Rossi was Ducatis 2nd choice??

Bunyip · Jan 18, 2011

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/s...-boss-surprised-at-stoner-departure/Post.aspx

"The Australian, who won the world title for Ducati in a memorable 2007 campaign, signed a deal to switch to the Repsol Honda squad as early as the second race last season.

He was offered a new Ducati contract but having chosen to join HRC, Ducati were able to complete the multi-million signing of Italian icon Valentino Rossi on a two-year deal."

So, Stoner had to leave Ducati for Rossi to be signed??

I have little doubt that Rossi would not have moved to Ducati if Stoner were still there. To flee a strong Lorenzo and arrive with a strong(er?) adversary in Stoner seems unlikely.

Could Ducati have afforded both?

Would Ducati have sacked Stoner to sign Rossi (presumably demanding CSs departure to get his signature)? Well they didn,t.

Would Stoner have stayed if Rossi did sign and accept him as a team-mate? I think Casey would have relished the challenge, but I think he was ready to move to Honda, so the question seems academic.

Could you then conclude that Stoner was Ducatis first choice?

If Stoner did not leave Ducati, what would Rossi have done then? Put up with Lorenzo? Move to Honda? Retire?

Goatboy · Jan 18, 2011

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

ptk50 · Jan 18, 2011

Bunyip said:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/s...-boss-surprised-at-stoner-departure/Post.aspx

"The Australian, who won the world title for Ducati in a memorable 2007 campaign, signed a deal to switch to the Repsol Honda squad as early as the second race last season.

He was offered a new Ducati contract but having chosen to join HRC, Ducati were able to complete the multi-million signing of Italian icon Valentino Rossi on a two-year deal."

So, Stoner had to leave Ducati for Rossi to be signed??

I have little doubt that Rossi would not have moved to Ducati if Stoner were still there. To flee a strong Lorenzo and arrive with a strong(er?) adversary in Stoner seems unlikely.

Could Ducati have afforded both?

Would Ducati have sacked Stoner to sign Rossi (presumably demanding CSs departure to get his signature)? Well they didn,t.

Would Stoner have stayed if Rossi did sign and accept him as a team-mate? I think Casey would have relished the challenge, but I think he was ready to move to Honda, so the question seems academic.

Could you then conclude that Stoner was Ducatis first choice?

If Stoner did not leave Ducati, what would Rossi have done then? Put up with Lorenzo? Move to Honda? Retire?

If Stoner had won more than one Championship, if Rossi had not screwed up his shoulder and then broken his leg, if Pedders had been more consistent, if Suzi had more power, if .........

Or more to the point if Ducati had wanted to keep Stoner so much they could have offered him real money - that they previously offered Hogay a multiple of Stoner's pay and Rossi's earnings are public domain could hardly have been a motivating for him.

All of these were factors in easing Stoner out at Ducati - the main sponsor plain didn't like him and his yeast infection had not endeared him to anyone. Crashing and general catastrophy on the track are pissers, but are seen as part of the sport - mysterious illness is not

But it's not all bad - everybody likes a change and a challenge. I'd bet a lot of Stoner's early season loss of form was lack of commitment during his Honda negotiations. When that was settled and he relaxed he rode some great races - PI was ImO the best

michaelm · Jan 18, 2011

ptk50 said:
If Stoner had won more than one Championship, if Rossi had not screwed up his shoulder and then broken his leg, if Pedders had been more consistent, if Suzi had more power, if .........

Or more to the point if Ducati had wanted to keep Stoner so much they could have offered him real money - that they previously offered Hogay a multiple of Stoner's pay and Rossi's earnings are public domain could hardly have been a motivating for him.

All of these were factors in easing Stoner out at Ducati - the main sponsor plain didn't like him and his yeast infection had not endeared him to anyone. Crashing and general catastrophy on the track are pissers, but are seen as part of the sport - mysterious illness is not

But it's not all bad - everybody likes a change and a challenge. I'd bet a lot of Stoner's early season loss of form was lack of commitment during his Honda negotiations. When that was settled and he relaxed he rode some great races - PI was ImO the best

I reckon stoner's decision ( and probably ducati's, or marlboro man's at least) was made when he had his health issues in 2009 and was disgruntled by ducati's/marlboro's (marlboro man's) attitude, which is why ducati pursued lorenzo at that time; with rossi bound for the world championship with yamaha then, ducati signing him was likely not even in prospect. Before valentino's injury last year, I recall reports of concern in the local italian press that ducati might end up with none of the top riders.

Bunyip · Jan 18, 2011

phew...............no more friendly fire

esco · Jan 18, 2011

I would have like for Rossi to stay at yamaha and Stoner to go to Honda. Jorge should have taken ducatis big money offer and challange on the duc but i guess he probably didn't want to be on that bike for reassons only he knows.

Mental Anarchist · Jan 18, 2011

ptk50 said:
If Stoner had won more than one Championship, if Rossi had not screwed up his shoulder and then broken his leg, if Pedders had been more consistent, if Suzi had more power, if .........

Or more to the point if Ducati had wanted to keep Stoner so much they could have offered him real money - that they previously offered Hogay a multiple of Stoner's pay and Rossi's earnings are public domain could hardly have been a motivating for him.

All of these were factors in easing Stoner out at Ducati - the main sponsor plain didn't like him and his yeast infection had not endeared him to anyone. Crashing and general catastrophy on the track are pissers, but are seen as part of the sport - mysterious illness is not

But it's not all bad - everybody likes a change and a challenge. I'd bet a lot of Stoner's early season loss of form was lack of commitment during his Honda negotiations. When that was settled and he relaxed he rode some great races - PI was ImO the best

Interesting how you start your post with all these if's as way of putting down the original post and then you grace us with some rippers of your own such as:

All of these were factors in easing Stoner out at Ducati - the main sponsor plain didn't like him and his yeast infection had not endeared him to anyone. Crashing and general catastrophy on the track are pissers, but are seen as part of the sport - mysterious illness is not

I am not aware of Marlboro's dislike for Stoner. I know they were unhappy with his absence but that is understandable because all their other riders were back markers who drew no attention to their brand. Then you suggest that his yeast infection, which is a pathetic attempt at humour and plagiarism as this is Curves comment, has not endeared him to ANYONE. Well I had full respect for Stoner for riding through the obvious illness that saw him unable to walk after getting off the bike whilst still beating all the other Ducati riders. Then he was man enough in the face of massive opposition and media scrutiny to take 3 races off so he could fix his health. And then he came back and totally spanked the field with some unbelievably dominate rides. I don't know what you get out of the sport but to me his conduct and performance was that of a real sportsMAN. You also then suggest that he was crash happy. Go ask Rossi why he wasn't prepared to take the Ducati to the limit and this is after Stoner had fixed up the disaster that he was given for a bike at the beginning of 2010.

All of that was bad but now you claim that the front of the bike had nothing to do with his crashes but it was his negotiations with Honda that made him have a bad start to the season.

Well I could say that Rossi used his shoulder and pending surgery as leverage in his negotiations to get allowance to test the Ducati. Rossi also circulated well down on his normal positions during this time which could quite possibly have also been a negotiation tool. Once it was settled and he could test he was suddenly running at the front again and surprise surprise no need to miss the last couple of races so he could get surgery.

I know you were trying to be funny but the least you could do is try and not be so damn pathetic whilst you do it.

Tom · Jan 19, 2011

They would have shipped Hayden out

DRILL · Jan 19, 2011

Tom said:
They would have shipped Hayden out

Bang on the money Tom.

Keshav · Jan 19, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
Interesting how you start your post with all these if's as way of putting down the original post and then you grace us with some rippers of your own such as:

All of these were factors in easing Stoner out at Ducati - the main sponsor plain didn't like him and his yeast infection had not endeared him to anyone. Crashing and general catastrophy on the track are pissers, but are seen as part of the sport - mysterious illness is not

I am not aware of Marlboro's dislike for Stoner. I know they were unhappy with his absence but that is understandable because all their other riders were back markers who drew no attention to their brand. Then you suggest that his yeast infection, which is a pathetic attempt at humour and plagiarism as this is Curves comment, has not endeared him to ANYONE. Well I had full respect for Stoner for riding through the obvious illness that saw him unable to walk after getting off the bike whilst still beating all the other Ducati riders. Then he was man enough in the face of massive opposition and media scrutiny to take 3 races off so he could fix his health. And then he came back and totally spanked the field with some unbelievably dominate rides. I don't know what you get out of the sport but to me his conduct and performance was that of a real sportsMAN. You also then suggest that he was crash happy. Go ask Rossi why he wasn't prepared to take the Ducati to the limit and this is after Stoner had fixed up the disaster that he was given for a bike at the beginning of 2010.

All of that was bad but now you claim that the front of the bike had nothing to do with his crashes but it was his negotiations with Honda that made him have a bad start to the season.

Well I could say that Rossi used his shoulder and pending surgery as leverage in his negotiations to get allowance to test the Ducati. Rossi also circulated well down on his normal positions during this time which could quite possibly have also been a negotiation tool. Once it was settled and he could test he was suddenly running at the front again and surprise surprise no need to miss the last couple of races so he could get surgery.

I know you were trying to be funny but the least you could do is try and not be so damn pathetic whilst you do it.

Goatboy · Jan 19, 2011

<Actually that facial expression is familiar!

Tom · Jan 19, 2011

esco said:
Jorge should have taken ducatis big money offer and challange on the duc but i guess he probably didn't want to be on that bike for reassons only he knows.

Jorge made no secret, he thought the Yamaha package was the best on the grid and prefered to stay alongside Rossi for as long as it took to beat him

Tom · Jan 19, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
Well I had full respect for Stoner for riding through the obvious illness that saw him unable to walk after getting off the bike whilst still beating all the other Ducati riders. Then he was man enough in the face of massive opposition and media scrutiny to take 3 races off so he could fix his health. And then he came back and totally spanked the field with some unbelievably dominate rides. I don't know what you get out of the sport but to me his conduct and performance was that of a real sportsMAN.

I think pretty much anyone who really gets the whole motogp thing agrees with this.

ptk50 · Jan 19, 2011

Hi there in NYC - you summed up self styled Mental Anarchist just right. Thanks

MA should try reading peoples' post as they're written and not twisting them to be as he wants to see them to use as a launch pad for his personal diatribe.

Marlboro's attitude towards Stoner was well publicized and underlined by what they together with Ducati were ready to pay him compared to what they offered to others:

The whole "if" thing could be stretched ad infinitum (or nauseum)

- since Ducati offered Hogay a multiple of Stoner's pay - they obviously thought he was worth more to them - so

- IF we conjecture that JL was the 1st choice and Stoner only their rider by default since JL turned them down.

- But then at that time Rossi was on his way to winning 2009 with Yamaha - so he was out of Ducati's reach

- so maybe IF they had tried he would have been their 1st choice, but they just didn't try.

- Then again IF Alonso is as good as he says he could be IF he tried.................... ooops quoting another post and plagiarism charges from MA again

Fact is - 2011 looks like it could turn out to be a really exciting season and IF Rossi wins on the Ducati - I for one will be very happy

Keshav · Jan 19, 2011

ptk50 said:
Hi there in NYC - you summed up self styled Mental Anarchist just right. Thanks

MA should try reading peoples' post as they're written and not twisting them to be as he wants to see them to use as a launch pad for his personal diatribe.

Marlboro's attitude towards Stoner was well publicized and underlined by what they together with Ducati were ready to pay him compared to what they offered to others:

The whole "if" thing could be stretched ad infinitum (or nauseum)

- since Ducati offered Hogay a multiple of Stoner's pay - they obviously thought he was worth more to them - so

- IF we conjecture that JL was the 1st choice and Stoner only their rider by default since JL turned them down.

- But then at that time Rossi was on his way to winning 2009 with Yamaha - so he was out of Ducati's reach

- so maybe IF they had tried he would have been their 1st choice, but they just didn't try.

- Then again IF Alonso is as good as he says he could be IF he tried.................... ooops quoting another post and plagiarism charges from MA again

Fact is - 2011 looks like it could turn out to be a really exciting season and IF Rossi wins on the Ducati - I for one will be very happy

Hogay? Maybe Hogey (like the sandwich) Hogey Lorenzo. I like it.

I for one would be very happy if anyone wins the championship on a Ducati - especially if his name was Hayden.

But with Spies the spoiler and Stoner on the Honda rocket around - that ain't gonna happen.

Tom · Jan 19, 2011

ptk50 said:
- since Ducati offered Hogay a multiple of Stoner's pay - they obviously thought he was worth more to them - so

- But then at that time Rossi was on his way to winning 2009 with Yamaha - so he was out of Ducati's reach

Lorenzo is worth more to Ducati than Stoner, but i doubt that has much to do with their racing performance. Marlboro's main problem with Stoner was his unwillingness to participate in any promotional activity. Lorenzo is very accessible in that sense, so to a Sponsor he is worth a lot.

I also agree that Lorenzo was Ducati's first choice when Rossi was winning, because once Lorenzo put himself out of Ducati's reach they looked for Rossi straight away.

One thing is for sure, the Ducati - Stoner partnership seemed to have mutually run its course

stiefel · Jan 19, 2011

Am I the only one that thinks that Ducati did not really have a choice but to sign Rossi once he decided to leave Yamaha, whether they wanted to or not. I mean, they just couldn't have said no, could they, regardless of the man's abilities, but simply for the pressure from the public, sponsors, company management and DORNA.

Maybe Stoner foresaw Rossi coming to Ducati, or at least feared it enough, and knew he would be better off elsewhere.

BarryMachine · Jan 19, 2011

stiefel said:
Maybe Stoner foresaw Rossi coming to Ducati, or at least feared it enough, and knew he would be better off elsewhere.

Everybody was waiting to see what Stoner was doing, if he had stayed Ducati, Rossi would not have been there. Rossi could turn out to be Ducati's worst nightmare, but they did need one of the higher profile riders, he was their third choice but he was a choice.

Stoner knew that Rossi going Ducati would only make himself look even better. But to have offered Lorenzo more than they were currently paying him would have been a big reason Stoner signed Honda ages ago.

ptk50 · Jan 19, 2011

BarryMachine said:
Everybody was waiting to see what Stoner was doing, if he had stayed Ducati, Rossi would not have been there. Rossi could turn out to be Ducati's worst nightmare, but they did need one of the higher profile riders, he was their third choice but he was a choice.

Stoner knew that Rossi going Ducati would only make himself look even better. But to have offered Lorenzo more than they were currently paying him would have been a big reason Stoner signed Honda ages ago.

>>> he was their third choice but he was a choice. <<<<

Chronologically - in terms of putting offers together you're absolutely right

In terms of value and preferences I believe you are equally off the mark - they've always wanted an Italian on the bike and were doing really well with Capi until Gibernau cannonballed him. I'd bet that even back then Ducati would have preferred Rossi, but Marlboro had their issues with him. Now I'd reall like to see Fiat replace them at Ducati

stiefel · Jan 19, 2011

BarryMachine said:
Everybody was waiting to see what Stoner was doing, if he had stayed Ducati, Rossi would not have been there. Rossi could turn out to be Ducati's worst nightmare, but they did need one of the higher profile riders, he was their third choice but he was a choice.

Stoner knew that Rossi going Ducati would only make himself look even better. But to have offered Lorenzo more than they were currently paying him would have been a big reason Stoner signed Honda ages ago.

Yes indeed, Rossi could turn out to be Ducati's nightmare. Which is kind of my point. Do you think there was any way Ducati could have said no to Rossi if Stoner would have stayed? I don't think they could have, even if they did not actually want him in their ranks.

I readily admit that I'm a huge Stoner fanboy, and yes, I think that if both would have been on the Ducati, it would have made Stoner look like the god of gods if the world was a nice and fair place. In reality, I think Rossi would manipulated the team and factory into not letting such a scenario manifest itself.

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