Rossi: 800cc THE biggest mistake for 15 years

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Sep 18 2009, 11:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Agree with you Jum.

Rossi has been saying some interesting stuff of late, some is posturing for position as we head towards another year with contract time comeing up, but this is something that the fans would agree with even if it is a whinge/whine about the old days

To me the 990's offered options in terms of riding styles, cornering and the opportunity to use the riders skill to ride around problems, they required more manual input to 'plan' etc awheras the 800cc formula just hasn't worked as it does not offer those same challenges.

With the 990's it wasn't unusual to see battles for position that came down to skill and daring and yes, whilst this still happens in teh 800cc we to often see riders suffering due to power restrictions caused by the need to conserve fule.

To me that isn't racing even though I can watch and enjoy it.

But to me, the interesting thing would be if there was a decision to revert what rules would be kept in place, what new ones would be implemented and who would be most advantaged as there is no doubt that Dorna would not revert direct to th old formule due to the loss of face.



Tom, I agree, there have been some good races but to me the 800's lack the atmosphere and the aura of the 500/990cc era and this is what I think most people miss, the mystique of these machines and riders.







Gaz

How's things goin' Gaz?

I too loved the 990's just as I loved the 500's. I now love the 800's.

The arguement about the number of winners is not a capacity arguement it is a rider arguement in the first instance but probably first and foremost it is a manufacturer arguement.

In the 990cc era the satelite Honda's on a lot of days were as good as or better than the other factories factory bikes and were very close to as good as the Honda factory bikes. Back in those days it was less clearly defined that Repsol owned Honda. Since then I am certain that Repsol has contracted in to their sponsorship package a clear advantage in bike spec for their team.

So in summary it is off the track that racing on number of winners has been effected rather than on the track.

I agree with Tom and not with Rossi...






















Hahahahahahahaha!

Gaz, you were too nice!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Sep 19 2009, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with Tom and not with Rossi...



Hahahahahahahaha!

Gaz, you were too nice!


Qualification is needed to really give an opinion here, I would say that VR is most qualified as he is the only rider (in the world!!!) qualified. He alone has won a world title on a 500cc, 990cc and 800cc machine.

I would also welcome comments from Capirex, interesting to see his view as well, this isn't too unusual for VR, he has made statements like this back in 07 and in 08.

<span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%no.................


been saying since the day they announced those ..... 800s....Bring back the 990s.

ANYONE who says the 800s are as good let alone better than the 990s is a ....... ........not just you're run-a-the-mill tard... but a full blone maxi super ....... ........ the kind of tard that pees himself in public, never been on a motorbike, and eats his own poop..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Sep 19 2009, 02:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%no.................


been saying since the day they announced those ..... 800s....Bring back the 990s.

ANYONE who says the 800s are as good let alone better than the 990s is a ....... ........not just you're run-a-the-mill tard... but a full blone maxi super ....... ........ the kind of tard that pees himself in public, never been on a motorbike, and eats his own poop..
Al....you're speaking my language bro

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Sep 18 2009, 08:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Qualification is needed to really give an opinion here, I would say that VR is most qualified as he is the only rider (in the world!!!) qualified. He alone has won a world title on a 500cc, 990cc and 800cc machine.

I would also welcome comments from Capirex, interesting to see his view as well, this isn't too unusual for VR, he has made statements like this back in 07 and in 08.

I just couldn't resist mate, I am sorry... It is just that we all were agreeing, imagine that... of course except Tom, which was pointed out before me.

So I will apolize because all opinions are welcome... Sorry Tom!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Sep 19 2009, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I just couldn't resist mate, I am sorry... It is just that we all were agreeing, imagine that... of course except Tom, which was pointed out before me.

So I will apolize because all opinions are welcome... Sorry Tom!

I know what you mean mate.....been a lot of agreeing these days!!! Gaz and I always end up on the same page with our big ones lately, maybe its a good thing- although Curve is helping with his usual Curve balls, last one was particularly enjoyable Curve, I'm still giggling!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Sep 18 2009, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%no.................


been saying since the day they announced those ..... 800s....Bring back the 990s.

ANYONE who says the 800s are as good let alone better than the 990s is a ....... ........not just you're run-a-the-mill tard... but a full blone maxi super ....... ........ the kind of tard that pees himself in public, never been on a motorbike, and eats his own poop..
U could have just said "tom" and saved urself alot of resizing, caps, typing, and all the colorful theatatric in ur post.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Sep 19 2009, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How's things goin' Gaz?

Getting there mate, still looking for work and not to happy about having toattend a mate's funeral today, but we all have to go sometime and he would have been laughing at that those that turned up in suits

Don't worry though, the chill pills will wear off eventually and more work will need to be done to bring a few people into line (joking people - ), but at the moment I aint biting as there is far more important stuff for me than discussing who has the biggest ..... in a bike forum


Actually though, this is an interesting topic and as much as people seem to think that I (amongst others) have a 'tall poppy syndrome' thing with Rossi, I personally don't suspect that Dorna will listen to any aspect regarding racing unless it has his support so I actually see this as positive and look forward to the next month or two of Dorna ponderings and blame shifting.



And hows things your side of the world Arra?





Gaz

Just to throw something in -(here we go guys) - the comparison in the initial chart is slightly unfair as it is comparing longer period of time for the 990cc against the 800cc when calculating total race winners so on a year by year basis. So, here on a year by year are the winners since the first full season of the four stroke class (did not include 2002).

2009 (13 of 17 races completed) - 5 race winners to date (Honda 2 - Dovisioso 1/Pedrosa 1, Yamaha 9 - Rossi 6/Lorenzo 3, Ducati 2 - Stoner)

2008 (18 races) - 4 race winners (Honda 2 - Pedrosa, Yamaha 10 - Rossi 9/Lorenzo 1, Ducati 6 - Stoner 6)

2007 (18 races) - 5 race winners (Honda 2 - Pedrosa, Yamaha 4 - Rossi, Suzuki 1 - Vermuelen, Ducati 11 - Stoner 10/Capirossi 1)

2006 (17 races) - 7 race winners (Honda 8 - Hayden 2/Pedrosa 2/Melandri 3/Elias 1, Yamaha 5 - Rossi, Ducati 4 - Capirex 3/Bayliss1)

2005 (17 races) - 5 race winners (Honda 4 - Hayden 1/Barros 1/Melandri 2, Yamaha 11 - Rossi, Ducati 2 - Capirossi)

2004 (16 races) - 4 race winners (Honda 7 - Gibernau 4/Biaggi 1/Tamada 2, Yamaha 9 - Rossi)

2003 (16 races) - 4 race winners (Honda 6 - Gibernau 4/Biaggi 2, Yamaha 9 - Rossi, Ducati 1 - Capirossi

Dissect away and to initiate the arguments.

Average race winners per year 800cc formula - 14 across 3 years - 4.8 per year or thereabouts

Average race winners per year 990cc formula - 20 across 4 years - 5 per year







Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Sep 19 2009, 08:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Getting there mate, still looking for work and not to happy about having toattend a mate's funeral today, but we all have to go sometime and he would have been laughing at that those that turned up in suits

Don't worry though, the chill pills will wear off eventually and more work will need to be done to bring a few people into line (joking people - ), but at the moment I aint biting as there is far more important stuff for me than discussing who has the biggest ..... in a bike forum


Actually though, this is an interesting topic and as much as people seem to think that I (amongst others) have a 'tall poppy syndrome' thing with Rossi, I personally don't suspect that Dorna will listen to any aspect regarding racing unless it has his support so I actually see this as positive and look forward to the next month or two of Dorna ponderings and blame shifting.



And hows things your side of the world Arra?

Gaz

Dull and grey (being the UK). Sorry to hear about the funeral.

The chief consideration facing Dorna is cost, and Moto GP is between a rock and a hard place: - unable to feed the crippling and untamable costs of the chimera/monster creation that is the 800cc class which has turned against them, and unsure about the ramifications of introducing a partial grid of 1000cc proddy engines into a prototype class.

The Flammini's hold all the cards right now, and are waiting to play their hand.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Sep 19 2009, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%no.................


been saying since the day they announced those ..... 800s....Bring back the 990s.

ANYONE who says the 800s are as good let alone better than the 990s is a ....... ........not just you're run-a-the-mill tard... but a full blone maxi super ....... ........ the kind of tard that pees himself in public, never been on a motorbike, and eats his own poop..


+1. Period.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Sep 19 2009, 01:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just to throw something in -(here we go guys) - the comparison in the initial chart is slightly unfair as it is comparing longer period of time for the 990cc against the 800cc when calculating total race winners so on a year by year basis. So, here on a year by year are the winners since the first full season of the four stroke class (did not include 2002).

2009 (13 of 17 races completed) - 5 race winners to date (Honda 2 - Dovisioso 1/Pedrosa 1, Yamaha 9 - Rossi 6/Lorenzo 3, Ducati 2 - Stoner)

2008 (18 races) - 4 race winners (Honda 2 - Pedrosa, Yamaha 10 - Rossi 9/Lorenzo 1, Ducati 6 - Stoner 6)

2007 (18 races) - 5 race winners (Honda 2 - Pedrosa, Yamaha 4 - Rossi, Suzuki 1 - Vermuelen, Ducati 11 - Stoner 10/Capirossi 1)

2006 (17 races) - 7 race winners (Honda 8 - Hayden 2/Pedrosa 2/Melandri 3/Elias 1, Yamaha 5 - Rossi, Ducati 4 - Capirex 3/Bayliss1)

2005 (17 races) - 5 race winners (Honda 4 - Hayden 1/Barros 1/Melandri 2, Yamaha 11 - Rossi, Ducati 2 - Capirossi)

2004 (16 races) - 4 race winners (Honda 7 - Gibernau 4/Biaggi 1/Tamada 2, Yamaha 9 - Rossi)

2003 (16 races) - 4 race winners (Honda 6 - Gibernau 4/Biaggi 2, Yamaha 9 - Rossi, Ducati 1 - Capirossi

Dissect away and to initiate the arguments.

Average race winners per year 800cc formula - 14 across 3 years - 4.8 per year or thereabouts

Average race winners per year 990cc formula - 20 across 4 years - 5 per year

Gaz

Thanks for the info.

Costs have tripled, the racing spectacle has been injured, manufacturers and teams are leaving the sport. We've endured all of those things and the racing is still not any better than it was in the 990 era.

The 800s remind me of the 500s in a lot of way b/c they separate the men from the boys from the moment the lights go out, but I think the 990s taught us that a lot more guys can ride than we thought. The 990s make it look as though the 500s and 800s were simply unusual machines that required a very specific skill set. The 990s on the other hand seemed to suit anyone who could make some minor adjustments to their style.

When a rider is confident and comfortable on the bike they can push the sport to new boundaries. Does anyone remember Elias at Estoril in 2006? He was breaking so late and getting the bike so crossed up into turn 1 and the parabolica interior that NO ONE was going to successfully pass him in those breaking zones. I still think his performance is the farthest mankind has gone with a bike because no one has ever ridden that far onto the ragged edge and lived to tell the tale. Many riders have treated us to incredible moments, but Elias' performance is the most recent and performed on a GP bike with the most prodigious resume.

The longer the 800cc era drags on, the more I realize that I don't really care about how fast the bikes go around a circuit. Horsepower is what gives fans the dizzying euphoria. Just the thought of a human being throwing a leg over a 250hp bike that is as loud as a jumbo jet during take off and makes 200+mph is enough to make anyone's heart rate elevate. But just when you thought that watching someone survive a ride on the beast would be enough to entertain you, MotoGP would feature 5-7 riders flying in perfect formation at 200mph down the front straight at Mugello and then backing it into turn 1. Mindblowing.

I think it's the raw power of the machine that makes the sport so mind-boggling. I can barely make use of 100hp, to think that a professional motorcycle racer would be making use of 3 times as much power (if the 990s were still alive) makes me happy I went to college.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 19 2009, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thanks for the info.

Costs have tripled, the racing spectacle has been injured, manufacturers and teams are leaving the sport. We've endured all of those things and the racing is still not any better than it was in the 990 era.

The 800s remind me of the 500s in a lot of way b/c they separate the men from the boys from the moment the lights go out, but I think the 990s taught us that a lot more guys can ride than we thought. The 990s make it look as though the 500s and 800s were simply unusual machines that required a very specific skill set. The 990s on the other hand seemed to suit anyone who could make some minor adjustments to their style.

When a rider is confident and comfortable on the bike they can push the sport to new boundaries. Does anyone remember Elias at Estoril in 2006? He was breaking so late and getting the bike so crossed up into turn 1 and the parabolica interior that NO ONE was going to successfully pass him in those breaking zones. I still think his performance is the farthest mankind has gone with a bike because no one has ever ridden that far onto the ragged edge and lived to tell the tale. Many riders have treated us to incredible moments, but Elias' performance is the most recent and performed on a GP bike with the most prodigious resume.

The longer the 800cc era drags on, the more I realize that I don't really care about how fast the bikes go around a circuit. Horsepower is what gives fans the dizzying euphoria. Just the thought of a human being throwing a leg over a 250hp bike that is as loud as a jumbo jet during take off and makes 200+mph is enough to make anyone's heart rate elevate. But just when you thought that watching someone survive a ride on the beast would be enough to entertain you, MotoGP would feature 5-7 riders flying in perfect formation at 200mph down the front straight at Mugello and then backing it into turn 1. Mindblowing.

I think it's the raw power of the machine that makes the sport so mind-boggling. I can barely make use of 100hp, to think that a professional motorcycle racer would be making use of 3 times as much power (if the 990s were still alive) makes me happy I went to college.

Now yu talking my language.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Sep 18 2009, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not quite, but you've never been the best listener or the quickest to catch on.
Well, as long as I'm miles ahead of you I'm cool wit that. But instead of trying to send insults in return to some well deserved reminders why don't you enlighten the public about when you "realized" Rossi were over the top?

How cute.

No you're dumber, no you're dumber. Well at least i'm a little less dumber than you.

I guess the difference is that most of you guys just want to see a big engine slide around a track, where i'm more interested in seeing riders chase a thin edge of perfection where the penalty for getting it wrong is big. Thats why i have enjoyed the 500's and 800's more than the 990's. Good looking out by the way with the average winners per season, with 2006 the usual anomaly things are basically the same now. I know i'm in a minority here but opinions are opinions and i'm pretty happy enjoying the present while you guys ..... and complain that things aren't good enough compared to the past. You might consider yourselfes to be 'right' but i'm probably enjoying this season more than you Take it easy guys

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 19 2009, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, as long as I'm miles ahead of you I'm cool wit that. But instead of trying to send insults in return to some well deserved reminders why don't you enlighten the public about when you "realized" Rossi were over the top?

You are miles away from me for sure, but i don't think for a second its 'ahead'. If you understood or remembered correctly, i said that Rossi was past his best. I also said that he remains one of the, clear best riders in the world and that is testiment to just how good he was while at his best (2005). It really isn't difficult

Another point is the sound imo.

Too put it bluntly.... the 800's sound like .... compared to the 990's and the 500's. Every bike has the same raspy noise to them except the Yamaha's and Kawa which have a little more base because of the inline config.
The 990's on the other hand, every bike had a whole different sound to them. The KR Proton's caused earthquakes while a Suzuki or Kawa screamed like a banshee from hell. So many different configuarations with so many different awesome sounds, i truly miss that when i go to a Motogp race. The sound is for me one of the most important reasons to visit a race, and that for me is another big dissapointment brought by the 800's, even though this season has been really good.
I was at the qualifing of the Assen TT where they had the first promotion ride of a Moto2 machine and quite franckly it sounded better than the Motogp machines.