[Rossi]..."at bottom of the slope." Doohan

So Mick thinks Rossi is at the bottom of the slope. I fully expect Rossi's fans to jump all over him, as they do when ever somebody has suggested Rossi is close to done. I'm sure they will remain consistent in their chastising of people who have suggested Rossi is at the tail end of his career, and too old to cut it. Or, maybe this time, they will use it as a justification for his recent struggling? Let the spin begin...



LINK





For the record, I totally disagree with this assessment. Rossi is till very much at the top of his own game, same hunger, same self-confidence, same aggressive tactics, same talent as before, and great health; not to mention, God knows he's still has all the support resources in the world to compete at the highest level.



How will some answer this conundrum? Is he struggling because he has lost talent? Then maybe Stoner was correct in his assessment which reflects Doohan's words here. Rossi managed to win and podium regularly when he came back from leg injury (which has for all intents and purposes, has completely healed, as nobody had made any mention of it) but while suffering from a shoulder injury. However, it has since been repaired and near completely on the mend (even according to Rossi himself). Yet he is struggling with the Ducati in the dry and taking people out in the wet, seems rather sudden to have lost so much "talent" in as little as a few months if you consider he took Yamaha to the podium in the season finale. Which is why I believe he still has all the talent he had last year and the year before that, but a great bike masked his real abilities. How will Doohan's comments be received, on one thread, his word about the crash are gold, but here he seems to say Rossi's talent is at the tale end, giving credence to the linear relationship of 'ambition over talent' that Stoner cited.



I especially liked this comment, as it reminds me of a few members (I won't name any names). But perhaps a particular boy-band brand of fan is starting to leave the spectators masses, as this time more disagreed than agreed. Granted still half agreed with this comment below:



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Discuss

Jumkie said:

So Mick thinks Rossi is at the bottom of the slope. I fully expect Rossi's fans to jump all over him, as they do when ever somebody has suggested Rossi is close to done. I'm sure they will remain consistent in their chastising of people who have suggested Rossi is at the tail end of his career, and too old to cut it. Or, maybe this time, they will use it as a justification for his recent struggling? Let the spin begin...



LINK





For the record, I totally disagree with this assessment. Rossi is till very much at the top of his own game, same hunger, same self-confidence, same aggressive tactics, same talent as before, and great health; not to mention, God knows he's still has all the support resources in the world to compete at the highest level.



How will some answer this conundrum? Is he struggling because he has lost talent? Then maybe Stoner was correct in his assessment which reflects Doohan's words here. Rossi managed to win and podium regularly when he came back from leg injury (which has for all intents and purposes, has completely healed, as nobody had made any mention of it) but while suffering from a shoulder injury. However, it has since been repaired and near completely on the mend (even according to Rossi himself). Yet he is struggling with the Ducati in the dry and taking people out in the wet, seems rather sudden to have lost so much "talent" in as little as a few months if you consider he took Yamaha to the podium in the season finale. Which is why I believe he still has all the talent he had last year and the year before that, but a great bike masked his real abilities. How will Doohan's comments be received, on one thread, his word about the crash are gold, but here he seems to say Rossi's talent is at the tale end, giving credence to the linear relationship of 'ambition over talent' that Stoner cited.



I especially liked this comment, as it reminds me of a few members (I won't name any names). But perhaps a particular boy-band brand of fan is starting to leave the spectators masses, as this time more disagreed than agreed. Granted still half agreed with this comment below:



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Discuss

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That post is fantastic - someone took the bitter pills. (EDIT: I'm talking about "Nine is Better than Five" not Doohan)

My view. Doohan was always a big supporter of Rossi and mentored him in his early days at Honda so I think the line that "Doohan is a hater" is rubbish.



I agree with Doohan's assessment in that Rossi is at the bottom of the slope. The way I read that is that he has to now climb to reach the top again which is obviously a lot harder than descending. It is now harder than ever for Rossi to win a championship - the level of the competition and his age as compared to his competitor's ages come into it. I still believe he can do it. He hasn't lost his talent overnight but it will be a lot harder now for him to return. In the absence of such stiff competition, he may already have gotten there (like Mick - as big a fan of Mick as I am/was).

I'm not really sure what it is with former Australian world champs, but they give some pretty hair-brained assessments of MotoGP, imo.



Rossi is not done, and he's certainly not at the bottom of the slope. Rossi dislikes the new Bridgestone tires that are supposedly much harder than what he used to win his titles in 2008 and 2009. If Bridgestone reintroduced the 2009 control tire, Rossi would be right back at the sharp end. I don't know whether or not he could beat Stoner on a perfectly sorted RC212V, but he certainly wouldn't be at the bottom of the slope.



As for Seven Is Greater Than Five, it wouldn't surprise me if he frequents this forum. I thought Boppers were insufferable when Rossi was winning, but now that Rossi is probably past his prime, Boppers are absolutely insufferable.

Jumkie said:

So Mick thinks Rossi is at the bottom of the slope. I fully expect Rossi's fans to jump all over him, as they do when ever somebody has suggested Rossi is close to done. I'm sure they will remain consistent in their chastising of people who have suggested Rossi is at the tail end of his career, and too old to cut it. Or, maybe this time, they will use it as a justification for his recent struggling? Let the spin begin...



LINK





For the record, I totally disagree with this assessment. Rossi is till very much at the top of his own game, same hunger, same self-confidence, same aggressive tactics, same talent as before, and great health; not to mention, God knows he's still has all the support resources in the world to compete at the highest level.



How will some answer this conundrum? Is he struggling because he has lost talent? Then maybe Stoner was correct in his assessment which reflects Doohan's words here. Rossi managed to win and podium regularly when he came back from leg injury (which has for all intents and purposes, has completely healed, as nobody had made any mention of it) but while suffering from a shoulder injury. However, it has since been repaired and near completely on the mend (even according to Rossi himself). Yet he is struggling with the Ducati in the dry and taking people out in the wet, seems rather sudden to have lost so much "talent" in as little as a few months if you consider he took Yamaha to the podium in the season finale. Which is why I believe he still has all the talent he had last year and the year before that, but a great bike masked his real abilities. How will Doohan's comments be received, on one thread, his word about the crash are gold, but here he seems to say Rossi's talent is at the tale end, giving credence to the linear relationship of 'ambition over talent' that Stoner cited.



I especially liked this comment, as it reminds me of a few members (I won't name any names). But perhaps a particular boy-band brand of fan is starting to leave the spectators masses, as this time more disagreed than agreed. Granted still half agreed with this comment below:



11802:9X WC.png]



Discuss

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I am expecting the brain of a least one of our number to explode now mick has been revealed as a hater, as more than one poster on crash has opined. Perhaps there will be a rush to embrace haterism now that it involves such company.



What he is basically saying is the obvious, that maintaining motivation and remaining injury free etc to a sufficient degree to remain at the absolute peak for over a decade is difficult, and he should know. I actually disagree with him also, I think rossi was close to his absolute peak as recently as 2008 and can be there again if the future ducati is no longer an absolute pig .



Great respect as I have and everyone should have for mick, he is not immune from his own biases and allegiances like everyone else. If he is going to be casey's proxy in the mind games with rossi though, as jb sometimes is for valentino, it could be rather fun.

if rossi is at the bottom of the slope, and can run with the front guys in the coming races, what does that say about them? if he is at the bottom, and they are at the top, it cant be a very big hill, no?

mylexicon said:

I'm not really sure what it is with former Australian world champs, but they give some pretty hair-brained assessments of MotoGP, imo.

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Agree. Hopefully Stoner will not follow in the footsteps of Doohan and Gardner - in that respect. Happy to say Bayliss hasn't fallen into

this pattern.

Good ole Mick......telling it like it is



Of course Rossi is not a spring chicken in racing, and its only when you think back-this is his 11th season in Motogp! However times have changed a lot since Micks reign and you only need to look at Troy Bayliss, Troy Corser, Max Biaggi, Alex Barros and Carlos Checa to see that older age doesn't mean you can't win anymore-like it use to.



Rossi has not lost talent, more so physical ability with age and recent injury, Rossi is making serious adjustment both mentally and physically in dealing with the Ducati and trying to fix it. I do agree Jum that the Yamaha did mask Rossi's injuries last season, however IMO this was because of the way they developed the M1 into such a usable, easier to turn package, which in a sense is a big part of the reason for his continued success on it. And can explain why riders can continue on for much longer at the sharp end than in Doohan's time. Being able to engineer and set-up a bike with and around a rider, compensating for his injury/aging needs, and still make be competitive and even win, is probably the greatest talent of all.......



Races such as Malaysia 2010 and indeed last weekend prove that Rossi has certainly not lost his ability to pass half the field in under ten laps, with much younger riders flailing behind. And the latter example was not on the M1. No doubt many are already thinking that Mick is on the Honda payroll and is adding some little uppercuts to try too offset Rossi's mindset. I don't believe this is the case though, IMO Mick has a good point about 10 years in GP, no doubt the physicality and the Mental struggle to compete at this level for that long would certainly take a toll, and in Rossi's case, his longevity at the sharp end is probably well explained in Dr Costa's assessment of VR's 'playful' mindset in the feature length Doco 'Faster' which has been referenced here recently.



Summaries of the state of VR's and his teams talent have been coming thick, fast and very prematurely recently to band-aid some fans extremely bias existing arguments over Rossi's career. This however is not the case here from Doohan, Mick knows better and is being far more general. As I've always said, the question whether or not VR and his team can still do it will be answered after a couple of seasons on the Ducati. I think they can.



The fact that Rossi is still there, with whats on the line, now trying to chase those Honda's and Yamaha's down with great riders on them, when so many other offers are on the table and many millions are in the bank, for me means that VR hasn't lost the the most important thing......which has brought him what he has achieved.......

i'm more inclined to think that rossi is just now moving away from his peak/prime. i say this because he's starting to lose physical attributes (however little) but probably has more in the mental tank than anyone else on the field. i can compare it to michael jordan in that i believe he was in his prime when he was 33/34 simply because he was SO MUCH smarter than everyone on the court that he didn't need to exploit his physical advantages.



more on topic, everyone's entitled to their opinion. is this the same article dennis noyes touched on? he said something that doohan's theory is that every rider has about 10 years to be near the top and then fatigue hits. rainey said 10-12. but, as noyes said, he doesn't see this "fatigue" in rossi who started in 96 but moved to 500s in 2000. if anything, you can see still the same fire/hunger in him. digger brought up a good point, if he's at the "bottom" of the slope and the younger riders are nearing their primes, and yet rossi can still run at the front (at least with the yamaha just a few months ago). says a lot about the man, in my opinion, if he can still stay there. remains to be seen on the ducati though.

As the poster from crash stated, Doohans run of glory was helped by lack of great competition, but as we have discussed, Rossi;s five straight came against even weaker competition. The road to the title has been much tougher since 2006 and the numbers prove it.

The Doctor is obviously at a critical moment in his career. Getting back to the top with Ducati is probably the biggest challenge he has ever faced. That said, he has a lot of races to improve on the Ducati and show that he still has something left in the tank. I'm not ready to stick a fork in The Doctor until he is soundly beaten in 2012, on a new bike he and JB developed.



It's simply too early in the season to say he's done, especially with a new machine in the works.

Well even Rossi and his 'buddy' uccio realise he is getting older, thay have talked about a move to WSBK in the future. Did anyone else read the recent interview of Sete that is posted at gpone, he said Rossi moved to Ducati because he needed more motivation, and maybe he did need a challenge to bring back his hunger for racing. I know some people who shine the most under pressure, it brings them to life. Atleast that's my positive spin on the situation and after reading Sete's thoughts I hope all these guys can leave racing and have the attitude of gratefulness and peace that Sete has.

He also had this to say about Rossi

"Despite everything that happened, I still have tremendous respect for him. I'm sorry we had some confrontations, but I don't hold a grudge. Quite the opposite, actually: if I was a top rider, it was thanks to him. And he respected me because, like with Stoner, beating a great just makes you better."

Talk about typically taking things out of context - Mighty Mick is only saying it as it is nothing more nothing less - VR is a brilliant rider no doubt and could possibly gain another championship but the hour glass is starting to run compared to the young breed at the top right now.

As for what is it with former Aussie champions ? Gardner is the only one with a bitter pill to swallow - Doohan Bayliss commedable ambassador's

FTE217 said:

Talk about typically taking things out of context - Mighty Mick is only saying it as it is nothing more nothing less - VR is a brilliant rider no doubt and could possibly gain another championship

but the hour glass is starting to run compared to the young breed at the top right now.

As for what is it with former Aussie champions ? Gardner is the only one with a bitter pill to swallow - Doohan Bayliss commedable ambassador's

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Rossi could win a Hayden like championship at this point in his career where everything just falls right, but i dont see him having any more 8-10 win championship seasons.

povol said:

Rossi could win a Hayden like championship at this point in his career if stoner just falls right, but i dont see him having any more 8-10 win championship seasons.

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hehe I'm sure others will like the above

As for doing the championship via podium finish's true but how gay

povol said:

As the poster from crash stated, Doohans run of glory was helped by lack of great competition, but as we have discussed, Rossi;s five straight came against even weaker competition. The road to the title has been much tougher since 2006 and the numbers prove it.

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eh, 2 out of 4 years sounds pretty good to me...

povol said:

As the poster from crash stated, Doohans run of glory was helped by lack of great competition, but as we have discussed, Rossi;s five straight came against even weaker competition. The road to the title has been much tougher since 2006 and the numbers prove it.

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The poster concerned perhaps conveniently ignored max biaggi, dispatched with equal ease by both doohan and rossi. I always love this line of argument in general, as I think you and others have implied in this thread, given that the logical corollary and only way you can really argue that rossi is better, which he may well be , is to acknowledge that lorenzo and stoner are really really good and mick didn't beat anyone of their quality .



Those who actually followed mick when he was racing also know that he demonstrated he was in the class of rainey and schwantz in 2002 prior to his crash, not that him crashing detracts from their 2002 and 2003 championships since it was his business not to do so.

Hmmm, This thread has stayed far more reasonable than I expected.

Talpa said:

Races such as Malaysia 2010 and indeed last weekend prove that Rossi has certainly not lost his ability to pass half the field in under ten laps, with much younger riders flailing behind.

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Last week-end's race proves nothing, other than that you continually post the type of arrant fanboy nonsense of which you accuse others, given that valentino I seem to recall actually crashed, whilst several of his younger competitors, flailing or otherwise, did not.



There is little or no evidence that valentino is finished, and imo he is far from that condition, but not because of last weekend's race.

Good call bluegreen. Talps, not completely crazy response, half well done. Digger, i like u.



So far good thread, but then again, look at the respondents (with one exception )



But that may b short lived as i think i saw Rob lurking.

michaelm said:

Last week-end's race proves nothing, other than that you continually post the type of arrant fanboy nonsense of which you accuse others, given that valentino I seem to recall actually crashed, whilst several of his younger competitors, flailing or otherwise, did not.



There is little or no evidence that valentino is finished, and imo he is far from that condition, but not because of last weekend's race.

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Are you denying that Rossi passed nearly half the field in under 8 laps last week? Because that's what happened, no-one else did this......