Mental Anarchist
Good point. If the only method which worked involved nearly crashing the thing in every corner as jb has suggested, I wouldn't see that as causing a problem for MM, and he certainly has no problem getting on the gas early etc, or the preconceptions/formed habits of riders brought up on bikes with different technology than is now current.
Good point. If the only method which worked involved nearly crashing the thing in every corner as jb has suggested, I wouldn't see that as causing a problem for MM, and he certainly has no problem getting on the gas early etc, or the preconceptions/formed habits of riders brought up on bikes with different technology than is now current.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Mental Anarchist
Exactly. Casey Marquez has a drive to win. Something sadly lacking in 98% of the gp riders these days.
Bring back the biff I say!!!
or at least riders that will give it a modicum of effort to win.
MM is the new CS.
We need MMVAW back as well.
Exactly. Casey Marquez has a drive to win. Something sadly lacking in 98% of the gp riders these days.
Bring back the biff I say!!!
or at least riders that will give it a modicum of effort to win.
MM is the new CS.
We need MMVAW back as well.
Jumkie
Riding the thing fast was definitely a binary phenomenon, you either could or couldn't, there wasn't much gradation in not being able to ride it fast in proportion to form on other bikes. Not many as young as stoner was or marquez is got to try it though.
I don't disagree that speculation as to whether any rider who has not ridden the thing could have ridden it is hypothetical and irrelevant as you imply. As it stands stoner is the only one who could as you say, and unless ducati go back to the carbon fibre chassis +/- the screamer engine will remain so.
Riding the thing fast was definitely a binary phenomenon, you either could or couldn't, there wasn't much gradation in not being able to ride it fast in proportion to form on other bikes. Not many as young as stoner was or marquez is got to try it though.
I don't disagree that speculation as to whether any rider who has not ridden the thing could have ridden it is hypothetical and irrelevant as you imply. As it stands stoner is the only one who could as you say, and unless ducati go back to the carbon fibre chassis +/- the screamer engine will remain so.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Sloth_27
God !!!! somehow you have tried to even remotely compare Rossi to Stoner !!! ..... and used their ride on a Ducati to do so!!! WTF!!??
The time on Ducati shows:
Greatness
Stoner ......
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. infinitely more dots ...........
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parsecs.
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Capi.
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Hayden.
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Melandri.
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Rossi. ( Who has won just as many GP's on a Ducati as me ........... an interesting fact I thought you may enjoy since you like comparos :lol: :lol: :lol: )
God !!!! somehow you have tried to even remotely compare Rossi to Stoner !!! ..... and used their ride on a Ducati to do so!!! WTF!!??
The time on Ducati shows:
Greatness
Stoner ......
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. infinitely more dots ...........
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parsecs.
.
Capi.
.
.
.
.
.
Hayden.
.
.
.
Melandri.
.
.
Rossi. ( Who has won just as many GP's on a Ducati as me ........... an interesting fact I thought you may enjoy since you like comparos :lol: :lol: :lol: )
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Recurring theme? MotoWWF.
Also, here is a nice article for the Stoner fans. Brought to you by Superbiasplanet and the gutless writer know as "staff".
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Mar/130320c.htm
Jumkie
Saw this. I guess part of his statement is self serving, which does not necessarily make it untrue.
I don't think many eyebrows would have been raised if in some alternative universe lorenzo had gone backwards at yamaha resulting in furosawa being blamed for his problems and this had led to rossi defending him. It can't be true of course that stoner is defending presiozi, as this would imply gratitude of which we all know stoner is incapable.
Saw this. I guess part of his statement is self serving, which does not necessarily make it untrue.
I don't think many eyebrows would have been raised if in some alternative universe lorenzo had gone backwards at yamaha resulting in furosawa being blamed for his problems and this had led to rossi defending him. It can't be true of course that stoner is defending presiozi, as this would imply gratitude of which we all know stoner is incapable.
yamaka46
Yep closed the mines to kill a union and now import coal at higher cost. .....
3462871364030155
Andy Roo, on 22 Mar 2013 - 03:31, said:
Where do you find a pub full of coal miners in the UK these days? They've pretty much closed all the mines.
Yep closed the mines to kill a union and now import coal at higher cost. .....
Joined Jan 2011
3K Posts | 152+
The North!
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Mental Anarchist
The current Ducati is lagging too far behind Honda and Yamaha in development, to think that anybody could win on it beating the vastly improved (since Stoner/Ducati times) factory Jap bikes. I think not even Stoner could win on it nowadays, barring maybe his very own P.I.
Unless it rains of course...
The current Ducati is lagging too far behind Honda and Yamaha in development, to think that anybody could win on it beating the vastly improved (since Stoner/Ducati times) factory Jap bikes. I think not even Stoner could win on it nowadays, barring maybe his very own P.I.
Unless it rains of course...
J4rn0
I here what you are saying but.....
What is the limiting factor for performance in lap/race times? In my opinion it will always be tyres and presently the amount of energy (fuel) available. This is indicated by the fact that both Honda and Yamaha arrive at the same point at the end of the lap. Would both be able to go faster if there was more energy and more tyre? I think yes.
Therefore, regardless of the level of development of the Ducati (it still is a MotoGP bike that on a good day still has the Honda and Yamaha in sight) all it would take is a rider who is able to ride it to the limit of the energy and the tyres. I am not sure that in the last 2 and a bit years we have seen a rider on a Ducati that has the ability to take it to the limit of those to restraints.
Remember that in 2010, Stoner was winning races right before he jumped off it. Then Rossi jumped on it and it went straight to the mid/back of the pack. This has clouded everyones view of the bike just the same as Stoner winning on it made everyone think it was the best bike on the grid. I have absolutely no doubt at all that if Stoner raced the current Ducati in 2013 he would win a race. Why, because Stoner is a rider who will take any bike to the limit of the final limiting component.
Is Marquez the same as Stoner in that regard? As much as it pains me because I was one of the leads of the pack calling him a cheater, I think he is that rider.
I here what you are saying but.....
What is the limiting factor for performance in lap/race times? In my opinion it will always be tyres and presently the amount of energy (fuel) available. This is indicated by the fact that both Honda and Yamaha arrive at the same point at the end of the lap. Would both be able to go faster if there was more energy and more tyre? I think yes.
Therefore, regardless of the level of development of the Ducati (it still is a MotoGP bike that on a good day still has the Honda and Yamaha in sight) all it would take is a rider who is able to ride it to the limit of the energy and the tyres. I am not sure that in the last 2 and a bit years we have seen a rider on a Ducati that has the ability to take it to the limit of those to restraints.
Remember that in 2010, Stoner was winning races right before he jumped off it. Then Rossi jumped on it and it went straight to the mid/back of the pack. This has clouded everyones view of the bike just the same as Stoner winning on it made everyone think it was the best bike on the grid. I have absolutely no doubt at all that if Stoner raced the current Ducati in 2013 he would win a race. Why, because Stoner is a rider who will take any bike to the limit of the final limiting component.
Is Marquez the same as Stoner in that regard? As much as it pains me because I was one of the leads of the pack calling him a cheater, I think he is that rider.
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
there should be a new rookie rule.every rookie to first serve a year on the duc to weed the non-stoners out
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Mental Anarchist
I think Marquez can be the real (new) deal, and we all should be happy he's doing so well (especially since Stoner decided to quit). Without him the upcoming season would look much less interesting, with a fading Rossi trying to catch the fast but unexciting Pedro and Jorge. MM has some characteristics that can remind one of Stoner (he's immediately and amazingly fast even on new machines and new tracks), as well as others that have been associated with Rossi (like a love for close racing and direct confrontation).
But Honda and Yamaha have raised the stakes significantly and widened the gap with Ducati, so it would be a tough call to replicate Stoner's performances on a Ducati nowadays -- even for Stoner himself!
I think Marquez can be the real (new) deal, and we all should be happy he's doing so well (especially since Stoner decided to quit). Without him the upcoming season would look much less interesting, with a fading Rossi trying to catch the fast but unexciting Pedro and Jorge. MM has some characteristics that can remind one of Stoner (he's immediately and amazingly fast even on new machines and new tracks), as well as others that have been associated with Rossi (like a love for close racing and direct confrontation).
But Honda and Yamaha have raised the stakes significantly and widened the gap with Ducati, so it would be a tough call to replicate Stoner's performances on a Ducati nowadays -- even for Stoner himself!
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