Rider or equipment

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jun 4 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>dont forget that there is also a matter of 12kgs and 12cm difference between rossi and lorenzo too..

chuppa chump....55kg & 170cm

rossi ...67kg & 182cm...

might make these comparisons not as clear cut as you all think...


The weight/size of a rider does not change the geometry of the bike! Look at the exhaust hanger in relation to the rear tyre/axle. The rear axle is quite clearly further forward wrt the exhaust on Rossi's bike than it is on Lorenzo's. Then look at the unloaded front suspension - both front wheels are in the air - the bottom of Rossi's forks are further forward than Lorenzo's.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 4 2008, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well marco was sure unlucky at mugello, or do you think he made his own bad luck.

Well the word luck refers to an unpredictable phenomenon, and racing teams spend huge amounts of money understanding things, so they can predict them and minimize as many risks as possible. That's what all the practice and tactics is for and although things don't always go smoothly, the very nature of risk taking is that your decisions may or may not yeild the intended result. Plus i'd hardly call DePuniet crashing a phenomenon.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jun 4 2008, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well the word luck refers to an unpredictable phenomenon, and racing teams spend huge amounts of money understanding things, so they can predict them and minimize as many risks as possible. That's what all the practice and tactics is for and although things don't always go smoothly, the very nature of risk taking is that your decisions may or may not yeild the intended result. Plus i'd hardly call DePuniet crashing a phenomenon.

Who do you think you are using you big words in this forum?

In a way, Marco did contribute to his bad luck, because he was in the right place at the wrong time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Checa_7 @ Jun 4 2008, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Because I have too much spare time on my hands, lets compare..

Melandris Tech 3 season results:
Race Win Pod Pole FLap Pts Plcd
17 0 3 0 0 187 5th

Colin so far:
Race Win Pod Pole Flap Pts Plcd
6 0 1 1 0 58 5th

So overall, no he's not doing any better than Melandri did bar a pole position, they look like getting around about the same results and position.

Yes, I am very sad. Huh? Those are last year's numbers with Gresini. Marco's year with tech3 went more like this:
15 0 2 0 0 75 12th
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jun 4 2008, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interesting numbers, cheers dudeThey'd be a lot more interesting if they were true.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jun 4 2008, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well the word luck refers to an unpredictable phenomenon, and racing teams spend huge amounts of money understanding things, so they can predict them and minimize as many risks as possible. That's what all the practice and tactics is for and although things don't always go smoothly, the very nature of risk taking is that your decisions may or may not yeild the intended result. Plus i'd hardly call DePuniet crashing a phenomenon.
so was he unlucky or not. yes or no ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 4 2008, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>so was he unlucky or not. yes or no ?

sorry, i'm still escaping the syllable police, but i'll turn myself in and just give you "no"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jun 4 2008, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>sorry, i'm still escaping the syllable police, but i'll turn myself in and just give you "no"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jun 4 2008, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>sorry, i'm still escaping the syllable police, but i'll turn myself in and just give you "no"
3425:head_up_ass.jpg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Jun 4 2008, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The weight/size of a rider does not change the geometry of the bike! Look at the exhaust hanger in relation to the rear tyre/axle. The rear axle is quite clearly further forward wrt the exhaust on Rossi's bike than it is on Lorenzo's. Then look at the unloaded front suspension - both front wheels are in the air - the bottom of Rossi's forks are further forward than Lorenzo's.

ok, the weight difference will be reflected in spring rates and suspension damping settings, but to suggest that the extra height of rossi does not affect geometry is frankly puzzling? if this is true,(which its not!) then rossi would be able to ride lorenzos bike with a simple change of footrest position....

extra height usually means extra weight of which some is carried on the upper body. this extra weight
is carried further over the front wheel because of the extra height and so, to avoid overloading the front tyre, more trail can be added, or more rake angle. if it is not changed, then stability is affected especially under hard accel and braking.
these differences may be quite subtle and combined with the changes needed to run the 'stones may add up to the differences that we see there.

but it is not entirely down to the different rubber used is the point i am trying to make.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jun 4 2008, 10:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ok, the weight difference will be reflected in spring rates and suspension damping settings, but to suggest that the extra height of rossi does not affect geometry is frankly puzzling? if this is true,(which its not!) then rossi would be able to ride lorenzos bike with a simple change of footrest position....

extra height usually means extra weight of which some is carried on the upper body. this extra weight
is carried further over the front wheel because of the extra height and so, to avoid overloading the front tyre, more trail can be added, or more rake angle. if it is not changed, then stability is affected especially under hard accel and braking.
these differences may be quite subtle and combined with the changes needed to run the 'stones may add up to the differences that we see there.

but it is not entirely down to the different rubber used is the point i am trying to make.
I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make. The pictures clearly show that the chassis setup of the two bikes are different. If you look at pix of Toseland or Edward's bikes they also have the longer wheelbase setup that Lorenzo has.

I appreciate that the different heights/weights of the riders affect their optimum riding position on similar chassis, and that the suspension settings will be necessarily different.

I am trying to point out that the chassis are no longer the same, mostly because the setup required to get the most out of the Bridgestones is not the same as that required to get the most out of the Michelins.

This is about rear and front axle location wrt the chassis, rather than about ride height, compression and rebound. I'm sure Rossi could ride Lorenzo's bike without even changing the foot rest position, but changing the tyres from Michelins to Bridgestones has necessitated a much more significant chassis change than is normally seen.