Rossi quote - can anyone remember?

michaelm · Oct 4, 2019

misfit said:
I'm actually seeing a reflection in that another cult has developed as it inevitably does and in this case, it's the anti-Rossi cult. It's a reflection of the the pro-Rossi blind fandom and in said fashion one can't seem to get any sense in them either. Both sides with the same name calling antics etc. Both rabid in their views. Both unpleasant ...

Just as well we have an observer from Olympian heights such as you to educate us then.

I have no problem with how Rossi is comporting himself currently, nor with acknowledging his greatness. I don’t even think these latter years will be remembered much or affect his standing in retirement, Michael Jordan is not remembered as a Washington Wizards player.

What is there to say about MM now that he has developed some concern for the safety of other riders?. It is hard for MM fans to hate his opposition given he effectively doesn’t have any, except his bike and the track as FP2 illustrated. His crash does demonstrate how extraordinary it is that Rossi is still out there in one piece riding competitively at age 41 or whatever, and that it is still not a given MM will totally eclipse all Rossi’s records.

I think you will find most of the anti-Rossi sentiment is from fans of other riders who got short shrift when they competed against Rossi with any degree of success. When he was doing what MM is doing now he was universally acknowledged and there was little or no negative sentiment against him from anyone.

Segfault · Oct 5, 2019

Why everybody expects pro- or anti- sentiment? I have no respect for this individual. That's it. No pro or anti. I've had executive jobs for decades, I've learned from experience unethical people do not deserve respect and if you give them a second chance then you are just deceiving yourself. Say you have a greatest bike but the tire is flat. Can't ride it! Same with sportsmen (or people in general), you may have greatest achievements but if you have displayed unsportsmanlike behavior then you are a big zero for me.

michaelm · Oct 5, 2019

Segfault said:
Why everybody expects pro- or anti- sentiment? I have no respect for this individual. That's it. No pro or anti. I've had executive jobs for decades, I've learned from experience unethical people do not deserve respect and if you give them a second chance then you are just deceiving yourself. Say you have a greatest bike but the tire is flat. Can't ride it! Same with sportsmen (or people in general), you may have greatest achievements but if you have displayed unsportsmanlike behavior then you are a big zero for me.

You just don't get it do you?. According to Misfit disliking Rossi is a sign you don't have his intelligence, and his perspective, a perspective several intellectual planes above/removed from we more mundane followers of the sport.

misfit · Oct 5, 2019

michaelm said:
You just don't get it do you?. According to Misfit disliking Rossi is a sign you don't have his intelligence, and his perspective, a perspective several intellectual planes above/removed from we more mundane followers of the sport.

Oh dear.... looks like I offended you.

Keshav · Oct 5, 2019

misfit said:
Oh dear.... looks like I offended you.

Problem with you is you're too darn tolerant of other people's intolerance.

michaelm · Oct 5, 2019

misfit said:
Oh dear.... looks like I offended you.

It would take a little more than inane cod psychology to genuinely offend me, and your apparent assumptions that such cod psychology has any currency and that you have a nuanced view of the sport/amazing insight ahead of others are amusing rather than offensive.

People simply dislike Rossi just as you do Lorenzo. If this extends to denigrating his great achievements in his gp bike racing career then that is unreasonable, otherwise it is a personal opinion which requires no psychoanalysis. No-one had a problem with Rossi in his pomp, the likes of Povol rated him ahead of the great golden age American riders he had admired just as I rated him ahead of Doohan. I won't deny some schadenfreude during his Ducati adventure, but always knew that bike was a pig.

The problem for we anti-Rossi cultists was how unpleasant he and his fans made the sport for his competitors, some of whom approached being all time greats themselves, by means other than him beating them on track, with the level of vilification seemingly increasing with increasing competitiveness against Valentino. I, like Povol, blamed an unhinged element among Rossi fandom rather than Rossi himself prior to 2015, but events in that year demonstrated that he was fully complicit. A little play acting to create a heroes and villains narrative is fine with me if not to my particular taste, but it fairly clearly went way beyond that for Valentino.

320Dave · Oct 6, 2019

Gaz said:
Ah .... it.

Try to stay away from many of the Rossi threads as I am someone who has never been a fan of the rider or the personality and have said so many times, copped abuse and in some social circles even been 'threatened' because of it but here goes.

Now, I will not attempt to denigrate his results as irrespective of whether he had better equipment, more mediocre opposition or any advantages the fact remains that he still has to finish the race in front of others to get the result ........... do I think he has had advantages - hell yes - but as I have said many many times, ALL of these guys want an advantage to make their job easier, he got it and used it and then was allowed to grow it.

Now, so many of us whinge and whine about the impacts and the favouritism I mention above but we also do not credit what he has bought to the sport.

Remove results but by his manufacturing the personality of a clown or a joking, always smiling and approachable, good for a laugh and only having fun type of rider he built an empire. That empire got more coverage which bought more fans and yes, increased his power in the sport via DORNA but it also attracted many new fans and businesses that were not previously involved.

These fans and businesses bought even more fans to the sport and the sport grew.

It now gets coverage in mainstream news in Australia as an example and certainly whilst Wayne Gardner, Mick Doohan and Casey Stoner all got news coverage, when they were not newsworthy then it was Rossi. This was new as in Australia motorcycle Racing is the poorest cousin of the local club lawn bowls tournaments and gets no coverage and/or money, yet with Rossi's mention we got coverage.

On top of this, he is putting back to the sport and whilst yes it may be somewhat selfishly as he wishes to remain involved with the sport for what I believe are egotistical reasons the fact is he is using his money and influence to develop and grow the sport further. How the F can we be critical of that?

Without Rossi we would not have had riders needing to step up as so many have to challenge him and then beat him, all of these are riders we marvel at up to and including the freak of today that is Marquez/ Sure not all of these riders started the sport because of Rossi but many coming through would have as they idolised him and in years ahead we will be thanking his influence for these riders .

Look, for me I genuinely do not like the cult of personality and this is what we had with Rossi (and have with other riders) and for mine much of the yellow mass has disappeared so things are improving, but when we look at the dark side we also need to look at the light of what he has bought to the sport. Absolutely the growth is not all down to him by any means but the fact that he was able to get mainstream media coverage in countries where there was little or no coverage previously as well as use that personality to his advantages in business terms, should not be overlooked.

Sure, do not acknowledge all that he has done as positive as I will not, but credit where due.

Yes sure I do acknowledge he pretty much made the Sport PPV all over the world.

& no i do not appreciate it.

I have watched for free in many countries, all of them are now PPV except for Aus having ONE give the MotoGP race and that is it.

320Dave · Oct 6, 2019

michaelm said:
Just as well we have an observer from Olympian heights such as you to educate us then.

I have no problem with how Rossi is comporting himself currently, nor with acknowledging his greatness. I don’t even think these latter years will be remembered much or affect his standing in retirement, Michael Jordan is not remembered as a Washington Wizards player.

What is there to say about MM now that he has developed some concern for the safety of other riders?. It is hard for MM fans to hate his opposition given he effectively doesn’t have any, except his bike and the track as FP2 illustrated. His crash does demonstrate how extraordinary it is that Rossi is still out there in one piece riding competitively at age 41 or whatever, and that it is still not a given MM will totally eclipse all Rossi’s records.

I think you will find most of the anti-Rossi sentiment is from fans of other riders who got short shrift when they competed against Rossi with any degree of success. When he was doing what MM is doing now he was universally acknowledged and there was little or no negative sentiment against him from anyone.

I hated his effin guts, however nobody listened to me.

Or they did and looked smug/laughed away.

Ingjr · Oct 7, 2019

I have Rose colored glasses on when it comes to Rossi. Although I don't like everything he's done, I do understand the contempt he sometimes has for other riders. He comes from the mold that to beat your competition you must take a dislike to them. Having been a competitor for more years than I care to admit I had the same disdain for many of the people I raced against. Large egos have trouble coexisting.

Keshav · Oct 7, 2019

Ingjr said:
I have Rose colored glasses on when it comes to Rossi. Although I don't like everything he's done, I do understand the contempt he sometimes has for other riders. He comes from the mold that to beat your competition you must take a dislike to them. Having been a competitor for more years than I care to admit I had the same disdain for many of the people I raced against. Large egos have trouble coexisting.

You'll find there are more than a few ex-racers who drop in here from time to time; myself included. Not feeling chummy with your competitors is not the issue. Those who dislike Rossi do so because he has spent so much energy trying to beat his competition via the use of his influence on ruling bodies to create unfair advantages for himself, by supporting hateful behavior by his fans toward competitors in order to discourage them, and just generally being a self-entitled jerk. Races should be won on the track, not manipulated in back rooms or by proxy hate campaigns - all of which come under the umbrella of poor sportsmanship.

Kenny Roberts, Freddie Spencer, Eddie Lawson, Kevin Schwantz et al; did their fighting where it really counts; on the track.

michaelm · Oct 7, 2019

Keshav said:
You'll find there are more than a few ex-racers who drop in here from time to time; myself included. Not feeling chummy with your competitors is not the issue. Those who dislike Rossi do so because he has spent so much energy trying to beat his competition via the use of his influence on ruling bodies to create unfair advantages for himself, by supporting hateful behavior by his fans toward competitors in order to discourage them, and just generally being a self-entitled jerk. Races should be won on the track, not manipulated in back rooms or by proxy hate campaigns - all of which come under the umbrella of poor sportsmanship.

Kenny Roberts, Freddie Spencer, Eddie Lawson, Kevin Schwantz et al; did their fighting where it really counts; on the track.

I am hardly Rossi’s greatest admirer on here, but while I agree with most of what you say about his treatment of competitors, I don’t go for the advantages and manipulation of officialdom things so much, basically I agree with J4rn0’s argument that he had the advantages which have always accrued to the top rider or riders such as my personal idol Mick Doohan, and perhaps at least to an extent earned and contributed to by such riders, and as far as manipulating officialdom imo it has more been his Uncle Carmelo falling over himself to aid the cause of his meal ticket, but not to the extent of contriving results. He did seem to use his influence to get on the Bridgestone tires in 2008, but as Gaz says you would in his position if you could and believed they offered an advantage. He has gotten away with a few things, the Jerez last corner pass on Gibernau for one.

Keshav · Oct 7, 2019

michaelm said:
I am hardly Rossi’s greatest admirer on here, but while I agree with most of what you say about his treatment of competitors, I don’t go for the advantages and manipulation of officialdom things so much, basically I agree with J4rn0’s argument that he had the advantages which have always accrued to the top rider or riders such as my personal idol Mick Doohan, and perhaps at least to an extent earned and contributed to by such riders, and as far as manipulating officialdom imo it has more been his Uncle Carmelo falling over himself to aid the cause of his meal ticket, but not to the extent of contriving results. He did seem to use his influence to get on the Bridgestone tires in 2008, but as Gaz says you would in his position if you could and believed they offered an advantage. He has gotten away with a few things, the Jerez last corner pass on Gibernau for one.

I specifically referring to the mid-season change in the front tire compound. The rest of the field were working with what was available, yet his exaggerated influence came into play, via his fixer Carmelo and it resulted in a tire with qualities tailored to his needs, and ended up disadvantaging other riders. He purposes himself as being the best, but if he was truly that good, he would have demonstrated that by beating other riders on the original tire.

Same goes for his jump to Ducati; if he were the superior rider, he'd have stayed at Yamaha and beat Lorenzo on the M1.

misfit · Oct 7, 2019

Ingjr said:
I have Rose colored glasses on when it comes to Rossi. Although I don't like everything he's done, I do understand the contempt he sometimes has for other riders. He comes from the mold that to beat your competition you must take a dislike to them. Having been a competitor for more years than I care to admit I had the same disdain for many of the people I raced against. Large egos have trouble coexisting.

Looks like the same goes for the fans with big egos and opposing views!

Many of the greats, as I've witnessed, especially the ones with massive statistics will invariably find an advantage where they can. Being a purist at heart, I'd prefer if battles were fought on track but unfortunately, the mind games will forever exist in sport and also, the machinery isn't the same. Teams and riders will try at all times to get on the best machinery and will do whatever it takes to get their bikes legally quicker.

MM is the real deal. He's a true legend in the real sense of the word. Pure unadulterated talent has everything to do with his achievements to date. He's very hard on track but usually fair. Rossi can't stand this.

Furiosa · Oct 7, 2019

I was a competitor for many years, although in an entirely different sphere. Completely different. I can hand on heart say I never felt contempt for my competitors and knew that when I was beaten, I had to go home, do some work, get better.

There's some saying about how you don't make your light shine brighter by dimming others. I'm not eloquent enough to repeat it or bright enough to remember it, but you get the gist.

michaelm · Oct 7, 2019

Keshav said:
I specifically referring to the mid-season change in the front tire compound. The rest of the field were working with what was available, yet his exaggerated influence came into play, via his fixer Carmelo and it resulted in a tire with qualities tailored to his needs, and ended up disadvantaging other riders. He purposes himself as being the best, but if he was truly that good, he would have demonstrated that by beating other riders on the original tire.

Same goes for his jump to Ducati; if he were the superior rider, he'd have stayed at Yamaha and beat Lorenzo on the M1.

My rancour has cooled on that one, it looks as though he was correct that ‘his’ tire was the better all-round tire. The manifestly unfair thing for me was the original tire being taken away from those it suited, which was probably down to Dorna and/or Bridgestone rather than him. To be fair to Dorna, which takes some effort on my part, I believe a rule has since been promulgated against such a tire removal in future.

MM’s reaction was instructive, iirc he said that he doubted they would do the same for him, but was mostly amused because he thought the tire was likely to suit him as well. He did get his share of golden boy treatment prior to 2015 of course.

michaelm · Oct 7, 2019

Keshav said:
I specifically referring to the mid-season change in the front tire compound. The rest of the field were working with what was available, yet his exaggerated influence came into play, via his fixer Carmelo and it resulted in a tire with qualities tailored to his needs, and ended up disadvantaging other riders. He purposes himself as being the best, but if he was truly that good, he would have demonstrated that by beating other riders on the original tire.

Same goes for his jump to Ducati; if he were the superior rider, he'd have stayed at Yamaha and beat Lorenzo on the M1.

Sure, the highest long term achievers do tend to be that way, cf the controversies which have attached to Tom Brady and the Patriots.

Keshav · Oct 7, 2019

michaelm said:
Sure, the highest long term achievers do tend to be that way, cf the controversies which have attached to Tom Brady and the Patriots.

I'll take your word on that one. Never followed team sports really. I only know about deflate gate because it was the subject of seemingly hundreds of late night comedy monologues over the course of several weeks.

michaelm · Oct 7, 2019

Keshav said:
I'll take your word on that one. Never followed team sports really. I only know about deflate gate because it was the subject of seemingly hundreds of late night comedy monologues over the course of several weeks.

Sorry, on my phone and meant to reply to misfit who made the point about other statistically dominant sportsmen in a post with which you agreed. .

p4p1 · Oct 7, 2019

michaelm said:
My rancour has cooled on that one, it looks as though he was correct that ‘his’ tire was the better all-round tire. The manifestly unfair thing for me was the original tire being taken away from those it suited, which was probably down to Dorna and/or Bridgestone rather than him. To be fair to Dorna, which takes some effort on my part, I believe a rule has since been promulgated against such a tire removal in future.

MM’s reaction was instructive, iirc he said that he doubted they would do the same for him, but was mostly amused because he thought the tire was likely to suit him as well. He did get his share of golden boy treatment prior to 2015 of course.

I’m not so sure about that Mike. IIRC most of the riders called Rossi’s favoured tyre unridable and Michelin let slip that they went back and worked on Rossi’s favoured tyre despite the riders almost unanimously favouring the other tyre. Clearly there was still issues with the tyre that was voted in originally by the riders but it does make somewhat of a smoking gun that instead of fixing the issues with the chosen tyre Michelin seemed to have gone back and revised/reworked the tyre that Rossi chose.

320Dave · Oct 8, 2019

That two large Egos on track BS never applied before in the way Mustard man has made thigs.

He has used the media and fans to attack other riders and dent their confidence. Thats not even an ego thing but a .... move.

Typical jealous gay guy/girlfriend behavior.

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