Rossi ~ useless off the grid or cunning plan?

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guido @ Apr 15 2009, 01:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Vale has always been happy starting from 1st, 2nd or even 3rd row and manages to ride to victory. Is he just a crap starter or does he place himself to watch others and adjust his race accordingly?
If so, I think he may have to re-think the stategy with Stoner. Vale cannot afford to let KC get away as in Qatar (and I hope he has a word with George about keeping him back on the first lap ~ he could have reserved his tyres without the needless battle, come on - a little respect for your elders please!).
So will we see Vale break his usual tactics and just take the start and keep it?


this is a stupid question...IMO.

when vale can take pole, he does...fact is its never been his forte, although he has quite a few over the years...

he does not need to learn from anyone the racing lines or whatever...he has won a few championships to prove this wrong...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guido @ Apr 15 2009, 01:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Vale has always been happy starting from 1st, 2nd or even 3rd row and manages to ride to victory. Is he just a crap starter or does he place himself to watch others and adjust his race accordingly?
If so, I think he may have to re-think the stategy with Stoner. Vale cannot afford to let KC get away as in Qatar
Every rider wants to qualify as high up the grid as possible to make it less work for themselves and Rossi is no exception to this. In fact last year Rossi said he needed to qualify on the same row as Stoner to be able to race with him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guido @ Apr 15 2009, 01:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So will we see Vale break his usual tactics and just take the start and keep it?
Over the years I wouldn't say Rossi has been the sort of rider to get out to the front as soon as possible and try to defend 1st place, during his consecutive title winning years he would quite often stalk first place and make a move with a few laps remaining, unless a fight was brought to him of course.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Motrix450 @ Apr 15 2009, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>this is a stupid question...IMO.

when vale can take pole, he does...fact is its never been his forte, although he has quite a few over the years...

he does not need to learn from anyone the racing lines or whatever...he has won a few championships to prove this wrong...

of course he doesnt need to 'learn racing lines' he's ....... vale

he aint 22 anymore is the problem - if you get to my age after riding morocycles all your life you will have a)been fortunate on a number of occasions AND b)stopped riding like a madman

add to this the duc is now the best bike in the field (nothing to do with to casey developing of course) and vale needs to get his hands on a desmosedici to take it to stoner - vale said this week the honda is .... because him or casey not on it developing

hey given his pull on dorna/ezy/(insert gangsta name here) he might be able to get on the duc this year
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As for the tread starter:
Rossi used to be in a position were starts were not important. I think the bad starts we see now is partly because of this. He never really put anything into it and just the latest years has put an effort into better starts. His strategy now is very clear: Hang on to or pass stoner ASAP. And it's been like that for a year now. No change in strategy there.

Then the Stoner slow warm up.
I think what he does is very clever. At the start of the warmup lap he's last into turn 1 and probably delays even more, building distance to the rest. Then he pins it and go close to race speed for the rest of the track. This builds heat in the tires and confidence in his head. He ends up on the grid, not last but in the last quarter of riders and that just proves how hard he rides the warmup lap.

Expect Rossi, Pedrosa and others to follow suit. In fact I'm surpriced Rossi havn't done it allready, if not for heating to intimidate Stoner.

The end of it might be a new rule that put people at the end of the grid if they are too slow around.
 
The Yamaha lacks a little grunt off the line and Rossi is not the best starter either... he cannot give that kind of advantage to Stoner because hes uncatchable when hes not under pressure.

Stoner only shows cracks when he has to race somebody.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 15 2009, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As for the tread starter:
Rossi used to be in a position were starts were not important. I think the bad starts we see now is partly because of this. He never really put anything into it and just the latest years has put an effort into better starts. His strategy now is very clear: Hang on to or pass stoner ASAP. And it's been like that for a year now. No change in strategy there.

Then the Stoner slow warm up.
I think what he does is very clever. At the start of the warmup lap he's last into turn 1 and probably delays even more, building distance to the rest. Then he pins it and go close to race speed for the rest of the track. This builds heat in the tires and confidence in his head. He ends up on the grid, not last but in the last quarter of riders and that just proves how hard he rides the warmup lap.

Expect Rossi, Pedrosa and others to follow suit. In fact I'm surpriced Rossi havn't done it allready, if not for heating to intimidate Stoner.

The end of it might be a new rule that put people at the end of the grid if they are too slow around.

"ehhh ezy please you tell cazey that he musta lineup first to not destroy the show ok"

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lad @ Apr 15 2009, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"ehhh ezy please you tell cazey that he musta lineup first to not destroy the show ok"

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i could just imagine him saying that!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lad @ Apr 15 2009, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"ehhh ezy please you tell cazey that he musta lineup first to not destroy the show ok"

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 15 2009, 05:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The answer is in plain sight. Rossi is always first to line up on the grid after the warm up lap and Stoner is always last. Rossi sits there and goes through his bum crack ritual for 30 - 40 sec where as Stoner is stationary for 10 -15 sec tops.

I can't believe that 3 seasons on that this piece of Stoner race craft has gone un-noticed and unanswered by others.

well same rule applies to ur guy as it does mine.....to change minds he will need to swap manufacturers... not being funny but its like rossi scenario at honda, people said it was the bike so he went to yamaha and people still say its the bike....

and for tyres it is the bike not rider i dont see stoner warming the tyres with a blow torch just before he starts... ducati have been with bridgestone for a while the rubber works well on that machine frm the word go.

oh forgot to add before you all get your panties in a twist not discrediting casey for anything here just telling it like it is.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Motrix450 @ Apr 15 2009, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>this is a stupid question...IMO.

when vale can take pole, he does...fact is its never been his forte, although he has quite a few over the years...

he does not need to learn from anyone the racing lines or whatever...he has won a few championships to prove this wrong...

It was not a question, stupid or otherwise, it was an observation.
When Vale does get pole he usually drops off and then comes back, there must be only 1 race where he has started from pole and kept position to win.

when vale can take pole, he does...fact is its never been his forte, although he has quite a few over the years...

Is that not what I said? Vale doesn't like starting from pole, he far more enjoys the race and the challenge. Starting from pole and keeping the position must be boring and lead to crashes ref Stoner last year.

I totally agree he does not need to learn racing lines, he knows all the circuits like the back of his hand. I was saying he likes to be behind other racers to see how they are riding, what mistakes they make and when is the most opportune place/time to overtake.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Apr 15 2009, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Yamaha lacks a little grunt off the line and Rossi is not the best starter either... he cannot give that kind of advantage to Stoner because hes uncatchable when hes not under pressure.

Stoner only shows cracks when he has to race somebody.

Thank you.
But is Vale not the best starter by choice?
I can't imagine that between him and Jerry they haven't cracked the start yet.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guido @ Apr 15 2009, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thank you.
But is Vale not the best starter by choice?
I can't imagine that between him and Jerry they haven't cracked the start yet.


yamaha isnt the best on acceleration thats what riders have been asking for since the end of last season for starts and more out of corner acceleration.

stoner has abit more grunt, is 10 kg lighter plus hes not as tall as rossi and i beleieve these things come into play off the line, just look at pedrosa for evidence. but stoner is a demon starter anyway.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guido @ Apr 15 2009, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Am I the only one who thought DeAngelis was out of order sidelining Dani like that?

yes


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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guido @ Apr 15 2009, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Am I the only one who thought DeAngelis was out of order sidelining Dani like that?

You'll probably find yourself in the minority. Around here peoples idea of what is and isn't acceptable racing changes dramatically depending on who benefits and who suffers as a result.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 15 2009, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You'll probably find yourself in the minority. Around here peoples idea of what is and isn't acceptable racing changes dramatically depending on who benefits and who suffers as a result.

I agree to a certain extent, but please, enlighten us with your unbiased opinion then.

Guido, are you are impying that De Ang meant to run into him?? I think the powers that be left it up to a racing incident. This stuff happens.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guido @ Apr 15 2009, 06:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are mean
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Come on Dani's only a child and was poorly too!

and toms..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>You'll probably find yourself in the minority. Around here peoples idea of what is and isn't acceptable racing changes dramatically depending on who benefits and who suffers as a result.

it was decided by the race stewards, whom i believe are impartial, that it was a racing incident and NOT intentional....

case closed...
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DeAngelis is just reckless... what caused the contact was that he saw the inside line and gunned it - causing him to wheely and drift out to Dani. DeAngelis needs to refine his riding style - I just don't think he can handle the power - and he's on the satelite - haha
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In years past, whenever Rossi did get the lead coming out into the first corner, he does seem to take it a bit easy on the first few laps. He could be taking it easy and warming up the tires.... but what I think is that Valentinto is trying to measure out his opponents behind him, seeing if they will take the bait and pass him so that Valentino himself can see what pace they are running in front and how much they are using up the tires. Usually the rider in front uses up his tires more than the one chasing behind due to pressure. I also think a big part of Valentino's game is playing mind games . That is why I believe Stoner should do the same to Rossi in the future just to rattle his cage a bit. In future races I hope Stoner do let Rossi pass in the first few laps and stay behind and push.... only if practice times and qualifying times prior to race have shown that Stoner do indeed have a superior bike on the track. I think Stoner should take more pride in his race craft then just taking off and checking out..... and he will deffinately gain more respect from Rossi, not that he isn't getting any at the moment.
 

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