One tire rule a done deal?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Aug 17 2008, 07:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If theres no single tyre rule and they just leave it up to the team to use whoever they want.. would Bridgestone want to supply everybody?One of the reasons tire manufactures compete in races is because it is great PR if they can beat the competition. If there is no competition, then the tire choice becomes a mute issue. So it is in their best reason to force their competition to supply a few riders (especaaly yhr no so good ones) with tires so that they can be beaten. On the flip side, a tire company getting beaten over and over undermines any of the advertising they put out telling the public how great their tires are. Hence, the it is the bet interest for the "loser" to pull out of racing. I predict Michelin will.

The one thing that I know will happen with a spec tire is that it won't be tailored to each manufactureer. They will have a tire due to the power transference of each bike made towards one bike. Some will suffer and some will prosper. The sheer cost of developing a tire for a broad range of manufactures will just not happen. Plus they will be working with a company to make sure they don't have issues that could happen in a very real sence for safety. So by the multiple companies coming in to dev tires should really remain the same. Again when Michelin was winning everything and dunlop was the .... tire no one had a word muttered about a spec tire it was just taken as common place and they way things were. As soon as Rossi was bitching about tires and really any Michelin rider Nicky included then all of a sudden Ezy had to make it so that Bridgestone took on at least Vale. This is also documented on several sites such as Crash. net so I am not making it up and it is not speculation on my part. This was voiced by bridgestone themselves since they had to do it to avoid a single tire rule.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 17 2008, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>spot on mate, ive said before that rather than stopping michilin doing there overnighters stones should have been encouraged to do the same. i believe like michilin bridgestone have plants all over the world.
link.
Exactly, bring back the unlimited tires.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GeePee @ Aug 17 2008, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why wasn't this an issue when Michelin was winning and Bridgestone riders were getting flogged?
Because Michelin weren't handed a level playing field. They took their years of development and battling with Dunlop and came out on top by the mid to late 90s and utter dominance in the 990 era. Then, as I said, someone decided it wasn't fair so they limited tires. I would be perfectly content if the rules had not changed and suddenly Bridgestone was beating Michelin senseless (as I predicted would eventually happen), but that's not the case. The rules were changed and suddenly Michelin go from THE tire to likely dropping out.

Everyone put your bias towards Honda away. How would you feel if in the prime of the RC211V, someone decided that it just wasn't fair to the other manufacturers/riders. So Dorna made some sort of rule to hinder one of the 211's advantages. I can't think of any comparable examples as once into details, I'm not as technically gifted as some on this forum. But that's essentially what I feel has happened to Michelin. Their advantage was not lost through competition, but through rule changes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GeePee @ Aug 18 2008, 05:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why wasn't this an issue when Michelin was winning and Bridgestone riders were getting flogged??
Why now?

It has been answered here in this tread post 15 and it has been answrered many times before. It's perfectly natural, and the way it must be.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 18 2008, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Exactly, bring back the unlimited tires.
i think this is the only way to save tire competition in gps. but i think it's to late.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 18 2008, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Because Michelin weren't handed a level playing field. They took their years of development and battling with Dunlop and came out on top by the mid to late 90s and utter dominance in the 990 era. Then, as I said, someone decided it wasn't fair so they limited tires. I would be perfectly content if the rules had not changed and suddenly Bridgestone was beating Michelin senseless (as I predicted would eventually happen), but that's not the case. The rules were changed and suddenly Michelin go from THE tire to likely dropping out.

Exactly.

Michelin hasn't suddenly forgotten how to make great tires; instead, their tire making processes have been prohibited and replaced by mindless tire rules (selecting race rubber before you show up to the track).

I understand things change. I'm all for a 1 tire rule. The one tire rule is least of all Michelin's fault.

ok, if we go for a single make tyre rule who would it be ?

cant be bridgestone or michilin because that would be unfair for the teams who have no data for the selected tyre and an advantage for the teams that do.
i doubt perelli could handle motogp and wsb so who else is capable of supplying all the teams with tyres that are suitable for racing at this level ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 18 2008, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ok, if we go for a single make tyre rule who would it be ?

cant be bridgestone or michilin because that would be unfair for the teams who have no data for the selected tyre and an advantage for the teams that do.
i doubt perelli could handle motogp and wsb so who else is capable of supplying all the teams with tyres that are suitable for racing at this level ?

I don't think Honda or Yamaha would care if Bridgestone was introduced as the control tyre, I think they'll just be happy to be on something other than Michelins.

So Bridgestone is probably the best bet.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Haga @ Aug 18 2008, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think Honda or Yamaha would care if Bridgestone was introduced as the control tyre, I think they'll just be happy to be on something other than Michelins.

So Bridgestone is probably the best bet.
no way. honda would not be happy at all i would think. honda have no data on stones so will be at more of a disadvantage then what they are now imo. if there going the control tyre route it must be a new for everyone make or not at all.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 18 2008, 02:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no way. honda would not be happy at all i would think. honda have no data on stones so will be at more of a disadvantage then what they are now imo. if there going the control tyre route it must be a new for everyone make or not at all.

Honda have a few bikes on B-Stones.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 18 2008, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Honda have a few bikes on B-Stones.
ok but some teams have more data on certain brands more than others. i can see future (they had an advantage because of ....) statement from teams if they didn't go with a new make. besides bridgestone said they could not supply anyone else, they said they didn't want to supply rossi because of this remember .so that count's them out then and i doubt the peeps on stones will be happy about going on michilins and allow teams that are using them currently to have that advantage. dunlop maybe..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 18 2008, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ok but some teams have more data on certain brands more than others. i can see future (they had an advantage because of ....) statement from teams if they didn't go with a new make. besides bridgestone said they could not supply anyone else, they said they didn't want to supply rossi because of this remember .so that count's them out then and i doubt the peeps on stones will be happy about going on michilins and allow teams that are using them currently to have that advantage. dunlop maybe..

Maybe you've stumbled upon something that is useful for my conspiracy theory.

Suppose a control tire was the plan all along (after the tire meetings of 2007) and Ezy felt the fans needed to be eased into it. Suppose Dorna gave Rossi bridgestones b/c all other manufacturers have Bridgestone shod machines to test with (still doesn't make it legit).

Hmmm......that's interesting. It would certainly explain why Michelin seems to have given up. DORNA probably gave them a huge 1 season subsidy to get their act together and to supply current Michelin runners and Tech 3. The supplied everyone but they've failed to improve.

Still doesn't explain how Ezy got to Bridgestone though. Unless you believe the conspiracies about a Michelin control tire (oh yeah, that one is true).

I CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR THE PARTING SHOT FROM MICHELIN! (hint: there won't be one b/c they've signed a confidentiality agreement I'm sure, but hopefully something will squeak out)

I predict Ezy will poll the fans again to gauge the response to control tire rules. Will the results matter now that 2 championship contending Spaniards need them?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Aug 18 2008, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe you've stumbled upon something that is useful for my conspiracy theory.

Suppose a control tire was the plan all along (after the tire meetings of 2007) and Ezy felt the fans needed to be eased into it. Suppose Dorna gave Rossi bridgestones b/c all other manufacturers have Bridgestone shod machines to test with (still doesn't make it legit).

Hmmm......that's interesting. It would certainly explain why Michelin seems to have given up. DORNA probably gave them a huge 1 season subsidy to get their act together and to supply current Michelin runners and Tech 3. The supplied everyone but they've failed to improve.

Still doesn't explain how Ezy got to Bridgestone though. Unless you believe the conspiracies about a Michelin control tire (oh yeah, that one is true).

I CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR THE PARTING SHOT FROM MICHELIN! (hint: there won't be one b/c they've signed a confidentiality agreement I'm sure, but hopefully something will squeak out)

I predict Ezy will poll the fans again to gauge the response to control tire rules. Will the results matter now that 2 championship contending Spaniards need them?
i dont buy into conspiracy theory's normally but i think this one is possible

Despite what Bridgestone say, I think they're the only manufacturer with the resources to supply a control tire. And Lex you're probably onto something again. Not sure about all the subsidies to Michelin to stay on for 2008 or the like but putting Vale on the 'Stones was a way to ease into and get fans excited about a control tire. Put the two best guys on Bridgestones and watch them run away while the mid-pack is dominated by their 'Stone-shod-brethren. Fans of Edwards, Toseland, Hayden, Pedrosa, Dovizioso and Lorenzo notice and whine and beg for even playing fields.

"Oh you want a control tire? I thought that you fans and riders would like the true competition of a tire war, but if it's what you want, who am I to deny you?" And all hail the man who leveled the great quandary that was/is tires. What a great leader he is.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 18 2008, 11:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Despite what Bridgestone say, I think they're the only manufacturer with the resources to supply a control tire. And Lex you're probably onto something again. Not sure about all the subsidies to Michelin to stay on for 2008 or the like but putting Vale on the 'Stones was a way to ease into and get fans excited about a control tire. Put the two best guys on Bridgestones and watch them run away while the mid-pack is dominated by their 'Stone-shod-brethren. Fans of Edwards, Toseland, Hayden, Pedrosa, Dovizioso and Lorenzo notice and whine and beg for even playing fields.

"Oh you want a control tire? I thought that you fans and riders would like the true competition of a tire war, but if it's what you want, who am I to deny you?" And all hail the man who leveled the great quandary that was/is tires. What a great leader he is.
...., was it that easy for dorna to play us all ?

I already wanted control tyre last season ...

I think making a control tyre is not a challenge for any tyre company that has some racing experience.

I would prefer a company that is not involved right now (Dunlop, Pirelli, Metzeler ... whatever), because otherway you give advantage to the teams that already use it.

Unfortunately it's unlikely those companies could bid as high as Michelin & Bridgestone. And Michelin is in a tough position now, they got kicked out of F1, SBK, WRC (BF Goodrich) they need to stay at least in MotoGP. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Michelin single tyre for next season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Aug 18 2008, 11:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Michelin is in a tough position now, they got kicked out of F1, SBK, WRC (BF Goodrich) they need to stay at least in MotoGP. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Michelin single tyre for next season.

Michelin opted to withdraw from all of those series as they are interested only in competing. A change in principles may come about if motogp goes to a control tyre. Bridegstone said they couldn't support one extra rider this year, so how next year will they support the whole grid? Dunlop on the other hand lost the bid for the BSB tyre and could soon be supplying the entire motogp paddock.

A controlled, possibly thinner, but less advanced (probably harder compound) tyre could address a lot of the racing/safetey issues mentioned elswhere too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 19 2008, 12:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Michelin opted to withdraw from all of those series as they are interested only in competing. A change in principles may come about if motogp goes to a control tyre. Bridegstone said they couldn't support one extra rider this year, so how next year will they support the whole grid? Dunlop on the other hand lost the bid for the BSB tyre and could soon be supplying the entire motogp paddock.

A controlled, possibly thinner, but less advanced (probably harder compound) tyre could address a lot of the racing/safetey issues mentioned elswhere too.

Yeah it's true Michelin said that when they went out of F1, but was it true or just a PR stunt after they lost the bid? Anyway at the end of the day Michelin doesn't make a living selling principles, they sell tyres, and they NEED exposure I don't think they can afford dissapearing from MotoGP.

Now both Bstone and Michelin have to produce massive amounts of tyres just for the tests, with a control tyre they would need to make less tyres than they do now even if they have to supply the entire field because there would be almost no testing, and instead of having 15 different constructions and compounds they would have maybe 5 for the whole season (like they do in F1).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 18 2008, 11:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>. Bridegstone said they couldn't support one extra rider this year, so how next year will they support the whole grid? Dunlop on the other hand lost the bid for the BSB tyre and could soon be supplying the entire motogp paddock.
yup

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teomolca @ Aug 18 2008, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I already wanted control tyre last season ...

I think making a control tyre is not a challenge for any tyre company that has some racing experience.

I would prefer a company that is not involved right now (Dunlop, Pirelli, Metzeler ... whatever), because otherway you give advantage to the teams that already use it.

Unfortunately it's unlikely those companies could bid as high as Michelin & Bridgestone. And Michelin is in a tough position now, they got kicked out of F1, SBK, WRC (BF Goodrich) they need to stay at least in MotoGP. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Michelin single tyre for next season.
METZELER!?!?! Teo, you're better than this...

I also remember reading that Michelin was only interested in competition. But considering they aren't competing with anyone in any series, maybe they'll stick around.