Rossi: 800cc THE biggest mistake for 15 years

CORRECT Vale

Rossi: 800cc MotoGP biggest mistake for 15 years
Valentino Rossi has labelled the decision to cut MotoGP engine capacity from 990cc to 800cc for 2007 as 'the biggest mistake in the last 15 years'.

In an interview with Dennis Noyes for Spain's Motociclismo publication, the reigning six time MotoGP world champion - a premier-class title winner on a 500cc two-stroke, then 990cc and 800cc four-strokes - stated:

“The 990 motorcycle was 'rough' and wild, but with a great motor and a lot power. The 800 is worse, simply worse, it is the same motorcycle with less power. I was very sad at the beginning, now it has improved, yes... But the power from the 990 made it a lot more fun".

Rossi was then asked how the show can be improved for fans watching trackside and on TV - and has answer made painful reading for those behind the change to 800cc.

"For me the spectacle with the 990 was the same as with the 500. There were big battles and large slides - this is what the public wants, no? The 990 slid a lot on the entry to the turns, but above all on the exit of the corners.

“With the 800... I believe that the 800 are the biggest mistake the world championship has made in the last 15 years. We have lost a great part of the spectacle and part of this is because electronics have advanced so much.

“For me the manufacturers committed a great error when they changed to 800cc. The 990s were better in every way.”

The cut in engine capacity was designed to limit top speeds, but has resulted in higher cornering speeds and greater dependency on electronics.

To rub salt into the wound, Dani Pedrosa took his factory Honda to a new all-time Motorcycle Grand Prix (Need for Speed: Shift. Think Fast. Drive Faster. Order now) top speed of 349.3 km/h in the opening practice session for this year's Italian Grand Prix.

No satellite rider has yet won an 800cc race, while it took until this year's Catalan Grand Prix for an 800cc race to be won with a last lap pass.

The following table also shows how the change to smaller engines has halved the number of different race winners (from 14 to 7).

MotoGP race winners: 990cc (2002-2006)
Honda: 10 - Valentino Rossi, Sete Gibernau, Max Biaggi, Marco Melandri, Nicky Hayden, Dani Pedrosa, Alex Barros, Toni Elias, Makoto Tamada, Tohru Ukawa.
Yamaha: 2 - Valentino Rossi, Max Biaggi.
Ducati: 2 - Loris Capirossi, Troy Bayliss.
Suzuki: 0
Kawasaki: 0
Aprilia: 0
Roberts: 0
WCM: 0
Moriwaki: 0

MotoGP race winners: 800cc (2007 onwards)
Yamaha: 2 - Valentino Rossi, Jorge Lorenzo.
Ducati: 2 - Casey Stoner, Loris Capirossi.
Honda: 2 - Dani Pedrosa, Andrea Dovizioso.
Suzuki 1 - Chris Vermeulen.
Kawasaki: 0
Roberts: 0
Ilmor: 0


crash net

Can't dispute those facts. Now the GOAT is saying what most of have been bitching about since 2007.

The fans have been saying this since midway thru 2007. Maybe the powers that be will listen to GOAT but i doubt it.This really is a no brainer and would save millions upon millions of dollars for the teams. Dust off the plans for the 990, .... can electronics, .... can fuel restrictions and lets see who has the balls to tame the beast. That my friends is racing.

...damn, my first double post and some how Povol got in between them..lol

xxCurvexx where ya at buddy, this is your topic right here!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>For me the spectacle with the 990 was the same as with the 500. There were big battles and large slides - this is what the public wants, no? The 990 slid a lot on the entry to the turns, but above all on the exit of the corners.
Not important to Dorna, 250 kids don't know how to slide.

We have discussed this to the death already.

I think Rossi is setting up his move to WSBK

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 18 2009, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The fans have been saying this since midway thru 2007. Maybe the powers that be will listen to GOAT but i doubt it.This really is a no brainer and would save millions upon millions of dollars for the teams. Dust off the plans for the 990, .... can electronics, .... can fuel restrictions and lets see who has the balls to tame the beast. That my friends is racing.

Well said Povol

Rossi is getting old and bitching about progress, its standard and someone has to do it. This season has been the best for a LONG time and its obvious that its getting harder to win in motogp, i think thats great for the spectacle.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 18 2009, 07:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The fans have been saying this since midway thru 2007. Maybe the powers that be will listen to GOAT but i doubt it.This really is a no brainer and would save millions upon millions of dollars for the teams. Dust off the plans for the 990, .... can electronics, .... can fuel restrictions and lets see who has the balls to tame the beast. That my friends is racing.

Sounds more like suicide if there is no control tire. I like the idea behind your changes though.

I really want the 990s back, but I almost can't bare to watch Dorna and the MSMA fumble through another capacity change in the premier class. I'm of the opinion that 50% of the problem in the 800cc era is fuel (the other 50% of the problem is cost). I say before going back to the 990s, Dorna should have a look at returning the sport to 24L and they should actually use the control tire to control performance. Dorna should get Honda and Yamaha to dust off the old spring valve motors and see what happens when they actually have enough fuel to make it to the end.

If a testing with the spring valved engines proves to be reasonably successful, sign a deal with Honda and Yamaha to provide spring-valved engines to privateers at a much lower cost then 700,000 euro. Furthermore, the governing body needs to fly all over the world to small manufacturing outfits everywhere and broker a few deals to get relatively cheap 800cc customer engines on the grid. With 24L of fuel, competent teams with decent electronic engineers can get an electronics package assembled that will make them relatively competitive.

In the long run though, I think they have got to ditch displacement rules altogether and come up with a viable way to control horsepower. At some point, both SBK and MotoGP are going to reach the same level of performance (as long as SBK stays at 1000cc). The only thing that GP are going to be able to market is PROTOTYPE racing. Prototypes aren't really that fascinating when everyone is running almost identical technology. Make a max capacity rule that is relevant to the production market (like 1250cc or 1400cc) and ditch circular piston rules. Let the engine builders play around with all kinds of configs and layouts and LET THEM DEVELOP THEIR IDEAS even if they only create superfluous technology.

Anyway, Rossi is right. The change to 800s was a huge blunder that has gutted the sport, demoralized the riders, and emptied bank accounts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Sep 18 2009, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi is getting old and bitching about progress, its standard and someone has to do it. This season has been the best for a LONG time and its obvious that its getting harder to win in motogp, i think thats great for the spectacle.


+1 for rossi's comments as they are spot on.

-1 for your lame comments ...no offence

as they say "if it aint broke dont fix it"

you dont make sense to me.... id prefer to see riders going sideways smoking the rear using there own bike control that was awesome in the purest form.....this rail riding isnt as fun,...that's one big part of the spectacle thats gone.

you say its gettin harder for riders to win... how the hell is that good for the spectacle? we have 4 riders wining out of 18 unless one of them takes a dive?
what you meant to say was "rossi is winning less races and your loving that"
i agree other riders getting more wins is good but not when its only 4 of them, on the 990's sattelite machines had much more chance running upfront.

this could get worse for sattelite teams ...sponsors may start pulling out as the promotional time they will get on tv from the races will be non existant. isnt that why they put sponsor stickers on the bike?

anyway i should stop now im just rambling.......

but i will keep this comment if i ever need a good laugh:

its obvious that its getting harder to win in motogp, i think thats great for the spectacle

speaking of spetacles you either need a new pair or need to get some cos i dont think your watching the right tv channel or the same races as most of us.

This is what it's all about boys and girls, we all have watched hours and hours of video to see the motorcycle gods do what they do best.

Valentino Rossi....."For me the spectacle with the 990 was the same as with the 500. There were big battles and large slides - this is what the public wants, no? The 990 slid a lot on the entry to the turns, but above all on the exit of the corners."

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Sep 18 2009, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but i will keep this comment if i ever need a good laugh:

its obvious that its getting harder to win in motogp, i think thats great for the spectacle

Nothing new there. According to tom Rossi were over the top sometime right after '05 and it's been all downhill ever since, isn't that so tom?
Considering the time factor 4 years now, he is probably soon in a wheel chair rather than on a prototype motorbike consistently beating the rest of the field.

Rossi has been saying some stuff lately that I've disagreed with, but this time I totally agree with the man.


Tom....



EDIT: ah forget it.

Pretty unanimous then - as you'd expect, we all agree, (with the exception of one member of course).

- Possibly two. GS fan, care to chime in?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Sep 18 2009, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>+1 for rossi's comments as they are spot on.

-1 for your lame comments ...no offence

as they say "if it aint broke dont fix it"

you dont make sense to me.... id prefer to see riders going sideways smoking the rear using there own bike control that was awesome in the purest form.....this rail riding isnt as fun,...that's one big part of the spectacle thats gone.

you say its gettin harder for riders to win... how the hell is that good for the spectacle? we have 4 riders wining out of 18 unless one of them takes a dive?
what you meant to say was "rossi is winning less races and your loving that"
i agree other riders getting more wins is good but not when its only 4 of them, on the 990's sattelite machines had much more chance running upfront.

this could get worse for sattelite teams ...sponsors may start pulling out as the promotional time they will get on tv from the races will be non existant. isnt that why they put sponsor stickers on the bike?

anyway i should stop now im just rambling.......

but i will keep this comment if i ever need a good laugh:

its obvious that its getting harder to win in motogp, i think thats great for the spectacle

speaking of spetacles you either need a new pair or need to get some cos i dont think your watching the right tv channel or the same races as most of us.

I agree that its nice to see wide open battles where one of 5 or so riders can win, but only once in a while. Look back on the seasons when that has happened and they generally come accross as anomale seasons where nobody was particularly strong. When we have battles with fewer riders who are unobtainably fast the spectacle is huge and the fight is remembered for years. I love that. I can appreciate that the 800cc bikes are visually a little more tame, but the 990's looked a bit clumsy and akward until 05/06. The current bikes will slide if the rider makes them, so to see the bikes tamed into inch perfect lines is still very impressive, and lets not forget just how much power these 'little' bikes have.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 18 2009, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nothing new there. According to tom Rossi were over the top sometime right after '05 and it's been all downhill ever since, isn't that so tom?


Not quite, but you've never been the best listener or the quickest to catch on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Sep 18 2009, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The current bikes will slide if the rider makes them, so to see the bikes tamed into inch perfect lines is still very impressive, and lets not forget just how much power these 'little' bikes have.
Well of course they could make them slide but it would cost them time. That's what I miss about the 990s, you could ride them very precisely like a 250/800 or you could brake way deep, square it up and let the sheer power shoot you our of the corner. The 800s have only one way to go fast, earlier braking and higher corner speeds. Maybe it's my bias for later braking and squared up corners and crossed up lines, but I much prefer riders having options in lines.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Sep 18 2009, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pretty unanimous then - as you'd expect, we all agree, (with the exception of one member of course).
It appears we are all wrong then.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Sep 19 2009, 05:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well of course they could make them slide but it would cost them time. That's what I miss about the 990s, you could ride them very precisely like a 250/800 or you could brake way deep, square it up and let the sheer power shoot you our of the corner. The 800s have only one way to go fast, earlier braking and higher corner speeds. Maybe it's my bias for later braking and squared up corners and crossed up lines, but I much prefer riders having options in lines.

Spot on here.......doubters who need further proof of this, check it out......Rossi, Marco, Hayden and Pedders and even KRJR showing how it still should be done!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjtx0PUIdmg

Agree with you Jum.

Rossi has been saying some interesting stuff of late, some is posturing for position as we head towards another year with contract time comeing up, but this is something that the fans would agree with even if it is a whinge/whine about the old days

To me the 990's offered options in terms of riding styles, cornering and the opportunity to use the riders skill to ride around problems, they required more manual input to 'plan' etc awheras the 800cc formula just hasn't worked as it does not offer those same challenges.

With the 990's it wasn't unusual to see battles for position that came down to skill and daring and yes, whilst this still happens in teh 800cc we to often see riders suffering due to power restrictions caused by the need to conserve fule.

To me that isn't racing even though I can watch and enjoy it.

But to me, the interesting thing would be if there was a decision to revert what rules would be kept in place, what new ones would be implemented and who would be most advantaged as there is no doubt that Dorna would not revert direct to th old formule due to the loss of face.



Tom, I agree, there have been some good races but to me the 800's lack the atmosphere and the aura of the 500/990cc era and this is what I think most people miss, the mystique of these machines and riders.







Gaz