Rider or equipment

I feel the first season of the 800s was very generic and TC got the blame. Now with a years experience and data the rider can perfect their setup.

The tyres have been competitive from both manufacturers which is fantastic for the racing.

As for Vale its all about confidence, the more he wins the more cocky he gets and that sets him up to be very hard to beat.

The Tech 3 team have a winning tyre manufacturer again... i still don't think Edwards is doing any better than Melandri did a few seasons ago with the Tech 3 team.

I think Melandri needs to adapt to the bike and not the other way round, he should be watching videos of Stoner's victories and trying to take a few pointers.

Stoner does an amazing job on that bike, i have to give him props.

It's all in the mind.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jun 4 2008, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's VERY debatable. Maybe he is, and Mugello were a trunaround, but so far the Ducati has been a disaster this year, the first year without Capirossi I might add. I think the props should have gone to him more than they did last year.
Stoner as the main developmentrider is a new situation and time will show how he does.
lol loris developed a bike for himself that he couldnt ride himself hahahaha too funny.

i think ducati knows who was responsible for the development of the bike and who wasnt. if loris really did develop it, then they would harly let him go would they. and not to harp on it, but loris said the 07 bike was .... anyhow so i cant see how much development work can be atributed to loris

cliff notes
cant have your cake and eat it too.
he either developed it or he didnt. if he did then he cant ride the bike he developed to save his life.

combination of both i would say.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 4 2008, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>combination of both i would say.

Pretty much my thoughts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jun 4 2008, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Then, how did he win in the first place. If confidence based on results play that much of a role he should have been on a all time low before China and have no chance of winning ever again.
My impression regarding Rossi is that he gets unfocused as he take a solid lead. You could easily add another 5-10 race victories to his list if he had avoided plaing with the pray, only to do a silly misstake and loose the victory. That's the cocky Vale.

I'm no goning to google that, but the point is that he seems to do quite a bit better than he did on the factory team.

I tend to agree here, he should try to adapt and his current style doesn't suite the ducati.

That's VERY debatable. Maybe he is, and Mugello were a trunaround, but so far the Ducati has been a disaster this year, the first year without Capirossi I might add. I think the props should have gone to him more than they did last year.
Stoner as the main developmentrider is a new situation and time will show how he does.
Loris helped to develope the 990,then they made a new bike the way they thought an 800 must be like without listening to Capirossi too much,because everything was new,almost a start from scratch and they had to see what the competitors was doing first .And as soon as Stoner were faster ,and he was much more comfortable on it.They listened to him.
Maybe they thought Melandri would be better at developement than he is.Quite often this year Melandri sais,I'm very slow but i don't know why.

I also agree that being fast is about confidence.But also if you know you have the best bike in the field and it also is suited for you.You get confidence because you don't have to push 110%all the time.
Like Rossi this year with dialed in setup on Bridgestones,or the same as Stoner last year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 4 2008, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>combination of both i would say.


Agreed.

Without one, the other will not occur.

If the bike is perfect but the rider not focused or concentrating, the results will be poor. On the other hand if a rider is focused and confident, yet the bike not so good, well the results will again be poor.

But, when both are in 'play' the results have been there numerous times for all to see.





Garry

things never change.

80% rider
20% bike

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jun 4 2008, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Agreed.

Without one, the other will not occur.

If the bike is perfect but the rider not focused or concentrating, the results will be poor. On the other hand if a rider is focused and confident, yet the bike not so good, well the results will again be poor.

But, when both are in 'play' the results have been there numerous times for all to see.





Garry

Totally agree, Rossi has shown this season that if both rider and bike are working good, they can be on top...last year however was a different story as the bike was pish! Look at Stoner also, he's not all of a sudden gotten ..... has he?

It's a team effort, bike, rider, mechanics, managers, logistics guys, everything.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jun 4 2008, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You should keep on telling yourself that when you run in the next London marathon without any physical practice but a lot of mental practice. I'm sure you will set a new world record.

Run Fat Boy Run!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jun 4 2008, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>things never change.

80% rider
20% bike

maybe with the engine management systems now, its more 65% rider, 35% bike but the sentiment remains the same.

if you think your bike is good, then you will generally ride it better than if you think its got no chance.
this might explain some of nickys repsol problems...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jun 4 2008, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>80% rider
20% bike

Exactly!

And in the case of those riders not able to to perform, and their fans making excuses for them, it is still 80% rider (Not able to adapt to the 800s requirement for corner speed), and 20% bike (e.g. DP212V)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rgvneil @ Jun 4 2008, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's a team effort, bike, rider, mechanics, managers, logistics guys, everything.

Agree with you.
Here's a great article from http://motogpf1.blogspot.com/.
This article show us how Rossi adapted to Bridgsetone tyres, but actually it shows us no matter how good the rider is, he needs a perfect bike (equipment) to perform well

MotoGP : 2008 - This is how Rossi adapted to Bridgestone tyres
Posted by Samura at 9:36 PM

Wednesday, 28 May 2008
Big credit for my pal in Solomoto who gave me this picture which I think can explain why Rossi suddenly become so fast on the Bridgestone tyres, faster than the world champion on his Duke. Rossi took a different approach to his bike because he is using Bridgestone tyres whereas his friends (Lorenzo, Toseland and Edwards) are with Michelin.

Actually, Bridgestone's engineers already told Fiat Yamaha if they want to make the bike works great on the Bridgestone, the fastest way is to move the weight of the bike at the rear, to achieve this means the frame of Yamaha M1 must be extended for 8 mm, there was also a new steering plate (left 2nd row picture), which is a few mm in the front fork; while at the rear, the swing arm was shortened. These two changes make an great impact to the geometry of the frame, which means it moves forward both the front and rear wheel. In this way the load on the rear wheel is greater, and this helps to bring work better for the Bridgestone tires.

The first introduction of the new swing arm (8 mm shorter) was in Shanghai China (2008), please take a look at the first upper left picture where you still can see the welding of the swing arm. Valentino said shortly that he can feel the bike better and can ride as fast as Stoner. So, it will be no wonder if he takes the win in Mugello.

As for the other team, I can see the problems are far from over for them (satellite teams), like San Carlo Honda - Honda Gresini, (the team uses Bridgestone) who has been asking Honda to do the same as Yamaha did to Rossi, but it seems no more update from HRC, instead of the new clutch.

Thank u for the Solomoto (spain).

Once again, great post by Samura.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#46 @ Jun 4 2008, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This article show us how Rossi adapted to Bridgstone tyres, but actually it shows us no matter how good the rider is, he needs a perfect bike (equipment) to perform well

MotoGP : 2008 - This is how Rossi adapted to Bridgstone tyres
Posted by Samura at 9:36 PM

Remind me who gives input to the mechanics and technical guys to make adjustments to the bike?

Pedrobot does not count since his is a toaster anyway....

...but otherwise its the rider and specifcally the soft gray bit between the ears (if you want to get technical)...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jun 4 2008, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All these bikes, even when going from 990 to 800, in smaller or lesser degree are evolution from last years bike. Next years bike is on the drawing board as they start to race this years bike. So, Capirossi's influence on the '07 is undeniable and he loved the early version of th '07 but something changed mid winter and he didn't like it after that. That doesn't keep him from giving valuable feedback, even valuable for other riders. That he couldn't perform his best on the bike is not a contradiction to developing the bike. It limits the development input but doesn't stop it completely and as I said, the '07 was very much finished before stoner had a contract.
Look at the praise he gets from Suzuki and see how Ducati strugles this year. It's a 1 + 1 calculation really, but math and logic never were your strong side was it.
I agree with you,and the thing that happened in the mid winter was Ducati making sure to beat the competition,maybe?perhaps they got information of how much more they had to squeze out of the bike to be sure of being ahead. i don't know.