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Safety car vs Red Flag

BEN

BEN

Joined Sep 2005
4K Posts | 3+
Lancashire UK
It occured to me that I dont think I've ever seen the safety car come out, or even that they have that in the rules - maybe its just an instant red flag?

I was thinking this while at Sepang, coz of the crash in 125's, it seemed like a 25-30 min delay before the restart, when it only took the marshalls minutes to clear the track....why not bring out the flash BMW's instead?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BEN @ Sep 21 2006, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It occured to me that I dont think I've ever seen the safety car come out, or even that they have that in the rules - maybe its just an instant red flag?

I was thinking this while at Sepang, coz of the crash in 125's, it seemed like a 25-30 min delay before the restart, when it only took the marshalls minutes to clear the track....why not bring out the flash BMW's instead?

cause the fields so spread apart...if the car comes out, it might split the field and all of a sudden if your in first and "HAD" a clear track ahead...you'll be behind a ton of bikes and your competors on your booty again.
 
Yeah, and thats how it works in F1, and its better imo.

Say if they red flagged half way through a race and Rossi had a 10 sec lead, this doesnt get transferred to the restart though, so its the same thing.

I'm sure in GP, or WSB or F1 (cant remember) that after restarts they used aggregate times, which was a complete ..... to follow - you could have a rider in 3 place after the restart - but had +2 secs, so they could win - even though they finished 3rd.
 
Hmm but wouldn't having a safty car reqier more fuel? And if it was a bad crash and the safty car was out for quite a few laps that would burn the fuel down. And cost more moeny.
 
I dont think motogp is short of money mate
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.............they knock laps of the total, so fuel consumption would be less. If it was a really bad crash, like the Montmelo one, then red flags would be appropriate..........just smaller crashes, like the 125 one which was cleared up v soon didnt warrant a restart imo
 
Yea I guess they got the money.... lol but for the race don't they put just enought fuel into the bikes for the number of laps they have to do?

Safty car would need more fuel and depends how slow they have to go around the track and for how long they could run out of fuel.

Well I don't think they would cary more fuel then they should anyways cauuse they would want to reduce how heavy the bike is to give it that extra push.
 
BEN aggregate times are used on WSBK for sure, I'm not too sure about the others. Those times are fair to the leaders but it sure is a pain in the ... figuring out who is winning!!

If there is a red flag or a delay of the race the total number of laps go down. The most recent example was the Phillip Island race where they cut down a lap so the riders would not have to worry about fuel as their bikes were left on at the grid waiting for the weather to clear out. Also, when restarts are done another warm-up lap is done and there goes more fuel and another reason laps are cut down.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BEN @ Sep 22 2006, 02:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If it was a really bad crash, like the Montmelo one, then red flags would be appropriate..........just smaller crashes, like the 125 one which was cleared up v soon didnt warrant a restart imo

agree
 
Sorry to dig this one back up, but having seen the BSB races recently its got me thinking. Its shown that it can be used effectively in bike racing, and I for one am all for it being introduced to MotoGP. In the modern age of TV schedules I think its a very efficient solution. As long as its not abused (see NASCAR) it should be fine.
 
Although safetey comes first and it is better to be safe then sorry, i feel that both safetey car deployments in this years BSB championship have not been fully necessary. This may make the racing more exciting but its not especially fair and i think they are just chucking it out there whenever they can. I think more grades in the flag system are needed, yellows and waved yellows remain but with another flag for slightly more serious but not red flag worthy incidents, because riders only slow down marginally for yellows these days to avoid losing time.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 16 2007, 12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Although safetey comes first and it is better to be safe then sorry, i feel that both safetey car deployments in this years BSB championship have not been fully necessary. This may make the racing more exciting but its not especially fair and i think they are just chucking it out there whenever they can. I think more grades in the flag system are needed, yellows and waved yellows remain but with another flag for slightly more serious but not red flag worthy incidents, because riders only slow down marginally for yellows these days to avoid losing time.
I do agree about that, certainly today at Thruxton it was completely pointless. This is what I meant about abusing it, which is something they need to avoid.
 
I’ve heard that they all got electronically control speeds while cruising through the pits, how those that work? Also I think that they use GPS timing systems with 0.000 secs accuracy (if a race ends closer than that then it has to be photo finish which has happened once I think). Anyway, could the GPS be used in case of accidents to set the riders in practically the same position as before the accident? I don’t know, maybe I am just to silly.
<
 
i must say thruxton bsb is the only time i can remember a saftry car comming out during a race,
they did change the rules in motogp a while back, no aggragate time just a second race which made it easer to follow. i think they should red flag rather then use safty cars because it may jepodise the track being cleaned properly if the martalls feel rushed. mabe they could try the safty car rule for a season and see how it works tho.
 
He'll be getting pretty pissed off with having his strategy ruined every race by some silly crash that barely needs the pace car, but its not actually cost him anything yet.
 
well i for 1 don't like the pace car idea at all. last year i think it was, there was a pace car incident at the 200 if my memory serves & it screwed up the racers royaly. some benefited others suffered & it was confusing. it changed the outcome of the race. i don't want to see this happen in gps. keep the damn cars off the track. i think toms flag idea is better.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Apr 16 2007, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well i for 1 don't like the pace car idea at all. last year i think it was, there was a pace car incident at the 200 if my memory serves & it screwed up the racers royaly. some benefited others suffered & it was confusing. it changed the outcome of the race. i don't want to see this happen in gps. keep the damn cars off the track. i think toms flag idea is better.
Surely a red flag would have pretty much the same effect, with much more inconvenience? The riders who had a lead would still be penalised
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Orrmate @ Apr 16 2007, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Surely a red flag would have pretty much the same effect, with much more inconvenience? The riders who had a lead would still be penalised

Problem is that a pace car will be used more frequently. No one complain when you have a multi bike crash with injured drivers and the race is stopped. It's quite another thing if the pace car come out on most races at around mid-race after a minor crash when the leader/leaders has buildt a gap.
Remember, they often build that gap at a cost. Worn tires might even put the leader at a disadvantage when the pacecar leave the track, while at a redflag they all start on fresh rubber.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 17 2007, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Remember, they often build that gap at a cost. Worn tires might even put the leader at a disadvantage when the pacecar leave the track, while at a redflag they all start on fresh rubber.
My answer to that is that 'this is racing'. Its a cliche, but .... really does happen. At the worst possible time usually. To use Lavilla as an example, maybe if in his strategy he took the safety car in mind and conserved his tyres a little more, it shouldnt be a problem. Its just something you have to accept could happen when you go out there, and incorporate into your plan.
 

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