Help Support MotoGP Forum:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malcy @ Mar 11 2007, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I feel now that MotoGP is going to be about who has the fastest bike, not who has the best bike control. It didn't matter if Rossi could pass Stoner because he could alway blast past on the finish line and win. I'd hate to think that it's going to end up like Formula 1!!!!
This is the same as 2002, when a new era begins the engineering battle is huge. Honda had a clear advantage in almost all areas in 2002, it happens, just wait for things to settle down a bit and it will be as competative as before, perhaps more so.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malcy @ Mar 11 2007, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Will we ever see anymore of the slides into and out of bends??? And the noise...it's like listening to 2 strokes.
The slides of the 990's were kinda kool but i was never a huge fan of that. I much prefered the small movements and twitches of the 500's beneath a rider, they looked small but they signified a loss of momentum and the threat of a crash. This has now returned, although on a smaller level.
And i prefer the sound too, they scream and rev higher. The 990's were a bit too droney for me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malcy @ Mar 11 2007, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As for Hayden, I have never rated him, he can only win at Laguna where he rode all the time in AMA. I must admit he's the champion of excuses, but he's not in the top class of MotoGP. I think he should admit that his championship win was due to the misfortunes of someone else.
Champion of excuses??? That seems far from the truth. He always takes responsibility for his performances, and often makes a point of his circumstances not being an excuse.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 11 2007, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, I watched again... yeap, you are right. I was just looking at the 'Lap Chart' to figure it out before, Checa must have overtaken a bit before he fell... So it makes them two riders, sorry again!
Thats what i figured had happend, no worries. Checas lowside could easily have been a result of a front end lacking feel couldnt it..........
Who knows, i am just glad Nicky has the brains to keep it on the track when hes struggling
This is the same as 2002, when a new era begins the engineering battle is huge. Honda had a clear advantage in almost all areas in 2002, it happens, just wait for things to settle down a bit and it will be as competative as before, perhaps more so.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malcy @ Mar 11 2007, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Will we ever see anymore of the slides into and out of bends??? And the noise...it's like listening to 2 strokes.
The slides of the 990's were kinda kool but i was never a huge fan of that. I much prefered the small movements and twitches of the 500's beneath a rider, they looked small but they signified a loss of momentum and the threat of a crash. This has now returned, although on a smaller level.
And i prefer the sound too, they scream and rev higher. The 990's were a bit too droney for me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malcy @ Mar 11 2007, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As for Hayden, I have never rated him, he can only win at Laguna where he rode all the time in AMA. I must admit he's the champion of excuses, but he's not in the top class of MotoGP. I think he should admit that his championship win was due to the misfortunes of someone else.
Champion of excuses??? That seems far from the truth. He always takes responsibility for his performances, and often makes a point of his circumstances not being an excuse.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 11 2007, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, I watched again... yeap, you are right. I was just looking at the 'Lap Chart' to figure it out before, Checa must have overtaken a bit before he fell... So it makes them two riders, sorry again!
Thats what i figured had happend, no worries. Checas lowside could easily have been a result of a front end lacking feel couldnt it..........
Who knows, i am just glad Nicky has the brains to keep it on the track when hes struggling
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Mar 11 2007, 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>^^ I understand what you mean. Dani is on the same bike and he finished in third place
. I am just quoting what Hayden has stated as his reason for not being in the mix of things during the race. Does this mean that Dani is better suited to riding the new 800cc machine? Hard to say time will tell, hopefully for Hayden he just had a bad race.
Yes I know you were quoting. Thing is I seem to remember other SBK guys complaining about the same problem where others in the team cope with it.
On the other hand I'm very careful to talk about better suited or not. I don't see why ther are problems going from 2-stroke small bore to 4-stroke big bore or the other way around, at least if we keep weight out of the equation. Tires, engine, chassi are all factors that you learn and understand and then make the best out up the package. Big steps take some time to learn (and 990 to 800 is not one of those) but I can't find a better description for those not adapting than a lesser rider.
This is not something a try to dump on Hayden, but in I find the discussion of "better suited" as totally out of proportions. Both in the 990 vs 800 and in GP - SBK, 800 - 250 and so on. The best riders adapt.
That said, it's of course possible to design a bike for a spesiffic human size and if that is what honda did it's bad. It should be easy enough to create at least to different wrappings out of one bike. One XXS an one L
Yes I know you were quoting. Thing is I seem to remember other SBK guys complaining about the same problem where others in the team cope with it.
On the other hand I'm very careful to talk about better suited or not. I don't see why ther are problems going from 2-stroke small bore to 4-stroke big bore or the other way around, at least if we keep weight out of the equation. Tires, engine, chassi are all factors that you learn and understand and then make the best out up the package. Big steps take some time to learn (and 990 to 800 is not one of those) but I can't find a better description for those not adapting than a lesser rider.
This is not something a try to dump on Hayden, but in I find the discussion of "better suited" as totally out of proportions. Both in the 990 vs 800 and in GP - SBK, 800 - 250 and so on. The best riders adapt.
That said, it's of course possible to design a bike for a spesiffic human size and if that is what honda did it's bad. It should be easy enough to create at least to different wrappings out of one bike. One XXS an one L
Traverser
Save Jabesus
- Joined
- May 27, 2006
- Messages
- 4,024
- Location
- Mts-7
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (V8GUZZI @ Mar 10 2007, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If I am Honda I would be worried about Pedrosa though, as strange as that sounds. Vale schooled him so many times today going into the first turn doing exactly what was going to be Dani's strong suit, cornering. There was much talk last year and some from Rossi himself about DP's odd cornering lines and braking points and I thought moving to the 800's would take care of that but it didn't seem to. DP also didn't seem to interested in going in close and mixing it up which Vale seems fully aware of.
You beat me to it. I agree with you 100%. Rossi has won the mind games with #26 and it showed the first race.
As for the race, I was surprised no one broke down.. I can't remember if it was the Ducatis or yamahas that hit 20,000rpm's!!!!!!! I never cared for Hopper, but after his performance, that guy ROCKS.
My friend came to the conclusion (I agree) that Rossi's problem was his gearing. When they showed the throttle bars, Rossi was on the gas around most of the corners. The tighter the corner, the stronger Rossi was. He needed taller gearing
Stoner!!!
You beat me to it. I agree with you 100%. Rossi has won the mind games with #26 and it showed the first race.
As for the race, I was surprised no one broke down.. I can't remember if it was the Ducatis or yamahas that hit 20,000rpm's!!!!!!! I never cared for Hopper, but after his performance, that guy ROCKS.
My friend came to the conclusion (I agree) that Rossi's problem was his gearing. When they showed the throttle bars, Rossi was on the gas around most of the corners. The tighter the corner, the stronger Rossi was. He needed taller gearing
Stoner!!!
Give JB a ring and tell him the gearing was wrong, I bet he'll laugh at you!
The eurosport commentators were saying the Ducati has a better aerodynamic package in a straight line but it makes the bike slightly slower to react in the bends. Don't worry the advantage won't be there at other tracks except maybe Mugello where it'll steam off into the distance again.
The eurosport commentators were saying the Ducati has a better aerodynamic package in a straight line but it makes the bike slightly slower to react in the bends. Don't worry the advantage won't be there at other tracks except maybe Mugello where it'll steam off into the distance again.
Yanaha has a inline engine which is significantly wider than the V4 Ducati, Honda, Suzuki use. So their aero resistance is higher than the slimmer V4s.
Also the steel tubular frame of the Ducati is also thinner than the big allumium chassis the rest use. So that makes the Duke probably the slimmest (best aero) bike on the grid.
Plus their engine is good!!!
Also the steel tubular frame of the Ducati is also thinner than the big allumium chassis the rest use. So that makes the Duke probably the slimmest (best aero) bike on the grid.
Plus their engine is good!!!
Traverser
Save Jabesus
- Joined
- May 27, 2006
- Messages
- 4,024
- Location
- Mts-7
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rgvneil @ Mar 11 2007, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Give JB a ring and tell him the gearing was wrong, I bet he'll laugh at you!
I guess humans don't make mistakes. What if at the start of last season someone mentioned HRC could have clutches wrongly labeled, you would have called that a bluff as well?
I guess humans don't make mistakes. What if at the start of last season someone mentioned HRC could have clutches wrongly labeled, you would have called that a bluff as well?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 11 2007, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It should be easy enough to create at least to different wrappings out of one bike. One XXS an one L
“One XXS and one L”… You cracked me up mate!
That plus Pedrobot encoding must have to be programmed and compiled again, as in his board said “Mood 4”, so they must have several robotic “Moods” now to try and give him a least one emotion or make him smile or something!
“One XXS and one L”… You cracked me up mate!
That plus Pedrobot encoding must have to be programmed and compiled again, as in his board said “Mood 4”, so they must have several robotic “Moods” now to try and give him a least one emotion or make him smile or something!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (teomolca @ Mar 11 2007, 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>their engine is good!!!
^^
That my friend has to be the understatement of the weekend! That thing was is a rocket. The strength of their motor was the cause of the early season speculation that they might not make the whole race due to the increased time the 800cc machines are on full throttle and the decrease in fuel capacity, from 990-800cc's. I guess Ducati put the speculation to bed....so far.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ Mar 11 2007, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Meaning of the pic being?
^^ That my friend is the result of trying to entertain ones 8 month old son while typing and looking for a picture to help illustrate my point. My apologies.
^^
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ Mar 11 2007, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Meaning of the pic being?
^^ That my friend is the result of trying to entertain ones 8 month old son while typing and looking for a picture to help illustrate my point. My apologies.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 11 2007, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes I know you were quoting. Thing is I seem to remember other SBK guys complaining about the same problem where others in the team cope with it.
On the other hand I'm very careful to talk about better suited or not. I don't see why ther are problems going from 2-stroke small bore to 4-stroke big bore or the other way around, at least if we keep weight out of the equation. Tires, engine, chassi are all factors that you learn and understand and then make the best out up the package. Big steps take some time to learn (and 990 to 800 is not one of those) but I can't find a better description for those not adapting than a lesser rider.
This is not something a try to dump on Hayden, but in I find the discussion of "better suited" as totally out of proportions. Both in the 990 vs 800 and in GP - SBK, 800 - 250 and so on. The best riders adapt.
That said, it's of course possible to design a bike for a spesiffic human size and if that is what honda did it's bad. It should be easy enough to create at least to different wrappings out of one bike. One XXS an one L
^^ I agree with you on the "superior riders adapt" saying. I was actually trying to give Nicky Hayden, who is the world champion after all, the benefit of a few races before I count him out. I will wait until the second or third race to read his eulogy. Lets see, Honda got Pedrosa's bike but they gave their defending world champion a lemon? Not likely, Pedrosa is simply outriding him.
On the other hand I'm very careful to talk about better suited or not. I don't see why ther are problems going from 2-stroke small bore to 4-stroke big bore or the other way around, at least if we keep weight out of the equation. Tires, engine, chassi are all factors that you learn and understand and then make the best out up the package. Big steps take some time to learn (and 990 to 800 is not one of those) but I can't find a better description for those not adapting than a lesser rider.
This is not something a try to dump on Hayden, but in I find the discussion of "better suited" as totally out of proportions. Both in the 990 vs 800 and in GP - SBK, 800 - 250 and so on. The best riders adapt.
That said, it's of course possible to design a bike for a spesiffic human size and if that is what honda did it's bad. It should be easy enough to create at least to different wrappings out of one bike. One XXS an one L
^^ I agree with you on the "superior riders adapt" saying. I was actually trying to give Nicky Hayden, who is the world champion after all, the benefit of a few races before I count him out. I will wait until the second or third race to read his eulogy. Lets see, Honda got Pedrosa's bike but they gave their defending world champion a lemon? Not likely, Pedrosa is simply outriding him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Mar 11 2007, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I guess humans don't make mistakes. What if at the start of last season someone mentioned HRC could have clutches wrongly labeled, you would have called that a bluff as well?
Since you are so sure, could you please explain how and why the gearing was so wrong?
Btw with taller gearing do you mean one with higher or lower theoretical maximum speed?
Since you are so sure, could you please explain how and why the gearing was so wrong?
Btw with taller gearing do you mean one with higher or lower theoretical maximum speed?
a great race by Stoner, was hoping to see Vale take the win but Casey used his straight-line speed advantage very well. Yamaha have engine upgrades on the way to address the matter, the next two tracks, Jerez and Istanbul, have comparatively shorter straights (600m for Jerez and 720m for Istanbul) where the Dukes won't have the edge as they did at Qatar. That gives Yamaha until the first week of May to get more power into the engine for the race at the [pretty dull] circuit of Shanghai and it's runway length straight of 1200m, and then soon after races at Mugello and Catalunya, also with long straights. The timing sounds right to me so I think Vale should a) be competitive at Jerez and Turkey (already proved it at Jerez) and b) have his upgrades before Shanghai, so he can match it with the red bikes in top speed. But this all supposes that the Dukes don't go from hero to zero at consecutive races, which they have a history of.
The Honda (Pedrossa's specifically) may have a slight edge on Yamaha at the moment in top speed, but it's not enough to nullify Rossi's superior late braking.
Interesting times ahead!
The Honda (Pedrossa's specifically) may have a slight edge on Yamaha at the moment in top speed, but it's not enough to nullify Rossi's superior late braking.
Interesting times ahead!
Traverser
Save Jabesus
- Joined
- May 27, 2006
- Messages
- 4,024
- Location
- Mts-7
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 11 2007, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Since you are so sure, could you please explain how and why the gearing was so wrong?
Btw with taller gearing do you mean one with higher or lower theoretical maximum speed?
It just a theory. He had high rpm's in the corners, a great start, but yet he couldn't stay in Casey's draft.
Btw with taller gearing do you mean one with higher or lower theoretical maximum speed?
It just a theory. He had high rpm's in the corners, a great start, but yet he couldn't stay in Casey's draft.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Mar 12 2007, 04:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You beat me to it. I agree with you 100%. Rossi has won the mind games with #26 and it showed the first race.
I don't agree Rossi won the mind games. I just feel #26 needs to improve on his cornering and braking.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 12 2007, 06:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That plus Pedrobot encoding must have to be programmed and compiled again, as in his board said “Mood 4”, so they must have several robotic “Moods” now to try and give him a least one emotion or make him smile or something!
Oh no, not again!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dash @ Mar 12 2007, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Honda (Pedrossa's specifically) may have a slight edge on Yamaha at the moment in top speed, but it's not enough to nullify Rossi's superior late braking.
Interesting times ahead!
Agreed
I don't agree Rossi won the mind games. I just feel #26 needs to improve on his cornering and braking.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 12 2007, 06:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That plus Pedrobot encoding must have to be programmed and compiled again, as in his board said “Mood 4”, so they must have several robotic “Moods” now to try and give him a least one emotion or make him smile or something!
Oh no, not again!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dash @ Mar 12 2007, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Honda (Pedrossa's specifically) may have a slight edge on Yamaha at the moment in top speed, but it's not enough to nullify Rossi's superior late braking.
Interesting times ahead!
Agreed
Re Hayden front problems and dani
not...i know nout about riding bikes but i would guess that also
comes down to riding style. Surely if you're using the break more
(as i assume Hayden is) leading to the corner then surely the front is
going to be less stable than if your smother and using less break
and therefor dani doesn't find the same problem?
There's a simplistic idea - no doubt it's more complicated
not...i know nout about riding bikes but i would guess that also
comes down to riding style. Surely if you're using the break more
(as i assume Hayden is) leading to the corner then surely the front is
going to be less stable than if your smother and using less break
and therefor dani doesn't find the same problem?
There's a simplistic idea - no doubt it's more complicated
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2006
- Messages
- 300
all i can say is that im glad it was a Duc that won the race...
...but Capi...
...my heart is broken...
...but Capi...
...my heart is broken...
^^Yeah. I'm sure Loris will pick himself up. I hope having a much younger and obviously hugely talented team mate won't make him feel depressed and past it. He was saying the other day he knew he was going to be a daddy this year, but he had to go into 'daddy' mode a few months early when Casey joined Ducati. I was sure Loris would calm his wild spirits and being with a proper team and having an experienced team mate would do him a world of good. And it has. I hope Loris doesn't get discouraged. Or annoyed. I'd hate to see friction in the Ducati playground though I guess neither Loris nor Casey is the type.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 11 2007, 11:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>“That plus Pedrobot encoding must have to be programmed and compiled again, as in his board said “Mood 4”, so they must have several robotic “Moods” now to try and give him a least one emotion or make him smile or something!
Actually that was 'Mod' not 'Mood'...
And it looks like it was 'give up' mode..because the gap between him and rossi really opened up at that point.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 11 2007, 11:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>“That plus Pedrobot encoding must have to be programmed and compiled again, as in his board said “Mood 4”, so they must have several robotic “Moods” now to try and give him a least one emotion or make him smile or something!
Actually that was 'Mod' not 'Mood'...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malcy @ Mar 11 2007, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm sorry but I don't agree about it being a great race.
I feel now that MotoGP is going to be about who has the fastest bike, not who has the best bike control. It didn't matter if Rossi could pass Stoner because he could alway blast past on the finish line and win. I'd hate to think that it's going to end up like Formula 1!!!!
That was one race, it was only because the finishing straight was so long that he couldn't win..........and lets face it Rossi kept the pressure on, it was a tribute to Stoner that he didn't falter under pressure. Not all tracks will suit the Duke, not all tracks will suit any of the bikes........watch this space........that's why it is better than F1.........F1 is a parade MotoGp can never be like that.
You just can't win can you, if Honda were stong, people would moan, if Yam were strong......well I suppose not many people would moan but there would be some moans lol and if Suzuki have got a really strong bike, which it looks like they have, then it should be really interesting this year. You can't predict the season by one race plus there is always the crashy element. So I think you are wrong........watch this space.
XX Liz
I feel now that MotoGP is going to be about who has the fastest bike, not who has the best bike control. It didn't matter if Rossi could pass Stoner because he could alway blast past on the finish line and win. I'd hate to think that it's going to end up like Formula 1!!!!
That was one race, it was only because the finishing straight was so long that he couldn't win..........and lets face it Rossi kept the pressure on, it was a tribute to Stoner that he didn't falter under pressure. Not all tracks will suit the Duke, not all tracks will suit any of the bikes........watch this space........that's why it is better than F1.........F1 is a parade MotoGp can never be like that.
You just can't win can you, if Honda were stong, people would moan, if Yam were strong......well I suppose not many people would moan but there would be some moans lol and if Suzuki have got a really strong bike, which it looks like they have, then it should be really interesting this year. You can't predict the season by one race plus there is always the crashy element. So I think you are wrong........watch this space.
XX Liz
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
- Messages
- 874
- Location
- UK
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dash @ Mar 12 2007, 01:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>a great race by Stoner, was hoping to see Vale take the win but Casey used his straight-line speed advantage very well. Yamaha have engine upgrades on the way to address the matter, the next two tracks, Jerez and Istanbul, have comparatively shorter straights (600m for Jerez and 720m for Istanbul) where the Dukes won't have the edge as they did at Qatar. That gives Yamaha until the first week of May to get more power into the engine for the race at the [pretty dull] circuit of Shanghai and it's runway length straight of 1200m, and then soon after races at Mugello and Catalunya, also with long straights. The timing sounds right to me so I think Vale should a) be competitive at Jerez and Turkey (already proved it at Jerez) and
have his upgrades before Shanghai, so he can match it with the red bikes in top speed. But this all supposes that the Dukes don't go from hero to zero at consecutive races, which they have a history of.
The Honda (Pedrossa's specifically) may have a slight edge on Yamaha at the moment in top speed, but it's not enough to nullify Rossi's superior late braking.
Despite the lack of power in Rossi's M1, compared to the Ducati, he certainly made up a lot of lost ground in the last few sections of the circuit and that was impressive to watch. Now for a bit more stright line power please Yamaha.
The Honda (Pedrossa's specifically) may have a slight edge on Yamaha at the moment in top speed, but it's not enough to nullify Rossi's superior late braking.
Despite the lack of power in Rossi's M1, compared to the Ducati, he certainly made up a lot of lost ground in the last few sections of the circuit and that was impressive to watch. Now for a bit more stright line power please Yamaha.
Similar threads
