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I think it's clear that the skills needed to be a competitive Moto GP rider have changed.
The sport has evolved to where the guys that could handle brute power and less TC are being
pushed out. What sport in the world can rookies be competitive in their first outing.
None that I can think of.
The 990 guys can't seem to compete. Nicky, Rossi, Melandri, Capirossi all top guys 3 years ago now finish outside the top 5 consistently. Even Pedrosa and Stoner were fast at times on the 990 but were unable to keep the bike on 2 wheels consistently. I think that power was too much for them.
I think Stoners sudden rise to fortune can be attributed to more than just a change of manufacturers.
Lorenzo said his arms were quite tired and pumped towards the end of the race. Can you imagine if he was on a 500 or 990. He never could have held that pace for so long.
Is this good for the sport? Most of you will say yes because the racing will be better but outside of Europe it will lose a lot of it's fan base. For every 15 Spanish and Italian riders coming up Australia
England and America will have 1 rider if that who has these type of skills.
I cannot think of a worse time for America to be rewarded a 2nd GP race.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Mar 10 2008, 11:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner isn't going to run away with the championship this year. He may very well win it but he's going to be pushed all the way.
The hondas and yamahas are definately quicker and there's some real talent out there now - Dovi, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Toseland and Vale to name a few.
Once Pedrosa gets fully fit and Vale works out tyre issues I reckon it's going to be a hell of a season. The rookies (especially Jorge and Dovi) are very quick and talented and keen to make their mark.
Stoner may still win the championship but this year he's going to have to work seriously hard for it. It's going to be a cracker!!!
im not so sure. the tv in the uk showed mainly the battle between rossi, dovi and jt. great tv and we all loved it. it only showed casey and horhay briefly now and again unlike last year when they seem to follow casey for 90% of the race. this hid the fact that just like last year casey was a country mile ahead. he was even over 5 seconds ahead of horhey. im not that bothered if casey wins it so much as im bothered if i get to see close racing, even if it is mid pack.

[quote name='SackWack' date='Mar 10 2008, 11:37 PM' post='116470']
Hmmm, Im wondering if Stoner was actuallly trying to make it look like he could come up through the field like Rossi does. Last year everyone of his starts was balls to the wall. He said that he wanted things to be worked out in front because everyone was going crazy. I think he is trying to make it look like he can overtake and come from behind, which he did but it wasn't as spectacular and lacked the heroics of a Rossi.

The pass Stoner put on Pedrosa was more impressive than anything Rossi did all race long, and Dovizioso did Rossi in pretty easily as well. Looks like a new generation is in town.

Well at least rossi will win mugello

But seriously, everyone is right when they say the talent in motogp is the best it's ever been. Rossi is no longer miles above everyone else like he has been his whole career.

This season is where he'll either put into stone (no pun intended) that he really is the folklore legend of motorcycle racing we believe him to be, or just another great racer like wayne, kevin, mick, etc etc. For his sake and the sake of the sport, I hope he is that legend.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Mar 10 2008, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hmmm, Im wondering if Stoner was actuallly trying to make it look like he could come up through the field like Rossi does. Last year everyone of his starts was balls to the wall. He said that he wanted things to be worked out in front because everyone was going crazy. I think he is trying to make it look like he can overtake and come from behind, which he did but it wasn't as spectacular and lacked the heroics of a Rossi.

No Stoner seems to be able to read his tyres well .... he was slipping and squirming everywhere until he warmed them up I think ... then he just plain did what he does best ..... won

I think he chooses a pretty hard compond rear usually thats why we often see he gets the best time at the end of the race. Rossi could have done well to follow suit ...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Mar 10 2008, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner isn't going to run away with the championship this year. He may very well win it but he's going to be pushed all the way.
The hondas and yamahas are definately quicker and there's some real talent out there now - Dovi, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Toseland and Vale to name a few.
Once Pedrosa gets fully fit and Vale works out tyre issues I reckon it's going to be a hell of a season. The rookies (especially Jorge and Dovi) are very quick and talented and keen to make their mark.
Stoner may still win the championship but this year he's going to have to work seriously hard for it. It's going to be a cracker!!!

I don't know about you but 5 seconds looks like a country mile in MOTOGP. He ran away with this one easily. If the bikes are faster and there is more talent what the .... happened to the rest of the field in Qatar and what makes you think they are going to work it out. I had the same belief all year long last year and noting changed, I tell you I'm beat like a red headed step child, I give.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnyKnockdown @ Mar 10 2008, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think it's clear that the skills needed to be a competitive Moto GP rider have changed.
The sport has evolved to where the guys that could handle brute power and less TC are being
pushed out. What sport in the world can rookies be competitive in their first outing.
None that I can think of.
The 990 guys can't seem to compete. Nicky, Rossi, Melandri, Capirossi all top guys 3 years ago now finish outside the top 5 consistently. Even Pedrosa and Stoner were fast at times on the 990 but were unable to keep the bike on 2 wheels consistently. I think that power was too much for them.
I think Stoners sudden rise to fortune can be attributed to more than just a change of manufacturers.
Lorenzo said his arms were quite tired and pumped towards the end of the race. Can you imagine if he was on a 500 or 990. He never could have held that pace for so long.
Is this good for the sport? Most of you will say yes because the racing will be better but outside of Europe it will lose a lot of it's fan base. For every 15 Spanish and Italian riders coming up Australia
England and America will have 1 rider if that who has these type of skills.
I cannot think of a worse time for America to be rewarded a 2nd GP race.

I asked the same question in the pre-season. That why I thought that the rookies would finish mid-pack. Yeah,rookies can be over talented and look like prodigies coming out of a ....... genetically engineered factory and still struggle for one or two season. It happens in all of professional sports. MOTOGP is jsut really freaking weird right now. But hey there is always a first for everything. GO ROOKIES

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnyKnockdown @ Mar 10 2008, 07:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think it's clear that the skills needed to be a competitive Moto GP rider have changed.
The sport has evolved to where the guys that could handle brute power and less TC are being
pushed out. What sport in the world can rookies be competitive in their first outing.
None that I can think of.
The 990 guys can't seem to compete. Nicky, Rossi, Melandri, Capirossi all top guys 3 years ago now finish outside the top 5 consistently. Even Pedrosa and Stoner were fast at times on the 990 but were unable to keep the bike on 2 wheels consistently. I think that power was too much for them.
I think Stoners sudden rise to fortune can be attributed to more than just a change of manufacturers.
Lorenzo said his arms were quite tired and pumped towards the end of the race. Can you imagine if he was on a 500 or 990. He never could have held that pace for so long.
Is this good for the sport? Most of you will say yes because the racing will be better but outside of Europe it will lose a lot of it's fan base. For every 15 Spanish and Italian riders coming up Australia
England and America will have 1 rider if that who has these type of skills.
I cannot think of a worse time for America to be rewarded a 2nd GP race.
Actually,there are quite a few sports where rookies not only come in and compete,but take charge.NFL,rookie Adrian Peterson leads the NFL in rushing,the single most prestigious stat in the game.NBA Rookies leading their teams in scoring,rebounding etc and most of these kids are 19-20 year olds,NHL has along history of Rookies doing well.The one sport where a rookie hardly ever excels is motorsports,except for maybe Lewis in F1 last year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnyKnockdown @ Mar 11 2008, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nicky, Rossi, Melandri, Capirossi all top guys 3 years ago now finish outside the top 5 consistently.


Well 3 years is a long time in motogp ....... I think you have summmed it up though ..... that was 3 years ago!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 10 2008, 10:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm so glad they made the 800s to keep the speeds down.

Because if they'd stuck with 990's the bikes wouldn't improve at all, right?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnyKnockdown @ Mar 11 2008, 12:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think it's clear that the skills needed to be a competitive Moto GP rider have changed.
The sport has evolved to where the guys that could handle brute power and less TC are being
pushed out. What sport in the world can rookies be competitive in their first outing.
None that I can think of.
The 990 guys can't seem to compete. Nicky, Rossi, Melandri, Capirossi all top guys 3 years ago now finish outside the top 5 consistently. Even Pedrosa and Stoner were fast at times on the 990 but were unable to keep the bike on 2 wheels consistently. I think that power was too much for them.
I think Stoners sudden rise to fortune can be attributed to more than just a change of manufacturers.
Lorenzo said his arms were quite tired and pumped towards the end of the race. Can you imagine if he was on a 500 or 990. He never could have held that pace for so long.
Is this good for the sport? Most of you will say yes because the racing will be better but outside of Europe it will lose a lot of it's fan base. For every 15 Spanish and Italian riders coming up Australia
England and America will have 1 rider if that who has these type of skills.
I cannot think of a worse time for America to be rewarded a 2nd GP race.

I think this assesment is a bit illogical. Firstly i think the fact that the best riders from the past are no longer the best is not significantly affected by the capacity change, its always been like that. Secondly, why would riding a lighter and less powerful 500 pump riders arms more than an 800, i don't see that it would. The 990's were obviously more physically challanging, but thats one of the reasons they were considered to be too dangerous. As for the type of rider who is doing well in motogp at the moment, there are still 3 representatives from the USA, and the BRitish debutant is doing well. I would suggest that there are more riders from Italy and Spain coming through because they are breading more riders in their superior training system.

Just had a funny thought .... after seeing some rampant fans on crash saying the Stoner only passes people on the long straight at Qatar ........ I think every overtaking manouvre he did was at a corner??? Was that right?

And if so ..... what gets me is ...... I get the feeling , since he pulled away easily toward the end, could he have overtaken more on that straight but was he holding back? So he could make it look better by passing them in the corners?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnyKnockdown @ Mar 11 2008, 12:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What sport in the world can rookies be competitive in their first outing.
None that I can think of.

Lightening McQueen.......Cars Disney DVD lol

Oh and Lewis Hamilton...........F1?

Scott Radley 125 ccs

Pedrosa was competitive on the 990s and Stoner was when he wasn't crashing.

Rossi was competitive on his first season

Do I need to go on or have I made my point?

XX Liz

i've been trying to find an interview with nicky as to why he decided to ride the '07 bike, i've heard what commentators and jurnos said about it but i'd like to hear what he said about the switch

i'm sure ye guys have talked about this but there is a bunch of thread on the race and i did'nt want to start a new one

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Mar 10 2008, 07:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>is there anywhere i can go to fiind out what tyres they all used ??? like soft/medium/hard ??

rossi seemed to have grip straight away but then started to fade his bike was moving around alot??
i noticed stoner hang back until he got some heat in the tyres before going for it, i think he may have been using a harder compound???
im thinking rossi didnt pick a hard enough tyre because he had plenty of grip then started slipping.

not a bad race tho congrats to stoner and lorenzo

Not sure if anyone has posted a reply, but here is the tyre choices for the top 6;

All had medium rears
Lorenzo and Toseland had hard fronts
Dovi had a soft front (interesting)
Stoner, Rossi and Pedrosa had medium fronts

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 11 2008, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just had a funny thought .... after seeing some rampant fans on crash saying the Stoner only passes people on the long straight at Qatar ........ I think every overtaking manouvre he did was at a corner??? Was that right?

And if so ..... what gets me is ...... I get the feeling , since he pulled away easily toward the end, could he have overtaken more on that straight but was he holding back? So he could make it look better by passing them in the corners?
There has been some speculation the ducati had the power turned down on the engine mapping in the early part of the race (perhaps because they knew they needed to warm the tyres up?). Stoner's ducati apparently ran out of fuel like pedrosa's honda in the warm down lap, although I didn't see it on the TV coverage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnnyKnockdown @ Mar 11 2008, 10:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Stoners sudden rise to fortune can be attributed to more than just a change of manufacturers.

You are absolutely right but for all the wrong reasons!

Stoner would have married a Bridgestone front tyre had he not foolishly married Adrianna a few months earlier!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (krusty @ Mar 11 2008, 10:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are absolutely right but for all the wrong reasons!

Stoner would have married a Bridgestone front tyre had he not foolishly married Adrianna a few months earlier!
but 'krusty' shes a good sort at least...but what ever else these guys deserve??? well see whn CS is on the down and out well see if Adrianna sticks by him??? Only time WILL TELL!!!??? or will IT???

I can't wait for the Tech3s to get the 2008 engine!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mjpartyboy @ Mar 11 2008, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I can't wait for the Tech3s to get the 2008 engine!me too! toseland rode a great race, the fact that it was his debut was even more impressive. the way he seemed to gather himself together and get into a good pace after slowing mid race just shows how much of a battler the guy is. only the best riders seem to be able to come into motogp as rookies and do that first out. i've slagged him off on this forum before but i take it all back. lets hope michelin bring it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (l13eaw @ Mar 11 2008, 04:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lightening McQueen.......Cars Disney DVD lol

Oh and Lewis Hamilton...........F1?

Scott Radley 125 ccs

Pedrosa was competitive on the 990s and Stoner was when he wasn't crashing.

Rossi was competitive on his first season

Do I need to go on or have I made my point?

XX Liz
May as well add Biaggi starting from pole and winning his first race on a 500.