Qatar Testing 2020

Keshav said:

Why you insist on thinking that a better handling bike would hobble Marquez is unfathomable.

Historically - the thing that most often sets the "aliens" apart from the pack, is their ability to compensate for the short-comings of the engineering people. That's why they were so anxious to hire Stoner and then have the first year rookie rule changed to get Marquez on a full factory bike ASAP.

In light of how many front end crashes Marquez has suffered with, to say nothing of the resulting injuries, it's absurd to posit that the bike is tailored to Marquez's specs. It should be obvious that he'd prefer a bike that doesn't constantly lose the front end, with back end shaking around like a wild bronco; especially when you compare the jiggling Honda to much more stable Ducati which - Makes Just As Much Power.

To make a laughable statement that Honda doesn't care about image and prestige is to admit - you know less than zero about Japanese business culture.

And then - you say there's no incentive to make a better bike that more riders can more successfully compete on. Really? Seriously? Better results as I said, mean more, higher paying sponsorship money - which translates to millions of dollars. Sounds like incentive to me.

And lastly, there's the constructor's championship, which is hugely important to manufacturers. Honda doesn't care about Marquez vs Quattararo. They care about beating Yamaha and upstart Ducati.

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michaelm said:

Have to disagree with you on that. A better handling bike might have less ultimate pace and require a change in some of the characteristics which make MM win championships easily. Same as the 2007 Ducati, which was engineered to be fast as possible with the then nascent electronics probably the only thing making it rideable at all and handled badly/wouldn't turn, but their 1 year placeholding rider from the 250 class just happened to be able to ride the thing, with his own method of getting it through the corners despite the bike refusing to turn. If you could get it through the corners by Stoner's method, which Burgess and Rossi opined basically involved going to the edge of crashing it in every corner, then the straight line speed and acceleration advantage form the engine made it unbeatable by anyone on a Yamaha no matter how well they rode. I think a similar dynamic applies with MM at HRC now, with the spec ECU no longer allowing the engineers to tame the bike, but MM's wrist and the software between his ears replaces that sufficiently that HRC feel no need to re-design the engine. I think it does have a balance shaft now though which goes against Honda engineering tradition.

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Keshav said:

Again - you're cherry picking, refusing to address simple questions that undermine everything you claim to believe. 6 Seasons in and the bike that you allege to be tailor made for MM and he was still crashing twice as much as his closest competitors.

Reduced his crash rate. LOL - That's like an inspector praising a team of firemen because after having the firehouse burn down six years in a row, there was still 8% of the firehouse still unburned.

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Keshav said:

I reckon a better handling Honda would benefit MM over the long haul because he wouldn't need to spend so much energy saving the front end, allowing him to win, perhaps by not as big a margin and perhaps not 4 races from the end of the season - but with fewer injuries. We've all seen how the M1 could be a world beater despite a lower top speed disadvantage. We've seen how a rider much older than Marquez (Dovi) could repeatedly take him to task on the much more stable Ducati, despite the fact that the Ducati doesn't turn as well.

There are reliable reports that Ducati has managed to figure out a way for the riders to engage the hole-shot device - mid-race -without the use of electronics (which would make it illegal) - which if true (and I believe it is) would give considerable advantage to the Ducati riders. If Honda didn't have Marquez there to smooth over the front end issues, they would be right to be nervous this year. If that is, Ducati had better riders. A Doohan or a Stoner or a Marquez comes along ever so many years and the next one is about due. In the meantime, Honda is totally invested in Marc - and stuck with his little brother.

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moto vudu said:

It's not easy to make a bike more than one rider can win on when your #1 rider has such a radical riding style. By maximizing Marc's talent, that allows them to have a bike that's much stronger than the competition in certain areas. If they make a better all-around bike, it's likely Marc would win less because the RCV's limits would be closer (or less than) those of the M1 and Ducati. That could actually cause Marc to crash more often as he would be desperate to take even bigger risks.

You keep talking about prestige and brand visibility, that already have that. Even in WSBK for the past few years HRC hasn't give a damn about making any sort of serious effort. What about their precious image and prestige?? They don't care! It's the Marquez show for them until something changes and forces them to go a different direction.

Bottomline is HRC doesn't have any incentive to change what's currently working for them. Especially now that Marc just committed to stay with them.

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Little Walter said:

This is false logic based on a faulty premises. You are proposing that Honda made the bike to suit Marquez's "radical" style. But in point of fact, Marquez had one of his most dominant seasons in his rookie year on a bike engineered to suit Pedrosa. Marquez's "radical" style was already established well before his first season in the premiere class. As the Ducatis got better and better, HRC engineers grasped at solutions that made the bike faster but less stabile. Only after six seasons did they begin to show any signs of inspiration when it came to the chassis. It's a lot easier using math science to make more power on computer simulation. Making a better handling chassis is much more an intuitive art. Marquez's riding style became more dramatic over time because he was coping with Honda's tendency to focus on power over handling.

HRC wasn't consciously making the bike less stabile in the front end to accommodate MM's riding style. They were making it faster irregardless of the decreased front end feel to keep pace with the Ducatis that had more useable power in part because the Desmo made great horsepower, but more importantly, because it was manageable horsepower as a result of years of experience with versions of the Marelli Magneti electronics long before Honda were forced to do so.

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Little Walter said:

This is false logic based on a faulty premises. You are proposing that Honda made the bike to suit Marquez's "radical" style. But in point of fact, Marquez had one of his most dominant seasons in his rookie year on a bike engineered to suit Pedrosa. Marquez's "radical" style was already established well before his first season in the premiere class. As the Ducatis got better and better, HRC engineers grasped at solutions that made the bike faster but less stabile. Only after six seasons did they begin to show any signs of inspiration when it came to the chassis. It's a lot easier using math science to make more power on computer simulation. Making a better handling chassis is much more an intuitive art. Marquez's riding style became more dramatic over time because he was coping with Honda's tendency to focus on power over handling.

HRC wasn't consciously making the bike less stabile in the front end to accommodate MM's riding style. They were making it faster irregardless of the decreased front end feel to keep pace with the Ducatis that had more useable power in part because the Desmo made great horsepower, but more importantly, because it was manageable horsepower as a result of years of experience with versions of the Marelli Magneti electronics long before Honda were forced to do so.

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honevo said:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hCrJOavpoM-7TMJXUlHa_L3tYJRQkrS6 super pole

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