Noyes Why Rossi Was Slowest and Wins

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ May 1 2010, 04:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>First answer, Because he is a great rider on clearly the best package and knows how to win plus it has been proven over and over again that you don't need the fastest bike to win. No matter how long the straights are the twisties are always much longer. This is why in years past during the tyre war special tyre's always gave such an advantage. Of course as has always been and always will be the case with motorbike racing the rider makes the biggest difference and Rossi is a prodigious talent.

Second answer, Because Stoner fell off which left Rossi with no one to compete with as he and Stoner in my opinion are the class of the field (soon to be joined by Spies who will be the 3rd true Alien). If this hadn't happen this thread would not exist.

I believe you could stick Rossi and Stoner on the Suzuki and first race they would be at the front.

Oh, ok, but then let me rephrase it: Could Stoner really win with the ‘Slowest down the straight at Qatar’ bike? Notices two relevant points: (1) Even if it is a track that Stoner likes so much and Rossi does not and still wan, and (2) Even if the bike is fast at turns as Yamaha. Because if we take those two points out, my guess would be an even tougher task for Stoner.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ May 2 2010, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh, ok, but then let me rephrase it: Could Stoner really win with the ‘Slowest down the straight at Qatar’ bike? Notices two relevant points: (1) Even if it is a track that Stoner likes so much and Rossi does not and still wan, and (2) Even if the bike is fast at turns as Yamaha. Because if we take those two points out, my guess would be an even tougher task for Stoner.

Let me answer your question with a question.

Could Rossi win with a bike that is as wild through the corners as the Ducati has been the past few years if it was the fastest down the straight?

Despite the above question let me add to our debate by saying that I think that Stoner is a match for Rossi as a rider where talent is concerned. The difference between the two is their style and their experience. Rossi has more experience winning then almost every other racer in history. Come race day this will always give him an advantage. Stoner on the other hand has not even reached the half way point in his career but he has the young advantage that physiologically can be an advantage. We can go on and on but I am just glad that we get to see Stoner race against the best there has been which we never got to see with Rossi at the start of his career because the undisputed previous champion had already retired before Rossi came on the seen. It would have been interesting to see how a young Rossi went against an experienced Doohan. Probably similar to what we see play out today between Rossi and Stoner ala Laguna where experience duffed up the young gun.

TP70 said:

QUOTE (VHMP01 @ May 2 2010, 01:25 PM) Oh, ok, but then let me rephrase it: Could Stoner really win with the 'Slowest down the straight at Qatar' bike? Notices two relevant points: (1) Even if it is a track that Stoner likes so much and Rossi does not and still wan, and (2) Even if the bike is fast at turns as Yamaha. Because if we take those two points out, my guess would be an even tougher task for Stoner.

Let me answer your question with a question.



Could Rossi win with a bike that is as wild through the corners as the Ducati has been the past few years if it was the fastest down the straight?



Despite the above question let me add to our debate by saying that I think that Stoner is a match for Rossi as a rider where talent is concerned. The difference between the two is their style and their experience. Rossi has more experience winning then almost every other racer in history. Come race day this will always give him an advantage. Stoner on the other hand has not even reached the half way point in his career but he has the young advantage that physiologically can be an advantage. We can go on and on but I am just glad that we get to see Stoner race against the best there has been which we never got to see with Rossi at the start of his career because the undisputed previous champion had already retired before Rossi came on the seen. It would have been interesting to see how a young Rossi went against an experienced Doohan. Probably similar to what we see play out today between Rossi and Stoner ala Laguna where experience duffed up the young gun.

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Of course talent is there; in fact I am sure it is at any MotoGP Rider. Top talent, the top four, sure (could be 'for' sure too as Rossi says).



But then again: "Could Rossi win with a bike that is as wild through the corners as the Ducati has been the past few years if it was the fastest down the straight?" Yes. You could say a task against all odds, adding that it had never been achieved by no Rider... ever, was what Rossi did in South Africa 2004, and wan back to back Races with different bikes. So yes, I think Rossi could win with the Ducati (after setting it up to his likings though).

VHMP01 said:

Of course talent is there; in fact I am sure it is at any MotoGP Rider. Top talent, the top four, sure (could be 'for' sure too as Rossi says).



But then again: "Could Rossi win with a bike that is as wild through the corners as the Ducati has been the past few years if it was the fastest down the straight?" Yes. You could say a task against all odds, adding that it had never been achieved by no Rider... ever, was what Rossi did in South Africa 2004, and wan back to back Races with different bikes. So yes, I think Rossi could win with the Ducati (after setting it up to his likings though).

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Ahhhh...setting it up to his likings!!! Yes Rossi likes to ride a smooth controlled bike which is exactly the point of my question in response to yours. Rossi won on the slowest bike down the chute because his bike is the fastest and smoothest through the corners which even at Qatar make up the majority of the track. Your answer suggests that he could not replicate the feat should he jump straight on the Ducati where as I am sure it would be difficult to argue that any rider on the grid would not have their best ride if they jumped straight on the #46 M1.

VHMP01 said:

Of course talent is there; in fact I am sure it is at any MotoGP Rider. Top talent, the top four, sure (could be 'for' sure too as Rossi says).



But then again: "Could Rossi win with a bike that is as wild through the corners as the Ducati has been the past few years if it was the fastest down the straight?" Yes. You could say a task against all odds, adding that it had never been achieved by no Rider... ever, was what Rossi did in South Africa 2004, and wan back to back Races with different bikes. So yes, I think Rossi could win with the Ducati (after setting it up to his likings though).

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Oh... and I forgot to add that South Africa 2004 was a phenomenal ride. I was on the edge of my seat as at the time I was a huge Rossi fan. But even I was not deluded enough to believe that the bike he rode had any resemblance to the disappointment which was the 2002 & 2003 Yamaha M1. You see as an Aussie I am a huge JB fan and it is no coincidence that Rossi only defected to the tuning fork brand because the defection included an almost all Aussie pit team.

TP70 said:

Oh... and I forgot to add that South Africa 2004 was a phenomenal ride. I was on the edge of my seat as at the time I was a huge Rossi fan. But even I was not deluded enough to believe that the bike he rode had any resemblance to the disappointment which was the 2002 & 2003 Yamaha M1. You see as an Aussie I am a huge JB fan and it is no coincidence that Rossi only defected to the tuning fork brand because the defection included an almost all Aussie pit team.

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Sorry mate, but I just cannot see Stoner winning a race on the slowest bike (or Pedrosa for that matter)! To each our own opinion, no harm at all.

VHMP01 said:

Sorry mate, but I just cannot see Stoner winning a race on the slowest bike (or Pedrosa for that matter)! To each our own opinion, no harm at all.

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Not directed at you mate but I have never seen anyone not even Rossi win a race on the slowest bike. By the very definition of a race it is impossible due to the fact that the winner of a race is the one who covers the distance in the shortest time and therefore has the highest average speed over that distance. If that bike/rider is slower on one part of the track then it/they must be equally plus some faster on the rest of the track. Therefore the M1/Rossi is faster than the others through the part of the track which is not the straight and therefore must be the corners. This is why the M1 by 100% of commentators is defined as the best bike on the grid in 2009 and so far in 2010 because of its speed advantage through the corners which in circuit racing is more important than the straights. However if we are discussing drag racing I don't think even Talpa would suggest that Rossi could win a race down the 1/4mile on the slowest bike.

TP70 said:

Not directed at you mate but I have never seen anyone not even Rossi win a race on the slowest bike. By the very definition of a race it is impossible due to the fact that the winner of a race is the one who covers the distance in the shortest time and therefore has the highest average speed over that distance. If that bike/rider is slower on one part of the track then it/they must be equally plus some faster on the rest of the track. Therefore the M1/Rossi is faster than the others through the part of the track which is not the straight and therefore must be the corners. This is why the M1 by 100% of commentators is defined as the best bike on the grid in 2009 and so far in 2010 because of its speed advantage through the corners which in circuit racing is more important than the straights. However if we are discussing drag racing I don't think even Talpa would suggest that Rossi could win a race down the 1/4mile on the slowest bike.

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Of course by definition the one to win has to be the fastest bike throughout the whole race distance. I just do not see Stoner (or Pedrosa) being able to win a race with the ‘Slowest at top speed’ bike, you know, like Rossi’s Yamaha at the speed trap down the straight in Qatar 2010. Hope my opinion it is a bit clearer.

VHMP01 said:

Of course by definition the one to win has to be the fastest bike throughout the whole race distance. I just do not see Stoner (or Pedrosa) being able to win a race with the ‘Slowest at top speed’ bike, you know, like Rossi’s Yamaha at the speed trap down the straight in Qatar 2010. Hope my opinion it is a bit clearer.

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I understand your point but can't agree with it because it suggests that Stoner and Pedrosa can't ride a bike fast through the corners. This flies in the face of reality even a casual observer could distinguish. Both riders have cleared out from the field by well over 10 sec on more than the odd occasion. There is no way this can be achieved with just a few km/hr advantage down the straight. Not even with 10km/hr advantage. Both riders have passed Rossi in the corners and ridden away from him in the corners. Stoner at least has also out raced Rossi on occasion, Catalunya 2007 comes immediately to mind.



I think that most of the MotoGP riders can exploit the strengths of their bikes what ever they may be on any given week end. The great ones are able to ride around their respective bikes weaknesses.

TP70 said:

I understand your point but can't agree with it because it suggests that Stoner and Pedrosa can't ride a bike fast through the corners. This flies in the face of reality even a casual observer could distinguish. Both riders have cleared out from the field by well over 10 sec on more than the odd occasion. There is no way this can be achieved with just a few km/hr advantage down the straight. Not even with 10km/hr advantage. Both riders have passed Rossi in the corners and ridden away from him in the corners. Stoner at least has also out raced Rossi on occasion, Catalunya 2007 comes immediately to mind.



I think that most of the MotoGP riders can exploit the strengths of their bikes what ever they may be on any given week end. The great ones are able to ride around their respective bikes weaknesses.

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Yes, as much as certain tracks and/or certain weekends, most great Riders would ride around problems… But for whole Championships over a decade, 7 out of 10, amazing. So I am not sure about the Statistic here, but the ‘Slowest bike down the Straight’ and still wan, which is the matter of discussion, is amazing!