Qatar Rd 1 2017

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Very promising start to the season. Only surprise was how much Marquez struggled. Who was it predicted Iannone would crash early in the race trying to win before the race was half over?
 
Vinales comes through on new alien status. Was gutted for Zarco, looked like the usual Mishetin front end folded with barely any lean angle.

In any case it appears Smith and Pol were holding the Tech 3 Yams back. A few years ago they were in regular podium contention. Also looking back at that time, Dovi was performing well on the satellite Yam in the hopes of scoring a factory Yam gig and thereby he might have suddenly gone 'alien'. But unfortunately for him Carmelocalm had different ideas.

I realise Dovi didn't do much on the factory Honda yet the way he has worked probably harder than any rider on taming the Duc to transfer that consistency and work ethic to the Yam which he said suited better than any bike he'd ridden, you just never know wht might have been.

Whats this latest bopper thing on the 'settings'. Rossi has been building walls and protecting his settings for years. Factory teams protect their settings like they have found the secret path to the Holy Grail. Settings are more than spring damper rates. These days settings means strategy. It means the electronics package and weight distribution etc etc used to protect the tires and gain the fastest ultimate race time.

Vinales has been working hard on this all year in testing. He's been pushing the Yam to find the limit. Rossi hasn't been bothered even trying. Vinales has worked even harder on preventing excessive drop off on worn tires. The strategy employed was evident in the race where he was biding his time and not pushing too hard early. No surprise Rossi mirrored Vinales strategy he pretty much sat on him the whole race getting his usual qualy style tow.
 
moto vudu said:
Yep, Vinales and Rossi suck and it's all the M1. Like I said, the MV vs MM comparisons start THIS season and it's MV on top of the podium and MM not even on it.

Right, Rossi routinely copied Lorenzo's settings because their riding style and bike setups are practically identical. :rolleyes: It's called hating when you look for reasons to hate on someone's good performance.
Click to expand...

The comparisons with MM could perhaps begin when he wins 2 on the bounce which will be a step towards the 10 on the bounce MM won in his second premier class season. If the Honda is a dud bike for a 3rd season it does raise one issue which I think you have previously raised though, whether as lead rider he is asking for the wrong things from Honda.

Only 1 win for MM at Qatar, in his most dominant year, from his 5 starts in the premier class, which means 2 titles in years he was off the pace at Qatar. If he is again off the pace at Argentina then the Yamaha riders start to be favourites for the title though.

Good luck and all credit to Vinales, who sounds like he answered doubters including me regarding both his passing ability and ability to maintain his pace race long. I will have to watch the replay.

As for the hating, do you mean like the attitude of a significant proportion of Rossi fans towards most riders who have been competitive with him, and particularly those who have won world championships against him, which have formed the attitudes of those you dub haters on here?
 
michaelm said:
The comparisons with MM could perhaps begin when he wins 2 on the bounce which will be a step towards the 10 on the bounce MM won in his second premier class season. If the Honda is a dud bike for a 3rd season it does raise one issue which I think you have previously raised though, whether as lead rider he is asking for the wrong things from Honda.

Only 1 win for MM at Qatar, in his most dominant year, from his 5 starts in the premier class, which means 2 titles in years he was off the pace at Qatar. If he is again off the pace at Argentina then the Yamaha riders start to be favourites for the title though.

Good luck and all credit to Vinales, who sounds like he answered doubters including me regarding both his passing ability and ability to maintain his pace race long. I will have to watch the replay.

As for the hating, do you mean like the attitude of a significant proportion of Rossi fans towards most riders who have been competitive with him, and particularly those who have won world championships against him, which have formed the attitudes of those you dub haters on here?
Click to expand...

Interesting that some posters here would allow their attitudes to be influenced by Rossi boppers while simultaneously thinking they're better than the boppers. How would stooping to the level of individuals that only follow one rider and don't care about the sport, make you a better motorcycle racing fan than them?

Rossi fans that hate his rivals don't attempt to hide the fact that they hate his rivals.

Anyway, JKD correctly predicted that regardless of what happened with the racing... hatred toward Rossi would remain the main subject on this forum.
 
moto vudu said:
Interesting that some posters here would allow their attitudes to be influenced by Rossi boppers while simultaneously thinking they're better than the boppers. How would stooping to the level of individuals that only follow one rider and don't care about the sport, make you a better motorcycle racing fan than them?

Rossi fans that hate his rivals don't attempt to hide the fact that they hate his rivals.

Anyway, JKD correctly predicted that regardless of what happened with the racing... hatred toward Rossi would remain the main subject on this forum.
Click to expand...

The problem with your statement is that people on here who 'discredit' Rossi usually do it with pretty solid facts and logic. On MotoGPs FB page there was a man saying that the race director needs to be killed because QP was cancelled and Rossi was starting 13th. You're comparing apples and oranges because most here are able to build solid arguments for their statements.
 
p4p1 said:
The problem with your statement is that people on here who 'discredit' Rossi usually do it with pretty solid facts and logic. On MotoGPs FB page there was a man saying that the race director needs to be killed because QP was cancelled and Rossi was starting 13th. You're comparing apples and oranges because most here are able to build solid arguments for their statements.
Click to expand...

Why would that man in fb comments influence the way you view the sport or the riders? It's like you're ignoring tens of thousands of fans to single out the worse fans you can find.

Tire conspiracies and claiming Rossi snuck over to Vinales side of the garage to steal his settings is not "pretty solid facts" as you put it.
 
I just find it amusing that no one questions where Rossi continues pulling the time out of his .... It's just accepted that he can do it. Much to Moto Vudu's dismay, I'm on record as saying Rossi is talented and have always said his braking skill is among the best I've ever seen from any rider past or present. There was a question asked at the Wednesday press conference about him looking at Vinales' telemetry. Lorenzo is on record as saying that Rossi copied his settings plenty of times at Yamaha and was not amused by it. But I suppose the guy who would know best isn't worth listening to. It's a valid discussion point even if Vudu doesn't care for it. Has nothing to do with hating and more not buying the ........ being sold. I already said the M1 is the best bike on the grid, and Vinales' results have nothing to do with being an alien...he isn't one. But the bike complements him as well as it did Lorenzo for so many years. I don't think anyone would say Lorenzo is an alien now, so why Vinales? He's on the same bike that is the number one bike to have, but the hype has deluded people into not seeing the bike for what it really is - the most important determiner of success or lack thereof. But hey, people will believe what they want to believe. Still have to ride the bike to victory yes, but Vinales is not Stoner or Doohan or Rainey or Lawson or Hailwood even if hype tries to paint it that way. I enjoyed the race no matter what and feel bad for Dovizioso. Hope Argentina is a good race no matter who wins.
 
moto vudu said:
Interesting that some posters here would allow their attitudes to be influenced by Rossi boppers while simultaneously thinking they're better than the boppers. How would stooping to the level of individuals that only follow one rider and don't care about the sport, make you a better motorcycle racing fan than them?

Rossi fans that hate his rivals don't attempt to hide the fact that they hate his rivals.

Anyway, JKD correctly predicted that regardless of what happened with the racing... hatred toward Rossi would remain the main subject on this forum.
Click to expand...

I made no reference to Rossi, and in fact said he and Vinales could soon be co-favourites for the title.

So hating Rossi's rivals is fine because it is "open" hatred, even though it is so widespread and has so impacted the careers of more than a few worthy riders, to say nothing of the impact on the sport in general particularly since it has nothing to do with bike racing itself, while perhaps 10 posters on a single obscure forum having a different view of Rossi than his fans, for which they can provide arguments such as the part of my post you bolded which his fans of your ilk largely can't refute, is outrageous and the real problem?

I personally as I have said many times mainly had an issue with that particular element among Rossi fandom until the events of late season 2015, which demonstrated to me he was less of a bystander and more of an instigator as far as such fans were concerned. I also continued posting here with equal frequency and very happily stood my ground with no complaints about the numerical superiority of those opposing me when the recent rider I have most strongly supported was the subject of much more disdain than Rossi has ever received, here or anywhere.
 
birdman said:
Vinales comes through on new alien status. Was gutted for Zarco, looked like the usual Mishetin front end folded with barely any lean angle.

In any case it appears Smith and Pol were holding the Tech 3 Yams back. A few years ago they were in regular podium contention. Also looking back at that time, Dovi was performing well on the satellite Yam in the hopes of scoring a factory Yam gig and thereby he might have suddenly gone 'alien'. But unfortunately for him Carmelocalm had different ideas.

I realise Dovi didn't do much on the factory Honda yet the way he has worked probably harder than any rider on taming the Duc to transfer that consistency and work ethic to the Yam which he said suited better than any bike he'd ridden, you just never know wht might have been.

Whats this latest bopper thing on the 'settings'. Rossi has been building walls and protecting his settings for years. Factory teams protect their settings like they have found the secret path to the Holy Grail. Settings are more than spring damper rates. These days settings means strategy. It means the electronics package and weight distribution etc etc used to protect the tires and gain the fastest ultimate race time.

Vinales has been working hard on this all year in testing. He's been pushing the Yam to find the limit. Rossi hasn't been bothered even trying. Vinales has worked even harder on preventing excessive drop off on worn tires. The strategy employed was evident in the race where he was biding his time and not pushing too hard early. No surprise Rossi mirrored Vinales strategy he pretty much sat on him the whole race getting his usual qualy style tow.
Click to expand...

Good point about Tech 3. This has never been mentioned. They've dropped off the radar for a few years. Prior to that they were always somewhat competitive. I figured it was the bikes, now it definitely looks like it was the riders.
I liked seeing MV's maturity on the track and in parc ferme.
He was so nonchalant after the win.
Going into this I was pulling for DP to have a good year..... Those crazy thoughts you pick up in the offseason. I awoke from my fugue state as soon as I saw him sniffing the lead packs farts like he usually does. .... Pedrosa. Give that ride to Jack Miller next year.
As some point does Dorna realize they have a serious problem with Crutchlow. He's an absolute danger to himself and everyone around him. We joke about him, but how much longer before he ..... himself or someone else up.
 
moto vudu said:
Why would that man in fb comments influence the way you view the sport or the riders? It's like you're ignoring tens of thousands of fans to single out the worse fans you can find.

Tire conspiracies and claiming Rossi snuck over to Vinales side of the garage to steal his settings is not "pretty solid facts" as you put it.
Click to expand...

The problem is that there are tens of thousands of Rossi fans at the actual race tracks, and probably orders of magnitude more in the wider world, who have similar attitudes, spitting at riders at charity events, cheering crashes, booing riders on the podium/for winning races and championships etc.

You are doing the same thing yourself in regard to "tyre conspiracies", for which the notion that tyres are currently made to suit Rossi individually qualifies, imo as well as yours, given there is no evidence of same and it would be very difficult to accomplish anyway, but this was mainly promoted by one poster early last season, while most of the other tyre discussion on here concerning such matters as the inequity of SNS tyres, Rossi switching to Bridgestones, the control tyre being brought in to the detriment of Ducati and Suzuki, Honda's and Stoner's preferred tyre being removed in 2012, tyres suited to Lorenzo not being available etc, is in regard to matters of historical fact, and if race tyres are not appropriate subjects of discussion on a MotoGP forum perhaps we should stop discussing the bikes as well.

The other thing of course is that your boy himself alleged the biggest conspiracy in MotoGP history with no evidence at all, and many of his followers unquestioningly and happily accepted same.
 
Last edited:
JohnnyKnockdown said:
Good point about Tech 3. This has never been mentioned. They've dropped off the radar for a few years. Prior to that they were always somewhat competitive. I figured it was the bikes, now it definitely looks like it was the riders.
I liked seeing MV's maturity on the track and in parc ferme.
He was so nonchalant after the win.
Going into this I was pulling for DP to have a good year..... Those crazy thoughts you pick up in the offseason. I awoke from my fugue state as soon as I saw him sniffing the lead packs farts like he usually does. .... Pedrosa. Give that ride to Jack Miller next year.
As some point does Dorna realize they have a serious problem with Crutchlow. He's an absolute danger to himself and everyone around him. We joke about him, but how much longer before he ..... himself or someone else up.
Click to expand...
I agree about Tech 3 as well, but would blame Tech 3 themselves and Yamaha for the rider choices of more recent years. From what I gathered Espargaro was certainly far from being Dorna's preference.
 
I wonder if KTM is kicking themselves for going after the wrong Espargaro brother? Aleix is clearly the more talented one.
 
birdman said:
Vinales comes through on new alien status. Was gutted for Zarco, looked like the usual Mishetin front end folded with barely any lean angle.

In any case it appears Smith and Pol were holding the Tech 3 Yams back. A few years ago they were in regular podium contention. Also looking back at that time, Dovi was performing well on the satellite Yam in the hopes of scoring a factory Yam gig and thereby he might have suddenly gone 'alien'. But unfortunately for him Carmelocalm had different ideas.

I realise Dovi didn't do much on the factory Honda yet the way he has worked probably harder than any rider on taming the Duc to transfer that consistency and work ethic to the Yam which he said suited better than any bike he'd ridden, you just never know wht might have been.

Whats this latest bopper thing on the 'settings'. Rossi has been building walls and protecting his settings for years. Factory teams protect their settings like they have found the secret path to the Holy Grail. Settings are more than spring damper rates. These days settings means strategy. It means the electronics package and weight distribution etc etc used to protect the tires and gain the fastest ultimate race time.

Vinales has been working hard on this all year in testing. He's been pushing the Yam to find the limit. Rossi hasn't been bothered even trying. Vinales has worked even harder on preventing excessive drop off on worn tires. The strategy employed was evident in the race where he was biding his time and not pushing too hard early. No surprise Rossi mirrored Vinales strategy he pretty much sat on him the whole race getting his usual qualy style tow.
Click to expand...

michaelm said:
The comparisons with MM could perhaps begin when he wins 2 on the bounce which will be a step towards the 10 on the bounce MM won in his second premier class season. If the Honda is a dud bike for a 3rd season it does raise one issue which I think you have previously raised though, whether as lead rider he is asking for the wrong things from Honda.

Only 1 win for MM at Qatar, in his most dominant year, from his 5 starts in the premier class, which means 2 titles in years he was off the pace at Qatar. If he is again off the pace at Argentina then the Yamaha riders start to be favourites for the title though.

Good luck and all credit to Vinales, who sounds like he answered doubters including me regarding both his passing ability and ability to maintain his pace race long. I will have to watch the replay.

As for the hating, do you mean like the attitude of a significant proportion of Rossi fans towards most riders who have been competitive with him, and particularly those who have won world championships against him, which have formed the attitudes of those you dub haters on here?
Click to expand...

....... A - more alternative facts.

I tend to go with what has been reported in the racing press - as far back as when Spencer was with Honda - that being - Honda engineers - are just too arrogant - and always think they know better than the riders who they treat like performing monkeys.
 
moto vudu said:
Interesting that some posters here would allow their attitudes to be influenced by Rossi boppers while simultaneously thinking they're better than the boppers. How would stooping to the level of individuals that only follow one rider and don't care about the sport, make you a better motorcycle racing fan than them?

Rossi fans that hate his rivals don't attempt to hide the fact that they hate his rivals.

Anyway, JKD correctly predicted that regardless of what happened with the racing... hatred toward Rossi would remain the main subject on this forum.
Click to expand...

Could you put that in a sentence?
 
All those delays had me worried that we weren't going to get a race for a while there.

Congrats to Mav and Dovi, they put on a great show keeping things on edge to the last lap. It was a shame that Rossi and Marc seemed to be struggling with their setups and weren't in the mix at the final stages to make it a 4way battle.

Hard luck for Iannone, it was great to see another manufacturer at the pointy end while it lasted though. Zarco, wow, I never expected that. For someone that walked away with zero points I bet he still managed to salvage a good boost to his confidence. Speaking of zero points, as for Cal, I'm starting to wonder if his Honda contract has an (anti-bonus) penalty system for any unforced drops? Does anyone know what happened there?
 
Lorenzo disappointed, but trying to sound positive:

Triple MotoGP world champion Jorge Lorenzo finished his first race as a Ducati MotoGP rider in eleventh place at Qatar on Sunday.

The Spaniard was left twelfth on the grid by the cancellation of qualifying, while the return of rain just minutes before the planned start produced the kind of damp conditions Lorenzo often struggled with at Yamaha.

But when the red flights finally went out, after a 40-minute delay, Lorenzo made some much-needed gains in the opening turns... only to run wide and drop back to 16th.

The #99 recovered to ninth by the middle stages, but later struggled for grip with the soft rear tyre, losing places to rookies Alex Rins and Jonas Folger.


image: http://video.unrulymedia.com/native/opt-out-icon2.png


"Disappointing for sure," declared Lorenzo, speaking in the paddock on Sunday evening. "This was not the dream debut. Circumstances didn't help this time in Qatar, and it was not the ideal conditions to make a debut.

"The start was very good, I recovered three or four positions, I was behind Valentino. Probably without going wide in the fourth corner, I could stay with them until the middle of the race.

"For sure I was not able to keep the same pace all the race, because when the rear started to drop, I was not able to stay in the 1m 56. At the beginning I also struggled to stay in 1m 56, I was in '57, '58. but little-by-little with warmer tyres, I was going to this time.

"I did five or six laps very close, or sometimes faster than the top guys. But in a lot of moments in the race, I was too slow to finish closer. So circumstances didn't help, but also to be honest, I'm not yet ready to fight for something big.

"We have to learn a lot of things, and we take the positives: The start was good, we finished the race and we took five points when some others that were faster crashed. So no injuries, no crashes, this is the positive thing.

"Now we have one more test in Jerez, so for sure we are going to be better and try new things that probably give us more speed. And little by little, we understand the way to be fast in all the conditions."

While Lorenzo was struggling for grip, team-mate Andrea Dovizioso was locked in a thrilling victory duel with Maverick Vinales, only losing out by 0.461s.

"Yes, for sure [Dovi's result is encouraging]," Lorenzo said. "He was always a very clever guy. He stayed focused, didn't make mistakes in the difficult conditions. So he got the maximum from the bike all weekend, and surprised me that he fought for the victory with Vinales, who seems completely the favourite and without any opposition.

"Finally, circumstance probably didn't help Viñales, but did help Valentino and some other riders. And some others like me struggle a little bit more, and we finally arrive more behind than we expected. I'm used to fighting normally for the podium, for the victory. But sometimes it happens that it's not your day. You have to be positive and wait for the next time."

Lorenzo added that, aside from starting so far behind Dovi and the opening lap mistake, the Italian has more experience of how to manage tyre wear on the Ducati.

"Especially the big difference was with old tyres. When the rear tyre starts to drop, he is able to ride much better, probably using more the rear brake, or riding differently. With this bike, when I start losing the rear grip, I lose so much performance. So this is something we need to focus on in Jerez and in the next races."
Click to expand...
 
JPSLotus said:
I just find it amusing that no one questions where Rossi continues pulling the time out of his .... It's just accepted that he can do it. Much to Moto Vudu's dismay, I'm on record as saying Rossi is talented and have always said his braking skill is among the best I've ever seen from any rider past or present. There was a question asked at the Wednesday press conference about him looking at Vinales' telemetry. Lorenzo is on record as saying that Rossi copied his settings plenty of times at Yamaha and was not amused by it. But I suppose the guy who would know best isn't worth listening to. It's a valid discussion point even if Vudu doesn't care for it. Has nothing to do with hating and more not buying the ........ being sold. I already said the M1 is the best bike on the grid, and Vinales' results have nothing to do with being an alien...he isn't one. But the bike complements him as well as it did Lorenzo for so many years. I don't think anyone would say Lorenzo is an alien now, so why Vinales? He's on the same bike that is the number one bike to have, but the hype has deluded people into not seeing the bike for what it really is - the most important determiner of success or lack thereof. But hey, people will believe what they want to believe. Still have to ride the bike to victory yes, but Vinales is not Stoner or Doohan or Rainey or Lawson or Hailwood even if hype tries to paint it that way. I enjoyed the race no matter what and feel bad for Dovizioso. Hope Argentina is a good race no matter who wins.
Click to expand...

With all due respect - there are a lot of things here that I agree with. That said - Colin Edwards never accomplished .... on the factory Yamaha and neither much did Spies (albeit his crew were - or so it appears way out of their depth) so Lorenzo who has had multiple championships while competing against Rossi (on "His" bike") as well as Stoner and Marquez - would have to be included in the "aliens" club; otherwise - according to some - nobody in the last ten years was an alien - except for Stoner. Yes - we all agree that the M1 is a great bike. That said, by implying it's all down to the bike - we risk going into the it's-all-the-bike mindset that fueled so much of the wrong-headed critiques of Stoner. I don't fault Lorenzo for not being as brilliant as Stoner; never thought he was. He was just stupid (given the wealth he's accrued over the years) for thinking with his wallet. As others have said - if he had to leave Yamaha - and still see the podium - he should have gone to Suzuki.

Vinales isn't Stoner, Doohan, Rainey et al.. - but then again - neither were they
- after only one race in the premiere class. I'm not saying he's the chosen one
- but the same kind of doubt I hear echoed repeatedly about Vinales - sounds
very much like what people were expressing about Marquez when he was riding
Moto 2. Not trying to be all kumbaya - just willing to keep an open mind.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

J
2025 MotoGP Schedule
Replies
4
Views
655
PRS717
P
#22
Top 10 MotoGP rider moves of the MotoGP era.
2
Replies
23
Views
1K
#22
#22
#22
David Emmet: A peek into the soul of Marc Marquez
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
#22
#22
M
New Direction for World Superbike?
Replies
3
Views
912
JFM01
J
evo9
2022 Sepang MotoGP Test
2
Replies
26
Views
5K
#22
#22

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top