Qatar Race - Spoiler

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Mar 10 2008, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Actually,there are quite a few sports where rookies not only come in and compete,but take charge.NFL,rookie Adrian Peterson leads the NFL in rushing,the single most prestigious stat in the game.NBA Rookies leading their teams in scoring,rebounding etc and most of these kids are 19-20 year olds,NHL has along history of Rookies doing well.The one sport where a rookie hardly ever excels is motorsports,except for maybe Lewis in F1 last year.
Actually LT led the league in rushing
I don't doubt that rookies can be competitive but if one takes the championship this year in MOTOGP it will be amazing.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skid @ Mar 11 2008, 05:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>me too! toseland rode a great race, the fact that it was his debut was even more impressive. the way he seemed to gather himself together and get into a good pace after slowing mid race just shows how much of a battler the guy is. only the best riders seem to be able to come into motogp as rookies and do that first out. i've slagged him off on this forum before but i take it all back. lets hope michelin bring it.

I hope he does well, but its the first race. I can't wait for Jerez where engine power down the straight is less important. If all is true and he continues on form he should be battling for the lead.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 11 2008, 03:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Because if they'd stuck with 990's the bikes wouldn't improve at all, right?
<


The 800s have already eclipsed the 990s by a wide margin at most tracks because they carry more speed coming out of the final bend.

Makoto Tamada hit 340 down the straight at Mugello. Mugello was the only problem track because it required high speed maneuvering and everyone knew that speeds there would continue to increase.

So basically they changed the rules to keep one historic circuit in play. Classic Dorna.

Modify every other circuit on the calendar to make things safer, then change the bikes to keep the Italians happy. Too bad it hasn't helped Rossi any.
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l13eaw @ Mar 11 2008, 06:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lightening McQueen.......Cars Disney DVD lol

Oh and Lewis Hamilton...........F1?

Scott Radley 125 ccs

Pedrosa was competitive on the 990s and Stoner was when he wasn't crashing.

Rossi was competitive on his first season

Do I need to go on or have I made my point?

XX Liz


Pedro was fast but crashed a lot.
Rossi crashed a lot also but figured it out towards the end of the season.
Adrian Peterson was phenomenal but so was his backup when he got hurt.

These rookies are excelling immediatelly without the crashing. Not just one, but all of them.
Every sport has it's anomalies but this many rookies being competitive at once points toward the bike more than the rider.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnyKnockdown @ Mar 11 2008, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pedro was fast but crashed a lot.
Rossi crashed a lot also but figured it out towards the end of the season.
Adrian Peterson was phenomenal but so was his backup when he got hurt.

These rookies are excelling immediatelly without the crashing. Not just one, but all of them.
Every sport has it's anomalies but this many rookies being competitive at once points toward the bike more than the rider.
It's one race! That's far to early to say that they're "excelling without crashing".

Also, what of deAngelis?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Mar 11 2008, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's one race! That's far to early to say that they're "excelling without crashing".

Also, what of deAngelis?


We could go back and forth about this all day but if you guys really think what
appears to be happening is normal than you clearly havn't been watching racing very long.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Mar 11 2008, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's one race! That's far to early to say that they're "excelling without crashing".

Also, what of deAngelis?

Who, the only rookie on Bridgestones at Qatar 2008?
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Mar 11 2008, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Actually LT led the league in rushing
I don't doubt that rookies can be competitive but if one takes the championship this year in MOTOGP it will be amazing.




I hope he does well, but its the first race. I can't wait for Jerez where engine power down the straight is less important. If all is true and he continues on form he should be battling for the lead.
You are correct,Peterson was the NFC leading rusher and broke the all time single game record.
 
Well I haven’t had the stomach to comment on the post race thread because I was rather disappointed with Hayden’s performance. A few days have passed now, so I can muster the will to post my thoughts.

First of all, congrats to Stoner. He is the real deal. I can’t imagine what possibly could be said to detract from his performance. One only needs to look at his teammate, who surely is on the same 08 bike with ALL the factory support due to him. Notwithstanding, I think the following is the real story of this round: I was more impressed by Stoner’s patience and maturity rather than the win. He has become increasingly forbearing and sensible indicated by his management of the race, where as before he was hasty and impatient about having to lead in the first turn (i.e. Laguna 07). I think there is a frightening message here for the competitors--he is becoming stronger, faster, and more calculating. He’s becoming the machines from the movie Terminator—learning, adapting, and becoming more efficient by the moment. Scary, I know.

Lorenzo is very impressive (disclaimer: though I personally don’t like him as an individual). Obviously his pole position was backed up with an outstanding race performance. He was un-phased by Toeslands pass, and had no problem taking the position away from his teammate Rossi and fellow shitbird compatriot Padrosa. The Factory Yamahas will be the closest challenge to Stoner.

Pedrosa had a tremendous start and a good podium finish (disclaimer: he is still a shitbird anyway). I think he will be a regular on the podium, however, I think his number next year will be 3 or 4. I’m thinking his thoughts were, “...., Stoner now Lorenzo, and I still have to deal with Rossi?—damn!”

Dovizioso was also impressive, and that pass he made on Rossi is an indication that he intends to make an impact. Well he just did. Don’t know much about him, but I’m sure we will know a lot by the end of the season.

Rossi finished a respectable
5th place. I still think he will be a very close runner up this year (if not the champ). The tires blame-game should be dead now, however, it seems a new subtle form of bringing this up has crept into the dialog, “it was the set-up” that made the “tires” fall off. (Where is Babel, surely he can make a case it was a “tire issue” of some sort). But here is what I think. First of all, this is a unique track with its long flowing lines and lack of elevation, and that long straight will eventually take its toll. Lacking a true teammate to bounce data off certainly is not a good thing (though I’m not saying it’s a disadvantage). Rossi’s learning curve is extraordinary and he did very well on a new brand of tire (its not like he didn’t lead for a while). So I don’t think it had anything to do with tire performance, but rather how he managed the tire (which is a rider thing not a tire thing). However, I think this is a positive sign for him (again learning curve) because the next round should favor him. I’m predicting a win next round (that is, if Hayden doesn’t—save your comments).

James Toesland for me was the real hero of lead pack. Sure there were three rookies in this pack, but only one of them was a true “rookie” to the GP series. So I was much more impressed by his performance. The pass that he put on Lorenzo was a thing of beauty. It was clean enough yet he felt compelled to apologize—now that’s class. If anybody can claim being underpowered from the lead pack, its Toesland. He had to endure the frustration of making up all the time in the corners (where the real racing takes place) only to be blown away in that monster straight. I’m worried that the pass he made on Lorenzo stifled his enthusiasm to make a similar pass on Rossi. No doubt in my mind, he could have, and should have, taken the position from Valentino. But of course cooler heads prevailed. This can only mean that the factory will do something NOT to be embarrassed by the satellite teams (yeah, I said it, watch out how the factory reacts the rest of the season, remember boys and girls, these factories supply the customers, and Ducati last year didn’t take so kindly to Barros passing a factory bike in Mugello last year). Which leads me to my next thought…

Colin Edwards stayed at the tail end of the lead pack for the greater part of the race, which is uncharacteristic of his time as Rossi’s teammate. For me, there is something there to be uncovered. Edwards has endured a thrashing here by many as a sub-par rider, but never taking into account that he was the whipping boy for his teammate (despite anybody wanting not to believe it, I believe this was his reality). Now that he is on a satellite team, he is free from that grip, and frankly it showed in his performance. He managed to be a front row qualifier and backed it up with a respectable race performance. I think the calls for him going to the AMA are premature.


(INTERMISSION)



I’m gonna skip the rest of the finishers but mention a few, namely Capirossi and Hopkins, Melandri, and of course Hayden.

Capirossi’s bike and leathers look great. But the development of the Suzuki seems to have peaked last year. (I know it’s early, so lets hope I’m wrong).

Hopkins left a good team for a promise. It may seem like this was a mistake, but judging from the piss poor performance of the Suzukis, it wasn’t such a bad idea. However, he did have a poor showing on the bike that has promised him a great development effort (backed up by a great paycheck), but really lets not forget the guy’s balls are injured at the moment (growing injury). How well would you have done if you were riding around feeling like somebody had kicked you in the balls? Yeah, outch! So for now, I’ll wait and pass judgment next round.

Melandri is getting all the support he needs on a fully 08 spec bike; yet sill struggling to get to grips with the Ducati. I guess his remote control wasn’t working so well. Having said that, I don’t doubt he will improve. Which of course leads me to the following thought…

Hayden. Oh, Lord! First of all, I have to say that he has NOT performed well as a rider. He lacks adaptation to this increasingly narrow scope of bike type that is the 800s. So the blame must be squarely placed on him first. If in fact there are other riders out there on similar or identical bikes, then he must, without reservation beat them. Now then the question becomes, are other Honda riders on the same bike, yes and no? Hayden himself accepted responsibility and admitted he got the set-up wrong. So being that its rider’s responsibility, then we can say he screwed up. (He has accept as much too). It seems from the reports, that at least one of the Satellite Hondas was similar to his 07 spec bike. So if this is true, I can’t help but say Hayden’s performance has much to be desired. (Hard words to say from a mindless-cheerleading diehard fan, and obviously humble pie leaves a lump in my throat).

So then, having put the reproach on Hayden, the rider, it seems fair to also take a look at what, if any, factors have scaffold his poor performance. It seems bits and pieces of information have begun to surface that he was riding a previous generation bike, shipped in last minute, and perhaps may not have had “access” to the 08 spec bike. These report are just now surfacing, and I submit that it would be difficult to find a quote where Hayden himself admitting or casting any doubt on HRC and their level of commitment to his effort. But lets for a moment say for the sake of NOT sounding like a conspiracy theorist, that the report is ........ and that he really did have “access” to the 08 bike. Fine. Now why would a rider face the prospect of having to “pick” between a 07 spec vs. 08 spec bike? Are they that close in performance that a factory rider must choose between what is deemed the newest generation and a previous generation bike? (Consider for a moment if you are a fan of Rossi or Casey or Melandri if they would be asked to “pick” between the 07 vs. 08 spec bikes a day or two before the start of the season. What would be your reaction?) I read a member saying, yeah well that’s because Hayden did so poorly last year. Yes this is true, so then the question becomes, why? That is, why did he do so poorly last year and is there any culpability in the machine he rode? (He asked to go back to the 07 spec after PI, the race where he showed most promise, that is until the engine took a dump, but Honda were not willing to take that step at the moment so they waited until right before the season opener). Surely the bike he started off on and ended with in 07 were different, right? Well if this last minute debacle is any indication as to the level of factory support behind him, then really, a cast of doubt upon factory itself is certainly in order. (Of course, that may be because I’m a “bias” fan, but I ask you, a non-Hayden fan, do I have a point, or I’m I simply drowning in grief?)

Last thoughts: Rookies were amazing. The tire war is alive, for now.
 
I can't answer your question Junky because I am a Hayden fan with a biased opinion. But I heard somewhere through the grapevine that you went to the Rossi corner. Is this true or conspiracy?

Edit: If you can, watch some 250cc races. Dovi reminds me a little of Hayden. He just shuts up and does his job, never gives up, and has one of the biggest hearts in MOTOGP. He is always underpowered to Lorenzo and somehow is always close. A true talent, he is my next favorite rider next to Hayden
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 11 2008, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Colin Edwards stayed at the tail end of the lead pack for the greater part of the race, which is uncharacteristic of his time as Rossi’s teammate. For me, there is something there to be uncovered.
hope your not implying someone got short changed the past couple of year to aid a certain someone else ?
<


roll on jerez
<
 
There are several threads on the Honda Hayden position, but I will put my thoughts here.

Honda had a completly new bike for 08 with a pneumatic valve spring engine.
After testing for some time they were not happy with the engine performance and eventuall y decided that it was not going to be ready for the 08 season. They decided to cut their losses and chucked it and installed the 07 engine in the 08 frame.
The 08 frame was designed for the 08 engine, and putting the 07 engine in did not make for a happy marriage.
After using up all the testing time and still finding they were not up to speed, Honda scratched up some 07 bikes and sent them to Losail. It is my understanding that they also had a new frame.
Nicky elected to go with the 07 bike, and Pedders thought he would try the new frame.
So then, the Repsol team are trying to get 2 different bikes up to speed, and they didn't look too flash during practice. The satellite teams were faster than either of their riders throughout practice and qualifying.
Hayden qualified faster than Pedders, but didn't have the race pace of the other Hondas, but he may have thought that they still had the warm up to see if they could get it right.
They didn't.
And Pedders, with the new frame, kept on improving.

Hayden will have the new frame for Jerez.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Mar 11 2008, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I can't answer your question Junky because I am a Hayden fan with a biased opinion. But I heard somewhere through the grapevine that you went to the Rossi corner. Is this true or conspiracy?

Perhaps this from my previous post may shed some light on your question...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 11 2008, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>(Hard words to say from a mindless-cheerleading diehard fan, and obviously humble pie leaves a lump in my throat).

I’m a “bias” fan, but I ask you, a non-Hayden fan, do I have a point, or I’m I simply drowning in grief?)

Yes, I am a Hayden fan buddy.







Don't be a .... block man.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 10 2008, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>there already is compared to say 2005. dont you worry tho mate, the hard core like me pete baldy and our new follower jumkie aint going know where.
<
.


pete, i dont think lorenzo will take the title this year but i have a feeling he will the following. just that hungry look .personally i hope dovi whips his ...

Don't be an ........ I was actually being serious. I guess I just read Rog's post wrong from THIS thread. I'm glad your still with me man.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Mar 11 2008, 07:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't be an ........ I was actually being serious. I guess I just read Rog's post wrong from THIS thread. I'm glad your still with me man.
Ah my friend, I think your're not in on the inside joke. I'll PM you to let you in on it.
 

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top