One tire rule a done deal?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 19 2008, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>METZELER!?!?! Teo, you're better than this...

I also remember reading that Michelin was only interested in competition. But considering they aren't competing with anyone in any series, maybe they'll stick around.
didn't metzeler supply the control tyre for the bmw cup ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 19 2008, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I also remember reading that Michelin was only interested in competition. But considering they aren't competing with anyone in any series, maybe they'll stick around.

If someone in the accounts and or/advertising department can come up with numbers suggesting that being a control tyre still has a worthwhile advertising value, i'd imagine they'll get bidding with the rest of them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 19 2008, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>METZELER!?!?! Teo, you're better than this...

I also remember reading that Michelin was only interested in competition. But considering they aren't competing with anyone in any series, maybe they'll stick around.

Right now I would take a Metzeler control tyre rather than the tyre war. Heck I would even take Hankook tyres even if meant riders would lap faster walking than riding on the wet.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 18 2008, 05:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>didn't metzeler supply the control tyre for the bmw cup ?
That should be reason enough to keep their name from being thrown in the hat.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 18 2008, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If someone in the accounts and or/advertising department can come up with numbers suggesting that being a control tyre still has a worthwhile advertising value, i'd imagine they'll get bidding with the rest of them.
It's hard to disagree with you but I would imagine the advertising department had some numbers that suggested staying in F1 would be to their advantage. I think they're just that passionate about competing. Even if they are getting flogged.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Aug 18 2008, 05:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Right now I would take a Metzeler control tyre rather than the tyre war. Heck I would even take Hankook tyres even if meant riders would lap faster walking than riding on the wet.
Come on Teo, only messing with you. But seriously, Metzelers? This is MotoGP not track day at Dakota County Technical College Raceway.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 19 2008, 12:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That should be reason enough to keep their name from being thrown in the hat.


It's hard to disagree with you but I would imagine the advertising department had some numbers that suggested staying in F1 would be to their advantage. I think they're just that passionate about competing. Even if they are getting flogged.


Come on Teo, only messing with you. But seriously, Metzelers? This is MotoGP not track day at Dakota County Technical College Raceway.

i got to agree, any tyre company that aint even got a wiki page does not deserve to be in motogp.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 18 2008, 05:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> i got to agree, any tyre company that aint even got a wiki page does not deserve to be in motogp.
Yeah, how else are the google-ers supposed to tell us all how great those Metzelers are?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 19 2008, 12:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Yeah, how else are the google-ers supposed to tell us all how great those Metzelers are?
well we all use that sometimes just some more than others

talking of which what about these.

link
yes im bored and cant sleep, i can think of lots more to throw in

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 19 2008, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yes im bored and cant sleep, i can think of lots more to throw in

Yu should play the Wikipedia Jesus game.

For those who don't know: You press the random article button on wikipedia and using only (and strictly) 5 clicks of the mouse you have to navigate your way to the Jesus page. It's suprisingly quite acheivable and you might learn a few random facts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 19 2008, 01:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yu should play the Wikipedia Jesus game.

For those who don't know: You press the random article button on wikipedia and using only (and strictly) 5 clicks of the mouse you have to navigate your way to the Jesus page. It's suprisingly quite acheivable and you might learn a few random facts.
cool, i didn't know they had a random button, great game cheers mate

.... thats spooky, first time
random went to playwright
then william shakespeare
then church of holy trinity
then saint
then jesus

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 19 2008, 12:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yu should play the Wikipedia Jesus game.

For those who don't know: You press the random article button on wikipedia and using only (and strictly) 5 clicks of the mouse you have to navigate your way to the Jesus page. It's suprisingly quite acheivable and you might learn a few random facts.
By just hitting Random or using it once then each page has a click to get to it?

What do you think of this? Dorna launches a study to determine what a motogp tire is to be before the season and writes a fairly close spec. The manufactureres have to meet the spec to be able to sell tires to the series but it is open to all. The spec would be very specific and include chemical compounds and carcass construction maybe even longevity. Every winter the panel would sit and listen to all parties, racers, factories etc. and determine the next level of technology available for the coming season then the tire companies could set up the production facility where it suits them. You could find a few areas for the factories to compete like diameter or profile and a small latitude for rubber compound for instance but keep the tires more consistent between brands. In fact quality would become sort of garrentied. Any team meeting that years standard could pull up a trailer full of tires to the race and sell them to any team so the B teams could get the same tires as everyone. Multiple manufacters could supply enough tires. You could change brand every weekend if you wanted.

I feel for Michelin. They lost their marquee rider and took a kick in the nuts (deservedly so but it still hurt) with the sudden rule change. Bridgestones were at one time free while, if I remember correctly, Team Roberts was paying 60 thousand a weekend for Michelins. Competing like that in several countries by giving your product away is against the law.

Does this proposal sound like I am now a spec tire guy? It would be spec tire but not single tire. The terms are used interchangeably by some and they are quite different in this case. It is more of a compromise position. I haven't quite figured out how to reward the tire companies under this scenario. You would have to allow for brand differences somhow...

I am not going to defend the motogp R&D producing better tires for us street riders line any more. Street tres are good enough. I rode home today on my Powers in the pouring rain @ over 125kms\hr and never had a wiggle. I don't need to go any faster.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 19 2008, 10:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>By just hitting Random or using it once then each page has a click to get to it?


One random selection then click on the links in the pages, great way to kill down time at work.

How about something a little different?

Tyre suppliers - Michelin, Bridgestone, and even Dunlop if they want, can supply a certain amount of front and rear tyres. No team is locked in to any tyre supplier anymore and agreements between team and tyre company now become null & void.

1 - A 90 minute tyre test Friday mornings on race weekends. All teams can test any brand or construction they want. Tyre Brand must be chosen before race day. ( Saturday Night )
Any particular compound or construction from any of the tyre Companies must be available to every team & rider on the grid. Be it satellite or factory team.

It is allowable to qualify on one tyre brand and race on the other if so desired.

If a tyre is not competitive like at Laguna and Brno, then their tyres simply wont be on the grid because no one will use them. We will still have a competitive race because everyone will have a good tyre for the race. But we still can have more than one supplier and the riders and teams can still have choice. It also still fuels competition between the tyre companies to push on with development, because staying still means the teams wont use your tyre and your brand wont be on the grid. A one tyre rule means no more development.

So in short we would still have competition between the tyre brands, but never again be faced with half the grid being on tyres that are 2 to 3 seconds a lap slower than the competition.

Tyre choice becomes more interesting and the tyre companies get more press, because us fans will be looking out for what rider chose what tyre for qualifying and again for the race.

Thoughts?

Ducati and Yamaha built great bikes around Bridgestone tyres - wouldn't work with any other tyre.

Bikes are engineered around the tyres so changing tyre characteristics would require some reengineering to the bike to get the speed and handling to the required level.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Aug 19 2008, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ducati and Yamaha built great bikes around Bridgestone tyres - wouldn't work with any other tyre.

Bikes are engineered around the tyres so changing tyre characteristics would require some reengineering to the bike to get the speed and handling to the required level.



Yamaha and Honda have data for both Michelin & Bridgestone.
Ducati may suffer in the short term, but not for too long.

I'm sure if you asked Dani & Colin in Brno if they would like to bolt on a new set of Bridgestones they would have jumped at the chance. Whilst I agree it's probably not going to work unless they have an extra bike in the garage, I just want to see competition between the tyre brands remain in Motogp.

Bridgestone bring some pretty ordinary tyres to some Formula One race weekends because they have no one to beat.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Aug 19 2008, 06:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thoughts?

Why would a company develop and produce enough tyres to supply the entire motogp grid for an entire weekend when there is a good chance they will be totally shunned in public. The current tyre rules were designed to reduce costs, this system would escelate them beyond anything seen before.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Aug 19 2008, 04:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What do you think of this? Dorna launches a study to determine what a motogp tire is to be before the season and writes a fairly close spec. The manufactureres have to meet the spec to be able to sell tires to the series but it is open to all. The spec would be very specific and include chemical compounds and carcass construction maybe even longevity. Every winter the panel would sit and listen to all parties, racers, factories etc. and determine the next level of technology available for the coming season then the tire companies could set up the production facility where it suits them. You could find a few areas for the factories to compete like diameter or profile and a small latitude for rubber compound for instance but keep the tires more consistent between brands. In fact quality would become sort of garrentied. Any team meeting that years standard could pull up a trailer full of tires to the race and sell them to any team so the B teams could get the same tires as everyone. Multiple manufacters could supply enough tires. You could change brand every weekend if you wanted.

I feel for Michelin. They lost their marquee rider and took a kick in the nuts (deservedly so but it still hurt) with the sudden rule change. Bridgestones were at one time free while, if I remember correctly, Team Roberts was paying 60 thousand a weekend for Michelins. Competing like that in several countries by giving your product away is against the law.

Does this proposal sound like I am now a spec tire guy? It would be spec tire but not single tire. The terms are used interchangeably by some and they are quite different in this case. It is more of a compromise position. I haven't quite figured out how to reward the tire companies under this scenario. You would have to allow for brand differences somhow...

I am not going to defend the motogp R&D producing better tires for us street riders line any more. Street tres are good enough. I rode home today on my Powers in the pouring rain @ over 125kms\hr and never had a wiggle. I don't need to go any faster.
i could not see any tyre company's wanting to bid or be involved if that were the rule. they need contracts like it is now or to be the sole supplier if it went control tyre to justify the investment needed. most company's finances are based on futures these days so they need solid commitment, not we might buy your tyre this race but then again we might not.

How about Michelin, Bridgestone, and Dunlop all have to supply tyres and they get allocated to a different team each race? Control would be a disaster. Just look at V8 racing here in Australia - control tyres with only 2 manufacturers. Bathurst used to be brilliant with minis racing Lamborghinis - now it's like watching paint dry.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lad @ Aug 19 2008, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How about Michelin, Bridgestone, and Dunlop all have to supply tyres and they get allocated to a different team each race? Control would be a disaster. Just look at V8 racing here in Australia - control tyres with only 2 manufacturers. Bathurst used to be brilliant with minis racing Lamborghinis - now it's like watching paint dry.
yeah that would be great, in the name of safety no team would have the first idea what they were going to get ,bit like a lottery....get real man!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 19 2008, 04:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i could not see any tyre company's wanting to bid or be involved if that were the rule. they need contracts like it is now or to be the sole supplier if it went control tyre to justify the investment needed. most company's finances are based on futures these days so they need solid commitment, not we might buy your tyre this race but then again we might not.

Just brain storming...I don't know what you can do other than accept there will be problems and live with the current situation. Surely at some point the development will even out. That is what I expect will happen but it will take patience and there isn't much to go around these days. I really think a one tire supplier rule is a bad idea if not impossible.