Nicky Hayden, MotoGP Legend

Gaz said:

Kesh, to me a legend is all about results and just as I felt with CS, Nicky has not achieved enough in pure results terms.

At the time CS was inducted I stated that I felt that a minimum of 3 World Titles is the starting point for a legend (barring a career cut short for injury) as this level of results shows longevity and high achievement across a lengthy time.

People should not (IMO) be a legend because they are a nice guy or because they underachieved due to equipment (some would or could argue that they did have good equipment for a while and still achieved little).

Now, we are talking MotoGP Legends here as well, not motorcycle racing legends and if we go down the path of inducting Nicky than every single MotoGP or 500cc (as that seems to have been drawn into the MotoGP titling) champion must be inducted

The sports true legends should not have their records adjudged against riders who are inducted for popularity reasons (either their own, or the organisers)

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Fair enough. Everybody has their own set of parameters.

Duc999 said:

I think that this is a ploy to keep American viewers interested as soon there will be no American riders.

Hayden is a decent rider. What are the criteria to be a legend?

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I reckon those who are really interested in MGP - will watch it whether there is an American rider or not. Certainly nobody here is watching the races because Hayden is circling around in 17th place. And next year he'll be in WSBK - so making him a legend will do what for Dorna???

JPSLotus said:

Thing is though, Stoner's induction was merited based on what he did...even more so with the hindsight we have now regarding what he accomplished. At the time yeah it seemed more questionable, but looking back, what he did on the Ducati's carbon fiber chassis is something no one in history has been able to duplicate. Only man to win a premier class race --multiple at that-- on a carbon fiber chassis.

Nothing against Nicky, but circling around the past few years in the midfield to backmarker area is something you've got to take into account when looking at his overall body of work.

This is a guy that has won 3 races in MotoGP.

3 races...think about that.

That's not even close to being a MotoGP Legend.

Kevin Schwantz had 25 premier class victories...that's a far different deal than Nicky who has the 1 title as well, but only 3 victories. 8x as many victories as Nicky, almost double the amount of podiums.

Jums is right though...this is being done because it benefits DORNA, not because it benefits anyone else.

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Don't be shocked - but credit where credit is due, that's a material distinction.

I think there's a lot more to being a legend than winning races and championships it's about the overall impact on the sport. Take Barry Sheene for example, there have been better riders than him before and after his world championship years but he because of his image of being the coolest motorcycle racer who ever lived, in an era with no social media or widespread TV coverage became a world famous name, people with absolutely no interest in motorcycles knew who he was.

That is what a legend is to me and Nicky doesn't fall into that bracket.

Keshav said:

Don't be shocked - but credit where credit is due, that's a material distinction.

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Thanks.

Isnt Nicky Hayden the only rider in history to win a world title without any victory in that year ?

nick666 said:

Isnt Nicky Hayden the only rider in history to win a world title without any victory in that year ?

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Nope, he won 2 races that year - Assen and Laguna

Others have however won World Championships in different categories with no wins (Alzamora in 1999 125cc and Andrew Pitt in Supersports 2001 and had not won a race in his SS career until the following season)




We can diss on Haystacks all we want but he still has 3 wins, a few podiums and that World Championship that he never has to give back ........ I suspect that when he leaves MotoGP people will lament the fact that he is no longer around. Good decent guys at the top level are hard to find and harder to replace.

Lel

The list of legends.
motogp.com · MotoGP Legends

"The MotoGP™ Legends include Giacomo Agostini, Mick Doohan, Geoff Duke, Wayne Gardner, Mike Hailwood, Daijiro Kato, Eddie Lawson, Anton Mang, Angel Nieto, Wayne Rainey, Phil Read, Jim Redman, Kenny Roberts, Jarno Saarinen, Kevin Schwantz, Barry Sheene, Marco Simoncelli, Freddie Spencer, Casey Stoner, John Surtees and Carlo Ubbiali."

Why is Max Biaggi not there?

The whole Dorna Legend (trademark) thing is a load of bollocks.
Meaningless.

Dr No said:

The whole Dorna Legend (trademark) thing is a load of bollocks.
Meaningless.

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Still more meaningful than the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame.

Kropotkin said:

Still more meaningful than the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame.

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MotoGP Legends is still nowhere near as bad as the baseball HOF where the writers made money off of writing the breathy praises about many guys who took steroids, in spite of evidence to the contrary...and now pretend to the arbiters of moral justice by voting to keep this guys out of the HOF because they supposedly tarnished the game. Meanwhile, they all actively ignore all of the cheats who currently reside in the HOF by pretending doctoring baseballs was just gamesmanship.

Nicky is now joined by KRJR as a moto GP legend.

Talk about diluting the word Legend.

Gee... If I stick around a while I might be inducted too.

Michael Rudroff?



And that is not to besmirch Hayden but a champion, absolutely, a legend, not in MotoGP (I am a harsh prick and have said before 3 titles are a start for me)



Should add, apologies to Jumkie and others for the above.

The order of awarding this *legend* status is strange to say the least. Kenny was wc 6 yrs before Nicky and had over double race wins. Surely he should have been first.
But like Shovel and Gaz I'm of the opinion it's given a bit cheaply. We'll get non champs like Dani and Sete next.

L8Braker said:

One of Nicky's biggest fans, but MotoGP legend?
I guess for me I put legend pretty high on the mantle.
I'll get flack for this because as an American I should automatically say yes, well deserved, it's about time!
I know everyone in the MotoGP paddock and press corps respect Nicky, but do they think he's a legend because he's a nice guy and works hard?
Yes, he has one world championship in the premier class, but there are a lot of guys out there with no world championships that could probably be put closer to legend status.
Don't know, feels cheap to me.
....Flame away!......

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I like him but as for a legend (leg end perhaps) no not in a thousand years, sorry Nicky.

A case albeit a very slim one could be made for KRJR.

Too bad he didn't .... up at Estoril 2006 because that would have been a ride for the ages had he won that race as he should have. Hell...you could make the case had a victory occurred there with that bike, that would have qualified automatically for LEGEND status. Building a backyard bike that almost won a grand prix were it not for his momentary lapse in awareness as to what lap they were on is quite a significant accomplishment in itself.

I'd also say that as the last non-Yamaha/non-Honda world champion --which has now stretched into 17 seasons-- he shouldn't be as easily dismissed. Sure relative to his old man, his achievements aren't as significant --especially being concentrated in the small window of 1999 and 2000-- nor did he bring a revolution to how the bikes were to be ridden. He had a small window with which to achieve success and he took advantage, which in my opinion is the best any rider can do when presented with such an opportunity. The switch to the 4-stroke engines in 2002 put him at a decisive disadvantage as Honda was the only one with the total package at that time. Flipside was he only finished ahead of John Hopkins once in the three seasons they rode as teammates, but the GSV-R was never going to be a serious threat to the Honda hegemony and newly resurgent Yamaha Factory team.

Legend is a stretch obviously, but he's still a world champion at the end of the day. I'd feel more comfortable with him being given special honors by Suzuki than MotoGP. But I suppose there's a part of me that looks at him as the last of that old guard in the 500cc era. While Rossi would bag the final 500cc title the following year, he was a sign of the future rather than of grand prix motorcycle racing's past. Given that Dorna set the bar for their Legend status by inducting Alex Criville, Kenny Jr isn't that outrageous to be named as a MotoGP Legend. Their bar is low, and frankly I think considering the inclusion of Marco Simoncelli and Daijiro Kato on that list is far more worthy of a discussion since both had the misfortune of dying during a grand prix. While tragic in itself, I don't feel one should achieve legendary status based on dour circumstances.

How many ........ titles is worth one legitimate title?

Before(well too late) ya'll go discrediting the accolade of Legend, fully deserved for Nicky Hayden, consider the 2006 season with a bit of analysis.

And those of you who don't think he's deserving, eat .... and die a long protracted slow horrible death. Hopefully your sterile, so as not to contaminate the world.

Jumkie said:

How many ........ titles is worth one legitimate title?

Before(well too late) ya'll go discrediting the accolade of Legend, fully deserved for Nicky Hayden, consider the 2006 season with a bit of analysis.

And those of you who don't think he's deserving, eat .... and die a long protracted slow horrible death. Hopefully your sterile, so as not to contaminate the world.

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You must have an equation in mind on how many ........ titles equals one legitimate title. Let us know what you think the appropriate number is before ........ turns into legitimate. That will be some rather fine alchemy to see, and if you can make it work, would you be willing to turn your attention to converting other materials into gold? I think there's a more substantial benefit to the latter.

Nicky is more deserving of LEGEND status than either Simoncelli or Kato. In particular the former who while certainly may have been an explosive rider, was also a liability to every other rider on the grid during his couple of years in the premier class. I don't see how giving him the title of MotoGP Legend was even remotely appropriate since 1) he never won a single grand prix at that level and 2) he was as dangerous a rider out there as ever has been in recent memory. All that was being honored was future potential which has no basis in reality considering we can wax philosophically all we want about what he may or may not have done. He never achieved any of that potential so it's a moot point. The same applies with Daijiro Kato. He may have gone on to be a world champion, but he also may have never achieved any of those assumed lofty expectations. We'll never know either way on both riders and object to their inclusion.