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Yep
Absolutely. Is this even a new interview?.
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Kind of glad that 2015 is still a thorn in his side. As if 9 titles makes him automatically entitled to a 10th.
Was going to stay out of this thread but that is the bottom line. The quest for the 10th title when he never needed to prove anything further in the first place seems to have blighted both his career and now it would appear pretty much his life. And if he had just been handed the title on 2015 for his services to the sport as he seems to some extent believe was his due this would have devalued the other 9 titles imo.
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Of note in this interview he admitted to having a different attitude/mindset from many towards when to stop racing. He doesn’t see the point in stopping when he still loves racing. He doesn’t care about stopping while still at his peak. Fair enough. His general position of not caring too much what the purists feel is reflected in his openness about feeling convinced the 2015 championship was stolen from him.
IMO, we see a character trait that clearly has a lot to do with his success in the sport and which also shows its downside, ie, how it can work against him. I saw this also in Senna as well as M Schumacher.
Pity that he not only feels the way that he did about 2015, but even more sadly, that he also chooses to keep mentioning this opinion in interviews. He needs to give it a rest.
IMO, we see a character trait that clearly has a lot to do with his success in the sport and which also shows its downside, ie, how it can work against him. I saw this also in Senna as well as M Schumacher.
Pity that he not only feels the way that he did about 2015, but even more sadly, that he also chooses to keep mentioning this opinion in interviews. He needs to give it a rest.
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Schumacher knew when to stop. He had to get talked into driving for Mercedes for 2010-2012. Some say it had a lot to do with him "owing" Mercedes for putting up the $100,000 that got him the then one-off ride in the Jordan 191 at Belgium '91. Mind you, he would have gotten to Formula 1 with that talent, but the timeline of when that would have actually occurred is harder to pin down as Eddie Jordan happened to be in need of a driver for that race weekend since Betrand Gachot was arrested, and regardless of anything he says these days, taking Michael was less about the talent level, and more about the Mercedes money (something he was in dire need of). It was only after Jordan saw what Schumacher could do in comparison to the fast-on-his-day but inconsistent Andrea de Cesaris that he tried to get him signed permanently, but Benetton beat him to the punch on that one.
I also don't believe Senna would have been okay with circling around the midfield/backmarker portion of the grid as his skills deteriorated. But at the time of his death, his outright speed was still unsurpassed by anyone on the grid. In the ill-handling Williams-Renault, he still parked it on pole position for the first three races of the 1994 season before his death. Senna was a lot of things, prideful no doubt, but I also believe that same pride would not have let him make a fool of himself on the grid and he would never have been content to just be there on the grid.
In their respective primes, the thing I've noticed about all of the top drivers or riders, is that on-track they are absolutely relentless. Marquez shares that trait with the legends of the sport. Rossi never at any point in his career struck me in that fashion. He was hungry always, but that relentlessness Doohan had was never a part of his makeup in my opinion. Senna and Schumacher (in his first F1 career) were absolutely relentless. They did not give up ever. Rossi seems to have given up even if he's still saying what he is publicly. He does not ride any longer like he is desperate, and guys who are no longer desperate need to be replaced as they are never going to be willing to go the extra mile to find that last tenth or two tenths of laptime that could propel them further up the grid.
He's a washed-up has-been who is basically engaging in what is for him a glorified track day. I look at it, if you want to ride around the track, go rent out Misano and get your .... out that way instead of shitting up the grid and perpetuating the belief that GP is not about fielding the best caliber of rider competition possible, but a competition that is determined more by name recognition, passport location, and how much sponsorship is brought. Though this is all a game as old as the sport itself, it doesn't mean that it should continue to be how the sport is conducted. It's time for Rossi to go, and he should have gone at least 3-4 years ago.
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You made some good points and gave some good information there JPSLotus.
However, I think you misunderstood me.
Firstly, I wouldn't necessarily agree that Schumacher 'knew' when to retire. I would be more inclined to say that he simply retired when he chose to, on his terms, and for his reasons. In saying that he 'knew when to retire', it would seem that you have labelled it as somehow 'right' or 'appropriate' because you agree with it and that it fits with a commonly chosen apparent set of circumstances for retirement.
When I said that IMO, Rossi shared a character trait with Senna and Schumacher, I referred to a trait that is a mix of dogged determination, focus, and not caring too much, if at all, what others think when that helmet is on. They all had controversial values and defended them doggedly. These traits have led to Rossi's extra-ordinarily long career in premier class motor-cycle racing. These traits may lead to other outcomes with other great racers depending on their values and specific circumstances. In his prime, Rossi was highly successful, but this trait has transferred into his determination to stay and to keep competing long after others would have stopped. Stoner (love the fella for his sincerity) said he was unhappy to see Rossi struggle because he was such a fierce competitor at the front.... a 'killer'.... i.e. relentless... yes.
Schumacher had the temerity to cheat in 2006 after so much success, a manifestation of the same trait in a different personality and circumstance. I'm a mega Schumacher fan and it took me a while to accept what he did and to see him as the complete and multi-faceted competitor that he was. In a not dissimilar spirit, Rossi has the temerity to claim repeatedly, that a championship was stolen from him!! As with Schumacher, I've managed to maintain my respect for Rossi as a great competitor and rider despite his flaws. Don't we all have them?
It was my in-depth knowledge and following of Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Alonso, Hamilton, and now in MotoGP and being late to the party... Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Dovi, Hayden and now, Marquez. All have their issues and for me, it's more rewarding to see them each in their full colours, rather than as in black or white.... Either as a 'can do no wrong' (denying any valid criticisms).... or an absolute '......' who is discredited in all ways.
I personally admire them all as great competitors and the more they are at the front, the more they will be the point of focus and the more their characters will be tested. There's a prize to be won and it's close. There are others in the way. Who will be provoked first? Makes for great entertainment! Unfortunately, Rossi's currently manifested show of determination isn't making for good entertainment. I do feel that he will finally stop this year.
However, I think you misunderstood me.
Firstly, I wouldn't necessarily agree that Schumacher 'knew' when to retire. I would be more inclined to say that he simply retired when he chose to, on his terms, and for his reasons. In saying that he 'knew when to retire', it would seem that you have labelled it as somehow 'right' or 'appropriate' because you agree with it and that it fits with a commonly chosen apparent set of circumstances for retirement.
When I said that IMO, Rossi shared a character trait with Senna and Schumacher, I referred to a trait that is a mix of dogged determination, focus, and not caring too much, if at all, what others think when that helmet is on. They all had controversial values and defended them doggedly. These traits have led to Rossi's extra-ordinarily long career in premier class motor-cycle racing. These traits may lead to other outcomes with other great racers depending on their values and specific circumstances. In his prime, Rossi was highly successful, but this trait has transferred into his determination to stay and to keep competing long after others would have stopped. Stoner (love the fella for his sincerity) said he was unhappy to see Rossi struggle because he was such a fierce competitor at the front.... a 'killer'.... i.e. relentless... yes.
Schumacher had the temerity to cheat in 2006 after so much success, a manifestation of the same trait in a different personality and circumstance. I'm a mega Schumacher fan and it took me a while to accept what he did and to see him as the complete and multi-faceted competitor that he was. In a not dissimilar spirit, Rossi has the temerity to claim repeatedly, that a championship was stolen from him!! As with Schumacher, I've managed to maintain my respect for Rossi as a great competitor and rider despite his flaws. Don't we all have them?
It was my in-depth knowledge and following of Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Alonso, Hamilton, and now in MotoGP and being late to the party... Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Dovi, Hayden and now, Marquez. All have their issues and for me, it's more rewarding to see them each in their full colours, rather than as in black or white.... Either as a 'can do no wrong' (denying any valid criticisms).... or an absolute '......' who is discredited in all ways.
I personally admire them all as great competitors and the more they are at the front, the more they will be the point of focus and the more their characters will be tested. There's a prize to be won and it's close. There are others in the way. Who will be provoked first? Makes for great entertainment! Unfortunately, Rossi's currently manifested show of determination isn't making for good entertainment. I do feel that he will finally stop this year.
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My problems with Rossi were never with his riding for his very long prime, and I think he was as great a rider and as relentless as any rider has ever been, and for a prolonged period of time, you don't have the seasons he had in his prime without same. He perhaps came to expect to win after the 5 titles in a row more than some of the other motorsport competitors previously mentioned did, and flirting with other sports probably didn't help, but I do think Nicky Hayden rode a very good season in 2006 on a bike and under a formula which suited his talents, presuming this is the title Rossi has referred to previously as the one he gave away. Rossi followed 2006 with great title winning seasons in 2008 and 2009 anyway, and rode very well in 2007 for that matter as well, he just came up against a bike that was unbeatable if you could ride it, the latter being a rather major proviso. I still wonder if he had intimated to Yamaha that he would retire after the the 2009 title win, hence Yamaha going with Lorenzo. I don't have much of a problem with him still riding now as long as all parties are willing/he wasn't imposed on Petronas Yamaha when they had plans for younger riders, I imagine he brings money they are happy to have particularly in the current climate. I don't understand why he wants to ride down the field having been so great, but I am not him, and many other sportsmen have chosen to continue on past their prime, even the likes of Michael Jordan.
The so called 'mind games'/off track manipulation were
what I found problematic, and imo unfairly blighted the careers of several of his elite competitors, but he doesn't seem to be doing this any more. I am not completely uncritical of MM, he is reckless if less so in terms of risk to other riders in recent years imo, but the guy is absolutely indomitable including in the face of having the Valeban unleashed on him.
I was prepared to give Valentino enormous credit for winning at the age he was in 2015, it would have been well deserved, and he did make the best of the conditions which were the same for everyone for much of the year, MM choosing to repeatedly throw his bike down the road, Lorenzo being suspect in wet races and Pedrosa being injured for much of the season were the problems of those riders and not his, but in the end he wasn't fast enough in mostly dry races at the end of the season, and the accusation that a bike rider tanked a race he won remains one of the most ridiculous I have heard, that motor racing is the art of winning at the slowest possible speed being the dictum of several F1 greats.
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Great insights @michaelm. Pity that I wasn't on here during the 2015 season...............
or should I be happy that I wasn't?
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The discussions then certainly were more, animated.
And there seemed to be a greater variety of members - tho, essentially arguing either one side of the other. Team sports! Minus all the animosity and the extravagant diatribes, the forum feels a bit as if it’s running identical ECUs and control tires.
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Thanks.... I'll give it a go.
