Rossi - Pedrosa battle

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (andrei @ Mar 25 2007, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hello everyone!

Since Pedrosa came in motogp class everyone was anxious waited to see the titanic battle between Rossi and Pedrosa.
Maybe it is a little bit early to jump to conclusions, but i am a little bit disappointed in what i saw between those two.
We actually didin't see any real battle between those two guys.
Rossi is always aggressive, no matter what, but Pedrosa is fast indeed, but i don't see any aggression moves from him. He doesn't try enough. He always starts well but in the second part of a race seems to struggle.
And let's not forget he has the best package out there. But i don't see him at the same level with Rossi.
Biaggi came from 250 to 500 class with the same high hopes. He started pretty but ended bad and i'm afraid that with Pedrosa will hapen the same.

What do you think?
Do you think that Pedrosa will have a word to say in the future or he will be consistant but not fast enough as Rossi?

hmmmmmmm?........ Rossi has waaaaay more experience under his belt an he takes full advantage of that. when dani finds a setting that he is perfectly happy with and a track that suits, he's gone and not even vale can catch him BUT yes dani seems to slack off after a few laps and rossi just toys with him then disappears.

it could just be a sheer lack of strength and stamina but he cant really help that. although donington is a tiring circuit and look what happened last year so that just blew my argument apart

rossi is strong and its going to take someone pretty spectacular to top him (not that im saying dani isnt). i think as he progresses he'll just get stronger and then we'll see what we are all after.

what you said about dani not being agressive, i dont think he likes to take risks, if he knows he can pass, he will but if he's unsure he resists - ive seen countless times where he sat up at the end of a straight and not passed when he could.

in answer to your question - give it time

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (andrei @ Mar 25 2007, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hello everyone!

Since Pedrosa came in motogp class everyone was anxious waited to see the titanic battle between Rossi and Pedrosa.
Maybe it is a little bit early to jump to conclusions, but i am a little bit disappointed in what i saw between those two.
We actually didin't see any real battle between those two guys.
Rossi is always aggressive, no matter what, but Pedrosa is fast indeed, but i don't see any aggression moves from him. He doesn't try enough. He always starts well but in the second part of a race seems to struggle.And let's not forget he has the best package out there. But i don't see him at the same level with Rossi.
Biaggi came from 250 to 500 class with the same high hopes. He started pretty but ended bad and i'm afraid that with Pedrosa will hapen the same.

What do you think?
Do you think that Pedrosa will have a word to say in the future or he will be consistant but not fast enough as Rossi?
Welcome

I don't agree with most of the things you are saying here. Let's kick off with Valentino Rossi and your claims that he is "always aggressive". Valentino Rossi hardly ever rides on the limit, but he did today at Jerez. Rossi often is happen to sit behind and judge the race and then make an approach sometime in mid-race, but I wouldn't say he is aggressive much at all!
You say that Pedrosa is fast but you don't see any aggressives moves by him. Firstly you've got to remember Pedrosa is only a little guy, small 5ft and 51kg, so in some terms he is disadvantaged! Pedrosa doesn't need to ride aggressively to get podiums and the race wins, he'll be ver yfast, pull the move, and be off into the distance. I don't see him be extremely aggressive too often but he's up for the fight when he needs to be!
It looks like you're going off what you've seen today at the Jerez race, not over the past season he's been in Moto GP. Pedrosa tries his hardest right to the end, it's just he couldn't keep up with Rossi today - if Pedrosa can't, then no-one can! If you actually watch Moto GP properly and for a few seasons then you might actually understand this, my friend!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (andrei @ Mar 25 2007, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hello everyone!

Since Pedrosa came in motogp class everyone was anxious waited to see the titanic battle between Rossi and Pedrosa.
Maybe it is a little bit early to jump to conclusions, but i am a little bit disappointed in what i saw between those two.
We actually didin't see any real battle between those two guys.
Rossi is always aggressive, no matter what, but Pedrosa is fast indeed, but i don't see any aggression moves from him. He doesn't try enough. He always starts well but in the second part of a race seems to struggle.
And let's not forget he has the best package out there. But i don't see him at the same level with Rossi.
Biaggi came from 250 to 500 class with the same high hopes. He started pretty but ended bad and i'm afraid that with Pedrosa will hapen the same.

What do you think?
Do you think that Pedrosa will have a word to say in the future or he will be consistant but not fast enough as Rossi?
when i look at asimo i see a lot of simulararitys with biaggi, there both fast and on a good day can win races but are not always so good on the breaks and that is quite often where races are won, they both ether break early and lose time against people like rossi or they break late and run wide, they both seem to stay on there line that they would ride when qualifieing and dont seem to be effective in changing to different lines to pass yet still maintain a lead like rossi does all the time. rossi and biaggi have a lot more experance than pedrobot so im not writing him off yet ,but i dont think he is a real threat to the doctor this year or even next year.

What battle?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (andrei @ Mar 25 2007, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And let's not forget he (pedrosa) has the best package out there.

i think that's open to debate ?

Yeah dunno what race you saw but i personally saw no battle!

When Rossi is confident of winning, he usually does not lead but follows till there are few laps left, and then he starts passing the leaders. He does this, 1. because there is less metal pressure when you follow, 2. you can apply pressure from behind and hope that the leader crashes (like Biaggi and Melandri have) 3. you have an opportunitysize up where the leader is fast/slow and develop a winning. IMHO, Rossi did not want to take any chances with Pedrosa given that he passed him early on and tried his best to build up a substantial lead. to me, this indicates that Rossi did not want to take any chances given that Pedrosa has the best qualifying time and he knew the track well, and Honda could turn out to be faster than expected like the Ducati was in Qatar.

To everyone who said that Dani wasn't riding aggressive. What race where you watching?

He was working his ... off. I'd say he was riding at 100% to get to Rossi, and also to keep Edwards behind him.

Well I've seen Dani being very aggresive in 250cc, but so far this season he hasn't been in a fight so you can't say he is or isn't agressive cause he's had no one to fight, Rossi was too far ahead in both races.

I strongly disagree about Honda having the best package. Look at where the rest of Honda riders are. And look where Colin is.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (teomolca @ Mar 28 2007, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well I've seen Dani being very aggresive in 250cc, but so far this season he hasn't been in a fight so you can't say he is or isn't agressive cause he's had no one to fight, Rossi was too far ahead in both races.

I strongly disagree about Honda having the best package. Look at where the rest of Honda riders are. And look where Colin is.

So far this year the different bikes are very different packages.
Ducati - The rocket
Yamaha - The pocket bike for go-cart tracks
Honda - The allround

Yamaha has the potential to be a very good package. They seem to have the chassi very well sorted out. If they can get much more power into that package it will be a winner, even without Rossi on top of it.

Ducati have a rocket and will gain a lot on that. How much we will se the next two races if they are without rain. Chassi is probably as before up and down, depending on track and conditions.

Honda seem to strugle with the chassi, allthough Dani is doing very well. Looks like they don't have things sorted out and hit trouble again and again. Much like the Yamaha last season allthough not to the same degree. But if anyone can sort out things like that, it's Honda. Their vast resources work for them. The bike has the potential of being a winner.

Suzuki, another good allround package with a better sorted chassi than Honda. Maybe not as powerful and maybe not the same potential and not by far the resources of Honda.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (teomolca @ Mar 27 2007, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well I've seen Dani being very aggresive in 250cc, but so far this season he hasn't been in a fight so you can't say he is or isn't agressive cause he's had no one to fight, Rossi was too far ahead in both races.

it depends how you're defining aggresive......you don't need to be battling with another rider to ride aggresively - you don't even need to be riding at the front as far as i'm concerned

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (teomolca @ Mar 27 2007, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I strongly disagree about Honda having the best package. Look at where the rest of Honda riders are. And look where Colin is.

after round one - the world was declaring Ducati domination - it's too early to say who's got the best bike out there but at the minute because who knows what will happen in Turkey, but at the minute - it doesn't look like it's Honda

I think Dani is riding smart this year. The championship is a long road and it is important to accumulate pointes in each race without necessarily winning them. So currently, he is riding cautiosly. As the championship progresses, he may need to step it up if Rossi is beating him consistently.

I dont think Honda has any chasis problems. At Jerez, all 6 of them finished in the top 10. Other than one person who complains about various problems (and is begining to sound like Biaggi) the only other complaint heard about the Honda. was the lack of speed -- which was measurable -- and which Honda has probably fixed that. Even the satellite riders seem happy, with Elias and Checa (two seperate satellite Honda teams) finishing before one of the factory Hondas at Jerez.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stop_killing_dead_things @ Mar 25 2007, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hmmmmmmm?........ Rossi has waaaaay more experience under his belt an he takes full advantage of that. when dani finds a setting that he is perfectly happy with and a track that suits, he's gone and not even vale can catch him BUT yes dani seems to slack off after a few laps and rossi just toys with him then disappears.

it could just be a sheer lack of strength and stamina but he cant really help that. although donington is a tiring circuit and look what happened last year so that just blew my argument apart

rossi is strong and its going to take someone pretty spectacular to top him (not that im saying dani isnt). i think as he progresses he'll just get stronger and then we'll see what we are all after.

what you said about dani not being agressive, i dont think he likes to take risks, if he knows he can pass, he will but if he's unsure he resists - ive seen countless times where he sat up at the end of a straight and not passed when he could.

in answer to your question - give it time

No mate, I would not compare Biaggi’s ‘do or dye’ with Pedrosa’s ‘fast on open track’ styles… Dani’s got experience now, really, he knows the tracks and riders quite well, he is in HRC’s Official team and has been with Honda for over 6 years, needs more time? Look at Rossi’s second MotoGP year on a Satellite Nastro Azzurro Honda team, on 500cc kicking out fast mules, how and what he did with that bike, first three GPs won by him, 11th wins, 13th podiums, only one DNF, in a 16 races Championship. All that against an experienced ‘not willing to loose’ Max Biaggi who got 3 wins and 9 podiums and not liking Rossi since before he started kicking the crap out of it. And against a 2000 Champion Roberts Jr. Plus a lot of other experienced great riders… Sorry mate, nothing personal but I am not buying it!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 27 2007, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ducati - The rocket
Yamaha - The pocket bike for go-cart tracks
Honda - The allround

What's new?

Good posts guys, also to add.. Pedrosa is strongest when he is in front and weakest when he is in a dog fight ala the overtaking stint that Rossi pulled at him in Qatar.. or the near crash with Melandri last year.. not saying that his weakest causes him to lose but when you put a rider in his weakest, he tends to step back or make mistakes trying to make up for it.

I don't agree that Rossi will stay behind when he knows he can win.. he has many more tactics than that... you are not world champion for being so easily read... he has different tactics for different riders and occasion... with Pedrosa.. it is to get in front of him and rough him in corners.. with Gibernau it was stalk behind and show front wheel in turns... with Hayden was the slow a bit and bait him for feed for the final podium finisher and pull off..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChemiKaze @ Mar 28 2007, 05:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't agree that Rossi will stay behind when he knows he can win.. he has many more tactics than that... you are not world champion for being so easily read... he has different tactics for different riders and occasion... with Pedrosa.. it is to get in front of him and rough him in corners.. with Gibernau it was stalk behind and show front wheel in turns... with Hayden was the slow a bit and bait him for feed for the final podium finisher and pull off..

i agree, rossi will never settle in second then mug on the last bend unless that is the only way, he may sit back to studdy where someone is fast but if he can get in front and get away he will and does.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 28 2007, 04:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No mate, I would not compare Biaggi’s ‘do or dye’ with Pedrosa’s ‘fast on open track’ styles… Dani’s got experience now, really, he knows the tracks and riders quite well, he is in HRC’s Official team and has been with Honda for over 6 years, needs more time? Look at Rossi’s second MotoGP year on a Satellite Nastro Azzurro Honda team, on 500cc kicking out fast mules, how and what he did with that bike, first three GPs won by him, 11th wins, 13th podiums, only one DNF, in a 16 races Championship. All that against an experienced ‘not willing to loose’ Max Biaggi who got 3 wins and 9 podiums and not liking Rossi since before he started kicking the crap out of it. And against a 2000 Champion Roberts Jr. Plus a lot of other experienced great riders… Sorry mate, nothing personal but I am not buying it!

i havent been into motogp for that long so i dont know about Rossi's first year of the Roberts but i dosee your point and i dont take it personally, its just my opinion thats all. you have more knowledge about the sport and i wont pretend otherwise, as i said, that was just my opinion

Welcome to the site.

I’m not so sure Pedrosa has a problem being aggressive. I think he is plenty aggressive. I would say he doesn’t have confidence on the break, which has been spectacularly evident, the last two races. He is fast all around the track. He has mixed it up with guys in front and mid pack, so I don’t know how and why he is getting this branding of not fighting or being aggressive. He has produced two podiums in two races. Both times he wasn’t close enough to mix it up with the front-runner. But why does this happen? Surely I don’t think it’s a lack of aggression. He put on plenty of bonsai passes on people last year and made then stick. I fully expect him to mix it up with guys this year when the riders are near equal and riding side by side. You will notice, he won’t back down this season, He’s like a Chihuahua, feisty as hell. (no pun intended)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stop_killing_dead_things @ Mar 28 2007, 07:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> i havent been into motogp for that long so i dont know about Rossi's first year of the Roberts but i dosee your point and i dont take it personally, its just my opinion thats all. you have more knowledge about the sport and i wont pretend otherwise, as i said, that was just my opinion

It’s all cool mate… Just that I don’t think Pedrosa lacks on experience or needs more time, may be wrong but I see a more conservative tactic that did get HRC’s last years Hayden’s title. I think Pedrosa is not going to risk as Gibernau a one on one cause chances are he’ll loose, so their tactic says get a podium always. It’s just an opinion of mine!