Apparently people here were in a better position to see what was going on at the track in PI, Sepang and Valencia :spin:

jmmk · Nov 13, 2015

Gaz said:
When I first read the article on a different site I though 'oh sh*t, what have you done', and even moreso as he is a very big fan (and some may say apologist) for Rossi.

The horde will turn this around somehow as they're wont to do. Shwantz now on hit list. And Rossi will come out with a statement saying Shwantz was never a fan of his.

jmmk · Nov 13, 2015

paparazzo said:
You have serious reading comprehension, perhaps a mental disorder. Go back and re-read the article again.

Wasting your time here, Everything they read will be spun the other way and you will be personally attacked. You read it right, Schwantz basically says MM had it coming to him in Sepang and couldn't be sure what MM was doing in Valencia. He basically confirmed all the FACTS (observable) that sociopaths on this site keep denying and keep spinning around despite admissions from the champion himself. Apparently people here were in a better position to see what was going on at the track in PI, Sepang and Valencia :spin:

Were you or ANYBODY in the world questioning the PI race for 1 second until Rossi opened his big mouth?

Dr No · Nov 13, 2015

I still find amusement at Rossi's amazing qualifying effort at Valencia. That's the way to put pressure on JL, Vale. Well done.

Gaz · Nov 13, 2015

paparazzo said:
You have serious reading comprehension, perhaps a mental disorder. Go back and re-read the article again.

Wasting your time here, Everything they read will be spun the other way and you will be personally attacked. You read it right, Schwantz basically says MM had it coming to him in Sepang and couldn't be sure what MM was doing in Valencia. He basically confirmed all the FACTS (observable) that sociopaths on this site keep denying and keep spinning around despite admissions from the champion himself. Apparently people here were in a better position to see what was going on at the track in PI, Sepang and Valencia :spin:

Both Rossi and Marquez were out of line in the Malaysian Grand Prix, according to Schwantz, and it started with the pre-race build up.

He said: “First Valentino stirs up trouble in the Thursday press conference complaining about Marc in Australia. That gave Marc the perfect reason to go, ‘OK, screw you, I will mess with you this weekend!’ Rossi then got tired of it, and later admitted that yes, he did something wrong.

“So of course they were going to penalize him for it. Marquez isn’t completely faultless because if you turn in on a guy twice with your brake lever exposed, that’s too risky, you’re asking to be knocked off. I don’t think how it turned out was what Rossi intended; I don’t think he sent Marquez to the ground on purpose, but never mind that – the guy did end up on the ground.

Maybe it is my blinded bias and rossi hating attitude (I mean, it mus be given that I dffer in views and all who have a differnt view are rossi hating etc etc yaddah yaddah) but please, where the living f*ck does Schwantz say anything close to 'MM had it coming'?

What he does say is that turning in twice with your brake lever exposed opens up for something to happen.

His comment about the brake level is actually interesting as there will be some who jump on this as support for the level being exposed and thus possibly affected by a foot ............... hmmmm, what is Schwantz really saying here (conspiracy theorists unit)

I do also notice that you missed that he said that VR was equally to blame at Sepang and should have been penalised

Now, you mention that he confirmed the FACTS .......... what facts are they?

Again, search the definition of FACT as Schwantz tempers everything he says with with 'but only those involved would know', or in the case of VR 'it is only Vale inside that helmet and leathers so his perspective is unique'.

From - fact - definition of fact in English from the Oxford dictionary

Fact
A thing that is known or proved to be true:
the most commonly known fact about hedgehogs is that they have fleas

Opinion
A view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge:
that, in my opinion, is right
the area’s residents share vociferous opinions about the future

In terms of the racing - the facts are clear, in terms of opinions they are less so

michaelm · Nov 13, 2015

paparazzo said:
Wasting your time here, Everything they read will be spun the other way and you will be personally attacked. You read it right, Schwantz basically says MM had it coming to him in Sepang and couldn't be sure what MM was doing in Valencia. He basically confirmed all the FACTS (observable) that sociopaths on this site keep denying and keep spinning around despite admissions from the champion himself. Apparently people here were in a better position to see what was going on at the track in PI, Sepang and Valencia :spin:

Of course everyone has their own slant, this is the human condition, from which you and your cohort seem to think you are immune, with only other people being horrendously biased while your unsupported opinion is indisputable fact. Personal attacks are apparently also a matter of viewpoint, obviously being completely justifiable if the attacker is pro-Rossi.

All this is only Kevin's opinion as well of course, but perhaps interesting because he was a career long Suzuki rider in the premier class and has no particular ties to Rossi, JL or MM, although in my opinion (which unlike you I recognise is prone to bias) he has always been something of a Rossi fan.

Please inform as to how these direct quotes have been misconstrued.

"Even if he hadn't had a penalty but had still started the race in 12th after the mistake in qualifying I don't think he had the speed to match the top 3".

"But from what I saw there was no legitimate reason for Rossi to complain after Australia".

"In these situations race direction has to do something, 3 penalty points were the minimum they could come up with" .

And to address your main point, how does "Marquez isn't completely faultless because if you turn in on a guy twice with your brake lever exposed that's too risky, you're asking to be knocked off" imply anything in regard to Rossi having cause for complaint, rather than that MM was showing poor judgement by putting himself at risk of being knocked down ?

Cool Blue · Nov 13, 2015

Well, I guess it's Kevin's job to surf the media wave and he does appear to have his "eminently reasonable" hat on, so, whatever... All you need to know about the whole deal is summed up in these two extracts form the article:

"Schwantz did admit that no one but the protagonists know the full story, however."

"However, Schwantz admitted he was "not 100 percent certain" of Marquez's motives in the finale."

The mere fact that they feel the need to even include those statements of the blindingly obvious sums up the childish level of thinking in the "debate".

Gaz · Nov 13, 2015

Cool Blue said:
"However, Schwantz admitted he was "not 100 percent certain" of Marquez's motives in the finale."

He did certainly hedge his bets ............. like all of us, he (I suspect) has NFI but for a person who has been very Pro-Rossi, there are some 'brave' comments given the recent vitriol

“If it was me racing say, Eddie Lawson and Wayne Rainey back in the day, and those two were competing for the championship and I wasn’t in the hunt, then I would ride slightly differently against them in the final race. Unless I had a clear-cut opportunity to go by at the end of a straightaway on the brakes, or could pounce on a mistake, I wasn’t going to take an extra-risky move. The last thing I’d want to do was be the deciding factor in the outcome of the championship.

“Was that how Marquez was thinking after all the fuss about the previous two races? I don’t know for sure, but to me he looked on the limit as he was chasing Lorenzo. Those were fast lap times they were both putting up."

Cool Blue · Nov 13, 2015

michaelm said:
...And to address your main point, how does "Marquez isn't completely faultless because if you turn in on a guy twice with your brake lever exposed that's too risky, you're asking to be knocked off" imply anything in regard to Rossi having cause for complaint, rather than that MM was showing poor judgement by putting himself at risk of Rossi knocking him down ?

In Kevin's day and in the recent past, that was a risk and was in fact one of the explanations offered in support of Biagi's elbow action against Rossi, but, even though it's not designed to protect against a direct kick, the guards are designed to protect the brake lever from the risk he mentions, so is there really a risk as he claims?

Cool Blue · Nov 13, 2015

Gaz said:
He did certainly hedge his bets ............. like all of us, he (I suspect) has NFI but for a person who has been very Pro-Rossi, there are some 'brave' comments given the recent vitriol

“If it was me racing say, Eddie Lawson and Wayne Rainey back in the day, and those two were competing for the championship and I wasn’t in the hunt, then I would ride slightly differently against them in the final race. Unless I had a clear-cut opportunity to go by at the end of a straightaway on the brakes, or could pounce on a mistake, I wasn’t going to take an extra-risky move. The last thing I’d want to do was be the deciding factor in the outcome of the championship.

“Was that how Marquez was thinking after all the fuss about the previous two races? I don’t know for sure, but to me he looked on the limit as he was chasing Lorenzo. Those were fast lap times they were both putting up."

Of course he has NFI unless MM told him different.

And what he would have done, over and above the written rules, is irrelevant. Those constraints are about maintaining popularity and political support in the paddock, that's all: it's a hedge against possible, future transgressions. All anyone can do if you break them is hate you for it.

michaelm · Nov 13, 2015

Cool Blue said:
In Kevin's day and in the recent past, that was a risk and was in fact one of the explanations offered in support of Biagi's elbow action against Rossi, but, even though it's not designed to protect against a direct kick, the guards are designed to protect the brake lever from the risk he mentions, so is there really a risk as he claims?

The question I was addressing was what Kevin said/meant, rather than whether he was correct.

Cool Blue · Nov 13, 2015

michaelm said:
The question I was addressing was what Kevin said/meant, rather than whether he was correct.

I was on a mobile device so didn't feel overly verbose but, sure, not meant as a challenge to your point, just an additional observation.

paparazzo · Nov 13, 2015

jmmk said:
Were you or ANYBODY in the world questioning the PI race for 1 second until Rossi opened his big mouth?

No, but the way he suddenly closed on the last lap after 'struggling' the previous 3 was an eye opener. Neither did Rossi, as he rode right up to MM after the finish and shook his hand. It was after he watched the race that it became 'more clear' what was happening.

Really not important what I think, I wasn't the one in the battle. Neither were you. Andrea also questioned the race, saying MM was really slow out of 5 and he kept passing him easily. This alone makes the theory somewhat credible so I have no question to doubt them.

And lol, at 2000 word spin doctor essays in response to ANYTHING that is evenly remotely pro VR as if these members are not entitled to an opinion that is contrary to theirs. Seems I ruffled a few feathers here. There are some people with serious mental disorders on this site.

Jumkie · Nov 13, 2015

paparazzo said:
You have serious reading comprehension, perhaps a mental disorder. Go back and re-read the article again.

Wasting your time here, Everything they read will be spun the other way and you will be personally attacked. You read it right, Schwantz basically says MM had it coming to him in Sepang and couldn't be sure what MM was doing in Valencia. He basically confirmed all the FACTS (observable) that sociopaths on this site keep denying and keep spinning around despite admissions from the champion himself. Apparently people here were in a better position to see what was going on at the track in PI, Sepang and Valencia :spin:

You've made a forum career, albeit a short one, of insulting then crying about insults. Wasting time here? Because you have yet to defend anything you've presented here logically. You can't do it because your position is untenable. Rossi screwed your feelings and you're lashing out at the world. And believe me, every time I think of you and your ilk, it's a source of pleasure.

Rossi lost his mind. The pressure got to him, lack of sleep precipitated a mental breakdown. And his weak minded delusional fans, the type with a propensity to fall in to cut worship, have followed suit.

He look, it Papapozza, let me guess your next post. I'm a ....... Hey other boppers, you're wasting you're time he because everyone is ......... According to you Rossi is right about Marc because.....and here is the silver bullet, because Rossi said so. Jim Jones.

Jumkie · Nov 13, 2015

jmmk said:
Were you or ANYBODY in the world questioning the PI race for 1 second until Rossi opened his big mouth?

Of course not. Papapozza is programmed to accept what Rossi says as fact. So his facts where issued to him Thursday before Sepang. Then Phillip Island was ......... And whatever happened at Sepang was Marquez fault. Its classic Religious extremism.

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