Paris Hilton...cause for reflection

Jumkie · Dec 13, 2010

Paris Hilton's involvement in GP seemed caused enough for Gpone to take a reflective look at the series.

Reading the tone of a few articles this year, its occurred to me that some GP news sites are more willing to admit the prominence Rossi has on the sport and the effect, for better or worse, that comes with the territory. I find it amazing that people would still not accept or believe that this dynamic has effected the authenticity of the contest.

So what can we expect from the future of our sport? What plans do the organizers and investors have for the next 10 years? Right now there is the feeling they are doing whatever they can just to get by, with their fortunes continuously tied to one man, who is not Carmelo Ezpeleta, but Valentino Rossi. As they wait for Rossi to decide how much longer he will continue to race, the costs continue to mount and the number of logos on the fairings continues to dwindle.

Among us, we are the ones that are the most informed and passionate of the sport, yet even here, remain a few that insist on looking at results superficially and making conclusion about the rider without the benefit of deeper analysis. We have designated the top four riders in GP and call them "Aliens". There have been a few riders that challenged this notion but have been dismissed because they're perceived as having an ax to grind. I've not liked this moniker, as I am of the opinion that we have a defacto two-factory cup plus Stoner (factory Yamaha vs factory Honda, plus Casey Stoner). I don't think Ducati has been part of this defacto cup since the Ducati's other riders have been a better measure of how the machine matches up, not good.

In 2006, when the development was at its peak for the formula, we had factories and satellites winning multiple times. Did we have a name for those winners and call them "aliens"? The 800s have ushered such a narrow band for success that only the top two factory squads can compete, and only from their number one riders. Now we can sit here and digress again and simply ignore the indictments that surface about the lack of parity and declare, well those are the only guys cable of winning. But I contend, this is far from the truth.

The article makes an appeal to attract "real" investors not celebrities, I'm not so sure this is a problem (plus, if they want to spend their money or name, then go for it). What we need to attract is more authenticity to the sport, starting with the governing body. I think the more damaging aspect of our sport, though still largely unperceived by spectators at large, is the scripted nature of the results. Anyway, as the article reflects and ponders the future of MotoGP, what would you like to see happen with the new formula coming in 2012? I don't think we will see a return to what was a spectacular final year of the 990s, but hope burns eternal.

Your thoughts...

Mental Anarchist · Dec 13, 2010

It is true that the central figure in the sport and the pillar that everything has been built around for a decade is Rossi. I have commented before that I believe that this is the very reason for the sports demise. The reason I have given is that if you are a sponsor looking at throwing money at the sport you look at it from a business perspective. A business person without emotion will see that the sport revolves around Rossi so if they want to put money in it must be on Rossi. This has bleed the other teams and riders dry whilst Rossi and his team have got rich. This is capitalism and capitalism has a history of big fish continuously eating up the little fish until the little fish can no longer get representation. The big fish become so big that the economy can not afford to allow them to fail. Sound familiar?

The other reason for the sports demise is the Euro centric nature of it. As a nationality other than Spanish or Italian I do not find it interesting having a field of primarily spanish and italian riders. There would be no reason for a company in my country to sponsor a spanish or italian rider. The result of this Euro centric emphasis means that you only draw sponsorship from these areas. When these areas are in the poor financial predicament that they currently are then the one egg in your basket can not make scrabbled eggs for everyone.

The sport needs to foster true international growth with GP's spread around the world not more than 1/3 of the races in 2 countries and riders from all around the world not half of the field from the same 2 countries. The majority of people are mostly sheep. They will do what you tell them to do. Dorna have told the sheep to follow Rossi and that is what they have done. They need to not make that mistake again and if they are going to manipulate results as we know they do, then they need to do it in a manor that grows the sports width and depth not just the spire that sits atop of the building.

rcramie · Dec 13, 2010

Mental Anarchist said:
It is true that the central figure in the sport and the pillar that everything has been built around for a decade is Rossi. I have commented before that I believe that this is the very reason for the sports demise. The reason I have given is that if you are a sponsor looking at throwing money at the sport you look at it from a business perspective. A business person without emotion will see that the sport revolves around Rossi so if they want to put money in it must be on Rossi. This has bleed the other teams and riders dry whilst Rossi and his team have got rich. This is capitalism and capitalism has a history of big fish continuously eating up the little fish until the little fish can no longer get representation. The big fish become so big that the economy can not afford to allow them to fail. Sound familiar?

The other reason for the sports demise is the Euro centric nature of it. As a nationality other than Spanish or Italian I do not find it interesting having a field of primarily spanish and italian riders. There would be no reason for a company in my country to sponsor a spanish or italian rider. The result of this Euro centric emphasis means that you only draw sponsorship from these areas. When these areas are in the poor financial predicament that they currently are then the one egg in your basket can not make scrabbled eggs for everyone.

The sport needs to foster true international growth with GP's spread around the world not more than 1/3 of the races in 2 countries and riders from all around the world not half of the field from the same 2 countries. The majority of people are mostly sheep. They will do what you tell them to do. Dorna have told the sheep to follow Rossi and that is what they have done. They need to not make that mistake again and if they are going to manipulate results as we know they do, then they need to do it in a manor that grows the sports width and depth not just the spire that sits atop of the building.

2006: 2nd, MotoGP World Championship

2005: MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2004: MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2003: MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2002: MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2001: 500 MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2000: 2nd, 500 MotoGP World Championship

1999: 250 GP WORLD CHAMPION

1998: 2nd, 250 MotoGP World Championship

1997: 125 GP WORLD CHAMPION

1996: 9th, 125 MotoGP World Championship

1995: 125cc Italian Champion

1994: 125cc Italian Sports Production Champion

1993: 3rd – 125cc Italian Sports Production Championship

1992: Regional Minimoto Champion

1991: 4th – Italian Junior Go-Kart Championship

1990: Regional Go-Kart Championship – 9 wins

1989: First Go-Kart Race

Could that be why he gets the good sponsors?

2.

Italian 5 riders

American 3 riders

Australian 1 rider

Spanish 5 riders

French 1 riders

Finnish 1 rider

Japanese 1 rider

Out of 17 riders you have 7 different nationalities 6 of theme not Italian or Spanish. Giving that motorcycle road racing is taken more seriously over there I see nothing wrong with the line up. The major problem with GP now is economy same thing that is effecting everything.

dwoodhouse · Dec 13, 2010

Mental Anarchist said:
It is true that the central figure in the sport and the pillar that everything has been built around for a decade is Rossi. I have commented before that I believe that this is the very reason for the sports demise. The reason I have given is that if you are a sponsor looking at throwing money at the sport you look at it from a business perspective. A business person without emotion will see that the sport revolves around Rossi so if they want to put money in it must be on Rossi. This has bleed the other teams and riders dry whilst Rossi and his team have got rich. This is capitalism and capitalism has a history of big fish continuously eating up the little fish until the little fish can no longer get representation. The big fish become so big that the economy can not afford to allow them to fail. Sound familiar?

The other reason for the sports demise is the Euro centric nature of it. As a nationality other than Spanish or Italian I do not find it interesting having a field of primarily spanish and italian riders. There would be no reason for a company in my country to sponsor a spanish or italian rider. The result of this Euro centric emphasis means that you only draw sponsorship from these areas. When these areas are in the poor financial predicament that they currently are then the one egg in your basket can not make scrabbled eggs for everyone.

The sport needs to foster true international growth with GP's spread around the world not more than 1/3 of the races in 2 countries and riders from all around the world not half of the field from the same 2 countries. The majority of people are mostly sheep. They will do what you tell them to do. Dorna have told the sheep to follow Rossi and that is what they have done. They need to not make that mistake again and if they are going to manipulate results as we know they do, then they need to do it in a manor that grows the sports width and depth not just the spire that sits atop of the building.

I disagree that Rossi has harmed the sport. He has brought crowds to the tracks and increased worldwide viewership to levels that it never reached before. Do you really think someone like Jorge would have been able to get the $$ he did if the sport hadn't grown the way it has over the last 10 years? What do you think Rossi's starting wage was before the "yellow fever" took over. Rossi is only able to get the $$ he does now because of the grow of the sport/increase in viewers.

Jorge has no trouble getting sponsors - he's world champion. Stoner doesn't have trouble getting sponsors but for his personality. Pedrosa has no issue with getting sponsors. Ultimately, to get sponsors, you've got to have talent and be successful/be marketable. Although a lot of attention is given to Rossi, I don't believe that the other aliens don't get enough publicity. As for those that bring up the rear, well, noone really watches last place in any sport. Motorsport is expensive, if you're going to do a half arsed effort, you'll be at the back.

Pigeon · Dec 13, 2010

well it looks like the future will be like any other business model

to do well maybe you have to "Shag" your way to the top

male/female

the trouble with motogp its a Niche Sport

and it's set mainly round Europe

champs from history the same old locations Ago. Hailwood.Criville.

Sheene.Rossi,Lorenzo.etc

on Japanese Gear

and its business model wont change the world ££$ is fooked and TV Coverage appeals to a few.

Changing the format has hurt it and that happened when a world recession hit 2007

WSBK/BSB Has done well as said many times on TV You can go to a local dealer and by a SBK of the shelf

it appeals to the average Joe

xx CURVE xx · Dec 13, 2010

.if i ever hear the term "scripted nature" when discussing moto gp in person they promptly get punched in the ....... throat.

.... paris

Talpa · Dec 13, 2010

rcramie said:
2006: 2nd, MotoGP World Championship

2005: MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2004: MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2003: MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2002: MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2001: 500 MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2000: 2nd, 500 MotoGP World Championship

1999: 250 GP WORLD CHAMPION

1998: 2nd, 250 MotoGP World Championship

1997: 125 GP WORLD CHAMPION

1996: 9th, 125 MotoGP World Championship

1995: 125cc Italian Champion

1994: 125cc Italian Sports Production Champion

1993: 3rd – 125cc Italian Sports Production Championship

1992: Regional Minimoto Champion

1991: 4th – Italian Junior Go-Kart Championship

1990: Regional Go-Kart Championship – 9 wins

1989: First Go-Kart Race

Could that be why he gets the good sponsors?

2.

Italian 5 riders

American 3 riders

Australian 1 rider

Spanish 5 riders

French 5 riders

Finnish 1 rider

Japanese 1 rider

Out of 17 riders you have 7 different nationalities 6 of theme not Italian or Spanish. Giving that motorcycle road racing is taken more seriously over there I see nothing wrong with the line up. The major problem with GP now is economy same thing that is effecting everything.

Great post, just to let you know though these guys don't like facts, they prefer opinions similar to their own........you have summed it up well. Probably the most international grid since the early 90's. And noted that they have failed to mention if you look back, the series only use to mainly have major tobacco and oil sponsorship, with the change in attitude towards tobacco money Rossi has increased interest enough to bring in major Sponsors like 'Fiat' and now AMG. And across the board we can look at other recents like Randy with 'Playboy' and the huge endorsements from energy drink companies and until recently High speed internet like 'Alice'. In saying that of course the stickers are still dwindling, this is down to many factors, including boring 800cc racing, GFC and the publics view and censorship on tobacco ads, watch a race from the early/late90's and well into the 2000's-jez 'Rothmans' 'Marlboro' Lucky Strike' 'West' 'Camel' and 'Gauloises' plastered everywhere.

These guys look to hate on Rossi in every thread and continually forrage for opinions similar to their own, then call themselves the enlightened few

. As most intelligent fans know, the current overly expensive state of racing in 800cc Motogp is mainly due to Honda and the Manufacturers association. Rossi has always been against the current formula as he realizes the importance of the show and a larger grid. Less money and an increasingly difficult technical playing field is hindering any increased satellite interest, this is due to the manufactures and the complexity of the rules.

Also Celebrity is a part of all major sporting series all around the world. Glamour has to be associated with the worlds leading motorcycle racing series, this has been the case since the days of Ago, and Barry Sheene to a greater extent who ushered in the serious potential for sponsors. This is the world we live in, if you want grass roots then go and focus on local club racing......please

Is it Rossi's fault that his talent and success has brought him such status? (which is at direct odds with the persona in the threads title rise to fame-she wasn't even good in that ....o

) Has his success and status actually prolonged the sports current expensive technical state? Would F1 still have its backers without Lewis, Alonso and a certain Germans return?

Can we blame Rossi for still having to watch the 800's? If we had a repeat of 2007's much more processional racing in 2008-09 would the sport had retained its key financiers? And in direct contrast, I don't think Loris or Nicky, Casey, Colin, Jorge or Dani, even Marco, Randy and Dovi have exactly been bled dry and are poor men, quite the opposite with the average at around 2 million Euros per year, Colin got around 2.5million Euros from riding with Tech3 in 2008, and similar in 2009, Casey Stoner got 5 million in 2009. I'd like to be bled dry then if this is the result!! And if you use the theory that the sponsorship dollar, and indeed the sports success revolves around Rossi, then it also could be said that these riders have Rossi to thank for their very large bank balances, hardly bled dry because of him. As for some, the attraction of having your brand on the bike competing directly with the man is as good as actually having it on his bike.

I still believe though that a lot of major sponsors, and the amounts they are investing, are hanging by a thread in Motogp, that thread may be Rossi........however, only a hater would believe that its somehow his fault, the reasons are varied and vast.

Mental Anarchist · Dec 13, 2010

woody996 said:
I disagree that Rossi has harmed the sport. He has brought crowds to the tracks and increased worldwide viewership to levels that it never reached before. Do you really think someone like Jorge would have been able to get the $$ he did if the sport hadn't grown the way it has over the last 10 years? What do you think Rossi's starting wage was before the "yellow fever" took over. Rossi is only able to get the $$ he does now because of the grow of the sport/increase in viewers.

Jorge has no trouble getting sponsors - he's world champion. Stoner doesn't have trouble getting sponsors but for his personality. Pedrosa has no issue with getting sponsors. Ultimately, to get sponsors, you've got to have talent and be successful/be marketable. Although a lot of attention is given to Rossi, I don't believe that the other aliens don't get enough publicity. As for those that bring up the rear, well, noone really watches last place in any sport. Motorsport is expensive, if you're going to do a half arsed effort, you'll be at the back.

Rossi himself has not harmed the sport but the politics and narrow mindedness that has purposely put Rossi at the centre of the circus has. You mention that viewership has increased, well this might be the case but they don't tune in to watch MotoGP, tell me who do the views turn on to watch? Rossi of course. Why? Because MotoGP has been made to be all about Rossi.

Rossi is not struggling to get sponsors or money flowing into his bank account but Rossi is not the sport. The sport needs a full grid of riders on competitive bikes that have a fair shot at success to grow. More money in Rossi's pocket does not facilitate this. Once again I do not suggest even for a second that this is Rossi's fault. The fault lies with Dorna who have in their short sightedness sort to milk the Rossi phenomenon for all it is worth. Whilst they were doing this they failed to promote, strengthen and build the MotoGP brand.

What will happen in 2013 when Rossi has retired and all of his sponsors disappear along with all of his personal fans?

Woody, you know as much about the sport as almost anyone on here so your comment about those running at the back doing so due to a half arsed effort is below you. You know that there are only a few bikes that are capable of or allowed to run at the front. This is the other reason why there is no sponsorship once you drop below the front 4-6 bikes/riders. The sport is so heavily manipulated that there is no point in sponsoring one of the 'other' bikes as as you said no one is watching.

Mental Anarchist · Dec 13, 2010

Talpa said:
Great post, just to let you know though these guys don't like facts,

Great post? Facts?

Wow way to applaud someone who can google! Shame his google ability was not able to get up to the current year but is that because post 2006 the stats are not quite as good? Facts....name the 5 French riders for me then? What has Rossi's first go-kart ride got to do with anything? Wow he started using Motorised equipment when he was young....bloody awesome! I bet no other person on the grid did that.

Interesting fact that the major problem with MotoGP is just the economy. Glad we got that fact sorted.

Unfortunately in your blind rage you have once again been consistent and missed the point of a conversation. As soon as someone posts a comment that says "I suck Rossi's ...." you are all over it saying "You are so great and I suck his .... too and anyone who doesn't is a hater". Well I am happy to be a hater because personally I prefer .....!

ROCKGOD01 · Dec 13, 2010

xx CURVE xx said:
.if i ever hear the term "scripted nature" when discussing moto gp in person they promptly get punched in the ....... throat.

.... paris

Been there done that. LOL.

Jumkie · Dec 13, 2010

xx CURVE xx said:
.if i ever hear the term "scripted nature" when discussing moto gp in person they promptly get punched in the ....... throat.

.... paris

Then that will be the first thing I say to you when I meet you. "SCRIPTED NATURE"!

What you got against Paris. She may not know .... about the sport, but based on that alone means she will bring with here a few more Rossi fans.

Hahaha. Let me see, uhm, let me think of somebody you might believe.

thinking...thinking...thinking...

Oh yeah, BEN SPIES. Uhm, says well, the electronics on the factory bike is better than the satellite by just a bit, but that bit means a tenth a lap here and there, which results in about a 7 second lead at the end of a 28 lap race. (Not my words, but the words of the current GP next "alien" from Texas). What don't you understand about S-C-R-I-P-T-E-D? I can explain.

(Note: if you guys would like to know when Spies said this, look up the MotoGPod thread.)

Talpa · Dec 13, 2010

Mental Anarchist said:
Great post? Facts?

Wow way to applaud someone who can google! Shame his google ability was not able to get up to the current year but is that because post 2006 the stats are not quite as good? Facts....name the 5 French riders for me then? What has Rossi's first go-kart ride got to do with anything? Wow he started using Motorised equipment when he was young....bloody awesome! I bet no other person on the grid did that.

Interesting fact that the major problem with MotoGP is just the economy. Glad we got that fact sorted.

Unfortunately in your blind rage you have once again been consistent and missed the point of a conversation. As soon as someone posts a comment that says "I suck Rossi's ...." you are all over it saying "You are so great and I suck his .... too and anyone who doesn't is a hater". Well I am happy to be a hater because personally I prefer .....!

I believe the point of the conversation from its origins, is to discuss the nature of the sports funding. And the problems associated with an ever decreasing grid, this started well until Jum just couldn't resist with his 'Scripted Nature' comment. Then you've stated that Rossi is the central pillar of the sport and the reason for it's demise. And I'm arguing that fact, simple enough, are you now twisting the point, or did you twist it to start with? Clearly you've learnt well from the messiah padwan.

Back to the point and if you'd read, which I now doubt you have the ability to, you would see that I expanded on rcarmie's initial point and attributed most of Motogp's grid issues to the current state of technical regulation being imposed through the Manufacturers association, along with the GFC and the public frowning on tobacco sponsorship. The manufactures have made it near on impossible for anyone bar the factory teams to win a race through technical regulation and the very nature of the 800's, in saying this though its still delirium to suggest its scripted, there are still 7-8 riders in Factory teams.

This is in direct contrast to, as you say, because the sports governing body is so focused on Rossi no one else can win, which by the way has been seriously proven otherwise in case you missed it. Do you really think that Honda, Ducati the other side of Yamaha and to a lesser extent Suzuki would bother spending millions every year if they couldn't beat Rossi because Dorna won't allow it???.........and your rather lame moronic 'Rossi is bleeding everyone dry' explanation........not too mention your brilliant theory on the lack of international talent in Motogp.........7 different nationalites, did you ever think that the current following of Motogp has attracted more money and allowed for relatively unknown (certainly not bankable Spanish or Italian) talent like Stoner to gain such great rides

Maybe you should google a bit too before you embarrass yourself anymore, for some of us here like facts. I'm not sucking Rossi's .... at all, just disagreeing with your ridiculous statements directed at him....and offering factual based evidence to support my argument, something which you are not-or ever have.

Fact: The Manufacturers association is controlling the technical regulations of the sport, Honda at the rotting head

Fact: The 800's have ushered in more technical regulation than the sport has ever seen, including the decreased fuel limit, the 6 engine limit, the tyre supply limit, the tyre supplier limit.......

Fact: In the 800 era we have also seen a significant decrease in Practice time in a bid to keep costs down, implemented by Dorna -drawn up by the MSMA. This has clearly hindered the Satellite efforts far more than the Factory boys. And proving to be completely counter productive making it even more expensive to become competitive.

Fact: The 800's have GPS tracking which enables the CPU on board to determine where the bike is on track, what TC setting to apply depending on which particular corner it's taking, how much fuel to allow for accurate acceleration out of the corner and to eventually finish the race, and to allow for tyre wear and engine preservation- just to mention a few......such are the nature of these machines that the latest upgrades mean a lot for the factory boys, much more so than ever before.

Do you really think that this kind of expense for a team, and a sponsor doesn't rate a mention over the delusional theory that Dorna won't allow them to beat Rossi for the sake of the show....? And that this is less responsible for the decline in the grid numbers than the popularity of Rossi? If anything Dorna knows that Rossi is hardly in need of protection, and he is more outspoken than any other rider on the manufacturers association and their 3-4 year bungling of the rules.

Interestingly enough we have seen a back flip on a lot of these regs for the future, and by no coincidence will you see more machines on the grid then, hopefully with a few more tyre suppliers.

To be honest I couldn't give a rats about your sexual preference, and you like Jum so I tend to believe you have a preference for .....'s, However you also love Stoner, which means you love a good ....

I'd say just like your posts your just seriously confused all around....

JohnnyKnockdown · Dec 13, 2010

rcramie said:
2006: 2nd, MotoGP World Championship

2005: MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2004: MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2003: MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2002: MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2001: 500 MOTOGP WORLD CHAMPION

2000: 2nd, 500 MotoGP World Championship

1999: 250 GP WORLD CHAMPION

1998: 2nd, 250 MotoGP World Championship

1997: 125 GP WORLD CHAMPION

1996: 9th, 125 MotoGP World Championship

1995: 125cc Italian Champion

1994: 125cc Italian Sports Production Champion

1993: 3rd – 125cc Italian Sports Production Championship

1992: Regional Minimoto Champion

1991: 4th – Italian Junior Go-Kart Championship

1990: Regional Go-Kart Championship – 9 wins

1989: First Go-Kart Race

Could that be why he gets the good sponsors?

2.

Italian 5 riders

American 3 riders

Australian 1 rider

Spanish 5 riders

French 5 riders

Finnish 1 rider

Japanese 1 rider

Out of 17 riders you have 7 different nationalities 6 of theme not Italian or Spanish. Giving that motorcycle road racing is taken more seriously over there I see nothing wrong with the line up. The major problem with GP now is economy same thing that is effecting everything.

All I could think is why would someone put their whole foot in their mouth on their very first post.

This reply has nothing to do with the questions risen by Jumkie. You are just an evolved form of Talpa. Whenever he becomes stumped or senses an imaginary attack on Rossi he immediatelly blurts out " 9 championships" You go one step further and actually list the 9 championships plus the soap box derby results from when he was 3 years old.

Talpa you really are an ..... if you think this reply had anything to do with the topics Jumkie was pondering

5 French??????????????????

Jumkie · Dec 13, 2010

Talps, when I read the list of the rcremie, the first thought I had was, thats a long winded way of saying "9 time world champ". Except his google battery must have stopped at 2006. So... "7 time world champ" will have to suffice, eh.

What exactly did he say that was insightful?

Anyway, your post was much more long winded and as usual, nothing to do with what was the topic. I didn't write that article, I just quoted them. Gpone guys says all the GP fortunes are wrapped up in Rossi. If you'd like to continue with your head lodged deep in sand, nobody is stopping you. But the rest of the world can see what exactly is the implication. Anarchist wasn't crapping on Rossi (as is your customary kneejerk reaction to accuse) but rather saying there is instability when an entity lacks diversification. sure, there are other sponsors, as you point out, but FIAT and AMG revolve around who? Oh yeah, Rossi. Great, you didn't get Anarchist point.

About the rossi dynamic, its real in GP. You can deny it all you want, pout when people highlight it, and refuse to believe how it could impact the authenticity of the sport, but regardless, it won't go away simply because you refuse to accept it. Why you insist this must be Rossi hating is a clear indication of your inclination to treat VR as a cult figure. Again, keep in mind, the article is saying he's the central figure. We can back this up with a quote from Burgess saying that "alarm bells must have been ringing" when Rossi in a previous occasion threatened to retire if he didn't get his way. This is not us making this up, just like the Saturday Night Special, this is simply a matter of public record. Is Burgess a hater too?

Talpa · Dec 13, 2010

JohnnyKnockdown said:
All I could think is why would someone put their whole foot in their mouth on their very first post.

This reply has nothing to do with the questions risen by Jumkie. You are just an evolved form of Talpa. Whenever he becomes stumped or senses an imaginary attack on Rossi he immediatelly blurts out " 9 championships" You go one step further and actually list the 9 championships plus the soap box derby results from when he was 3 years old.

Talpa you really are an ..... if you think this reply had anything to do with the topics Jumkie was pondering

5 French??????????????????

....... read goose, Mental was having a go at the thing that is Rossi....

I've only been here a bit over a year, but you really are an ..... to think that he ever implys anything else........besides my argument is with Mental, unless you think their one in the same?

Jumkie · Dec 13, 2010

JohnnyKnockdown said:
All I could think is why would someone put their whole foot in their mouth on their very first post.

This reply has nothing to do with the questions risen by Jumkie. You are just an evolved form of Talpa. Whenever he becomes stumped or senses an imaginary attack on Rossi he immediatelly blurts out " 9 championships" You go one step further and actually list the 9 championships plus the soap box derby results from when he was 3 years old.

Talpa you really are an ..... if you think this reply had anything to do with the topics Jumkie was pondering

5 French??????????????????

He actually only got to 7. Perhaps his internet cafe dime was up and only managed to get to 2006?

Yes, five French. There is Randy Depuniet, Randy Depuniet, Randy Depuniet, Randy Depuniet, & Randy Depuniet.

Talpa · Dec 13, 2010

Jumkie said:
Talps, when I read the list of the rcremie, the first thought I had was, thats a long winded way of saying "9 time world champ". Except his google battery must have stopped at 2006. So... "7 time world champ" will have to suffice, eh.

What exactly did he say that was insightful? I think his point was

Anyway, your post was much more long winded and as usual, nothing to do with what was the topic. I didn't write that article, I just quoted them. Gpone guys says all the GP fortunes are wrapped up in Rossi. If you'd like to continue with your head lodged deep in sand, nobody is stopping you. But the rest of the world can see what exactly is the implication. Anarchist wasn't crapping on Rossi (as is your customary kneejerk reaction to accuse) but rather saying there is instability when an entity lacks diversification. sure, there are other sponsors, as you point out, but FIAT and AMG revolve around who? Oh yeah, Rossi. Great, you didn't get Anarchist point.

About the rossi dynamic, its real in GP. You can deny it all you want, pout when people highlight it, and refuse to believe how it could impact the authenticity of the sport, but regardless, it won't go away simply because you refuse to accept it. Why you insist this must be Rossi hating is a clear indication of your inclination to treat VR as a cult figure. Again, keep in mind, the article is saying he's the central figure. We can back this up with a quote from Burgess saying that "alarm bells must have been ringing" when Rossi in a previous occasion threatened to retire if he didn't get his way. This is not us making this up, just like the Saturday Night Special, this is simply a matter of public record. Is Burgess a hater too?

Alice, Marlboro, Monster, Red Bull, Pramac, Repsol, Rizla, Playboy to name a few don't revolve around Rossi at all, most of which are relatively new and just as major as Fiat or AMG. As I mentioned above........

I'm not denying the Rossi phenomenon at all, I'm just seriously disagreeing with the view that it's caused the decline in grid numbers, and made other riders poorer as was stated. I completely agreeing that his popularity is probably keeping the sport afloat and has served as serious damage control during this time of ....... tech regs and Financial trouble AS IVE ALREADY STATED.......

bluegreen · Dec 13, 2010

This is like blaming Michael Jordan for declining revenue and intrest in the current NBA...

The NBA is to blame for that.

I think love, hate or just respect the guy, everbody knows Rossi is the center of the MotoGP universe. Now, what MotoGP as a group (FIM, Dorna, Manufactures) have to realise is...They have Rossi for two more years, maybe a few more. They need to use this time to bring legitamcy back to this sport and come up with a course of action that will ensure long term survival. Changing the format every half decade or so isn't the way to do this.

I'm probably not the guy to outline the post-Rossi survival plan, but I can tell you this, they bettter start working on one.

Mental Anarchist · Dec 13, 2010

Talpa said:
I believe the point of the conversation from its origins, is to discuss the nature of the sports funding. And the problems associated with an ever decreasing grid, this started well until Jum just couldn't resist with his 'Scripted Nature' comment. Then you've stated that Rossi is the central pillar of the sport and the reason for it's demise. And I'm arguing that fact, simple enough, are you now twisting the point, or did you twist it to start with? Clearly you've learnt well from the messiah padwan.

Ok, explain to me how 1 person being the dominate figure and commanding the lions share of the sponsorship helps the sport in general?

Back to the point and if you'd read, which I now doubt you have the ability to, you would see that I expanded on rcarmie's initial point and attributed most of Motogp's grid issues to the current state of technical regulation being imposed through the Manufacturers association, along with the GFC and the public frowning on tobacco sponsorship. The manufactures have made it near on impossible for anyone bar the factory teams to win a race through technical regulation and the very nature of the 800's, in saying this though its still delirium to suggest its scripted, there are still 7-8 riders in Factory teams.

Ok, please point out where rcarmie mentioned technical regulations? I think you will find he puts the issues with MotoGP down to the GFC and does not mention technical regs or tobacco at all.

This is in direct contrast to, as you say, because the sports governing body is so focused on Rossi no one else can win, please point out where I said that no one but Rossi can win which by the way has been seriously proven otherwise in case you missed it. Do you really think that Honda, Ducati the other side of Yamaha and to a lesser extent Suzuki would bother spending millions every year if they couldn't beat Rossi because Dorna won't allow it???Once again, please point out where I said that no one but Rossi can win........and your rather lame moronic 'Rossi is bleeding everyone dry' explanation Please explain to me why this is moronic? If there is 10X of sponsorship funds available and 7X goes to one rider and the rest of the field has to do with 3X please explain to me how this helps lesser teams fund their projects and compete in such an expensive sport. ........not too mention your brilliant theory on the lack of international talent in Motogp.........7 different nationalites 7 Nationalities sounds good when there are 17 riders and these numbers can be considered fact. But as you so often do, you use numbers in a way to prove your point. But if I were to say 10 of 17 riders are from 2 nations, which is also fact, it does not paint the same picture as your use of the numbers. , did you ever think that the current following of Motogp has attracted more money and allowed for relatively unknown (certainly not bankable Spanish or Italian) talent like Stoner to gain such great rides How can you use this as an argument in a discussion on shrinking grids?

Maybe you should google a bit too before you embarrass yourself anymore, for some of us here like facts. You like anything that supports your view just like rcamie's post which was factually wrong, incorrect in its opinion that the GFC was MotoGP's major problem and limited to only Rossi's statistics since birth. It is he who used Rossi's statistics since birth not me but as you like a Fox News version of facts I am sure you won't want any other riders stats since birth listed up besides Rossi's. I'm not sucking Rossi's .... at all, just disagreeing with your ridiculous statements directed at him....and offering factual based evidence to support my argument, something which you are not-or ever have. So your argument is that the technical regulations have lead to a decline in the number of bikes on the grid. And you say that you have backed this up with factual evidence. All I can see is that you recite some technical regulations and what you think is wrong with them. I do not see any factual based evidence that this is the direct cause of a lack of bikes on the grid due to a lack of sponsors. On the contrary I have expressed an opinion, which I have not tried to falsely pass of as fact, that there is a lack of sponsor ship numbers and funds across the width of the field and that this is the reason why there is a lack of bikes on the grid. I give a reason why I think there is a lack of sponsors and funds across the width of the field and that reason is because Dorna has used and placed Rossi at the centre of the circus at the expense of the other participants and therefore it makes a poor business proposition for a potential sponsor to place their money anywhere else but on Rossi. I have stated several times that this is not Rossi's fault for a second but your Fox News like view on the world does not allow you to see, read or hear this so you just attack mindlessly.

Fact: The Manufacturers association is controlling the technical regulations of the sport, Honda at the rotting head

Fact: The 800's have ushered in more technical regulation than the sport has ever seen, including the decreased fuel limit, the 6 engine limit, the tyre supply limit, the tyre supplier limit.......

Fact: In the 800 era we have also seen a significant decrease in Practice time in a bid to keep costs down, implemented by Dorna -drawn up by the MSMA. This has clearly hindered the Satellite efforts far more than the Factory boys. And proving to be completely counter productive making it even more expensive to become competitive. As you have stated this as a fact can you please show me some factual data that proves that more practice time will assist a satellite team be faster. Please explain in your answer how a factory team who can alter everything on their bike including develop new parts would benefit less with more time than a satellite team who can not alter anything on their bikes except set up nor can they develop their own parts. You could reference the list of parts that Gresini or Pramac or Tech 3 brought to the last test that they had developed in their own manufacturing facilities and added to their leased bikes.

Fact: The 800's have GPS tracking which enables the CPU on board to determine where the bike is on track, what TC setting to apply depending on which particular corner it's taking, how much fuel to allow for accurate acceleration out of the corner and to eventually finish the race, and to allow for tyre wear and engine preservation- just to mention a few......such are the nature of these machines that the latest upgrades mean a lot for the factory boys, much more so than ever before. So explain to me how this relates to your stated fact that less practice time has impaired the satellite teams more than the factory teams?

Do you really think that this kind of expense for a team, and a sponsor doesn't rate a mention over the delusional theory that Dorna won't allow them to beat Rossi for the sake of the show....?Once again, please point out where I said that no one but Rossi can win.And that this is less responsible for the decline in the grid numbers than the popularity of Rossi? If anything Dorna knows that Rossi is hardly in need of protection, and he is more outspoken than any other rider on the manufacturers association and their 3-4 year bungling of the rules.

Interestingly enough we have seen a back flip on a lot of these regs for the future, and by no coincidence will you see more machines on the grid then, hopefully with a few more tyre suppliers.

To be honest I couldn't give a rats about your sexual preference, and you like Jum so I tend to believe you have a preference for .....'s, However you also love Stoner, which means you love a good ....

I'd say just like your posts your just seriously confused all around....

Jumkie · Dec 13, 2010

Talpa said:
Alice, Marlboro, Monster, Red Bull, Pramac, Repsol, Rizla, Playboy to name a few don't revolve around Rossi at all, most of which are relatively new and just as major as Fiat or AMG. As I mentioned above........

I'm not denying the Rossi phenomenon at all, I'm just seriously disagreeing with the view that it's caused the decline in grid numbers, and made other riders poorer as was stated. I completely agreeing that his popularity is probably keeping the sport afloat and has served as serious damage control during this time of ....... tech regs and Financial trouble AS IVE ALREADY STATED.......

Ok, the post above where you call Anarchist gay and me a ....., it actually had some decent takes in it.

(BTW, I'm curious to know why you think Casey has a "good ....".

Anyway...

My point was to reflect on the future of the sport, as the guy who wrote the article also pondered the Rossi centric nature of the sport and implied its folly. (Right, do we agree so far that this was partially the guy's point?) He goes on to say that we don't need short term celebrity interest, which I disagree with because honestly any attention our sport gets to me is good. here in the States, most people don't know GP exist. If 80 pound anorexic Paris Hilton can get some attention, .... it, good. Again, the only quote I posted was this idea that the series revolves around Rossi, and its rare when others in the media say it, but when I say it, i'm just full of crap and a conspiracy theorist. But when somebody else says it, well I'll highlight it, then go on to say, what might this mean for the authenticity of the sport. I can't hardly believe that such a central figure would not be given special consideration (my agenda). But it also lent for a spring board to ponder the future of our sport, since we do have most of our fortunes wrapped up in one man (the article's words).

You contend that this dynamic has not negatively effected others but rather everybody is better for the spoils Rossi brings. Perhaps. But for me, I'm bothered that for example Kenny Roberts Senior has said the opposite. That the willingness of Dorna to brand their success around the Rossi brand made it harder for him to garner sponsorship. And when he did, their logos got little to know exposure because Dorna pushing Rossi TV 24-7. Ok, I accpet that you think I hate Rossi. do this exercise, go check out the pictures that the MotoGP website features from the last 5 years, event to event. One thing you will quickly realize, that Rossi comprises a disportionate entries. Who does the media get its cues from?

Just recently we hear Dovi say basically the same thing, that the series revolves around one man. Certainly they are not saying it like its a good thing, right? Are they hating, or pointing out a reality that has an affect on them? Yes, to a degree its made others richer, and to a degree, there is a flip side to this effect. Is this Rossi's fault? NO. But does he manipulate this dynamic to gain advantage? Well, in my opinion, yes.

Oh, and about your issue with the "scripted nature" of the sport. Ok, let me explain it if I haven't already. I'm NOT saying Dorna sets out to say, ok Rossi needs to win this race or this title. I'm saying that there is power politics and business agenda that manipulates rules in favor or detrimental to some competitors. For example, within the brands, factory teams will withold technology from designated satellites or certain competitors. The three examples that became public I can think of involved Barros, Roberts, and recently Spies. At an organizational level, of course its harder to prove because Dorna isn't gonna go public on itself, but others have alluded to the power plays. the examples I can think of are, the Saturday Nights, formula change, Bridgestone debacle, Spec tire, and the once proposed rev limit (mysteriously withdrawn). The Sat Nites, for a few choice rider(S), the formula change, Honda's brain child, Bstone debacle, decidedly for Rossi. So as you can see, I'm not saying it all is about making Rossi win, as sometimes it was about factories not letting satellites beat them, or Honda thinking they were gonna run the field with their jockey. Dorna's rev limit that would have effected Ducati's unique desmodronic valve technology at a time when this was serving them well and forcing the Japs to come up with a better technology. This is what I mean by the "scripted nature". Its a manipulation of the sport, either by teams or by the governing body to advance or detrimentally effect some honest contestants (not just Rossi, as you like to think I fixate on).

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