My Opinion On Valencia '06

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Oct 31 2006, 12:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Capirex,

Interesting. Rossi has raced, practiced, won, many more times at Valencia then Hayden has ever. This sounds like rationalization for Hayden's performance and Rossi's crack under pressure (consequently throwing away title). How did this track favor Rossi if he has performed well there and has had ample experience at this track?

You call a former champion a Haydenbooper, I think this statement indicates more about your condescending view on Hayden (or maybe Rossi adoration) rather than Mamola's view.

Very few on this site can rap their minds around the fact that the better racer won this year's championship. As I read all the threads, many are filled with rationalizations and apologies for Rossi not winning. Paraphrasing, they say yeah Hayden won but Rossi deserved it. In effect, they reveal their inclination, they are not giving props to a much deserved champion.
You must be talking about an imaginary world. Because those of us in the real world realize that Nicky Hayden is the World MotoGP 2006 Champion.

I see you just can't get your mind rapped around that reality. I guess it works for ostrichs too when they stick their heads in the sand.

I'm calling mamola a haydenbooper after i read his collums on www.eurosport.com, and after admited routing and preferences for hayden
ok i maybe exagerated on term but mamolla admitted that he prefers nicky to rossi in the title batlle.
I ain't a nicky hater or a rossi fan...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Oct 30 2006, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Capirex,

Interesting. Rossi has raced, practiced, won, many more times at Valencia then Hayden has ever. This sounds like rationalization for Hayden's performance and Rossi's crack under pressure (consequently throwing away title). How did this track favor Rossi if he has performed well there and has had ample experience at this track?

You call a former champion a Haydenbooper, I think this statement indicates more about your condescending view on Hayden (or maybe Rossi adoration) rather than Mamola's view.

Very few on this site can rap their minds around the fact that the better racer won this year's championship. As I read all the threads, many are filled with rationalizations and apologies for Rossi not winning. Paraphrasing, they say yeah Hayden won but Rossi deserved it. In effect, they reveal their inclination, they are not giving props to a much deserved champion.
You must be talking about an imaginary world. Because those of us in the real world realize that Nicky Hayden is the World MotoGP 2006 Champion.

I see you just can't get your mind rapped around that reality. I guess it works for ostrichs too when they stick their heads in the sand.



all congradulations to Nicky for sure, he is rightfully the 2006 GP champion...nevertheless, as I look at these two riders I have realized for the first time that to be "motogp champion" and to be the "best rider in motogp" are 2 different things...don't get me wrong, Nicky is without question The Champ, and that is because inevitably racing DOES depend on a bit of luck and small details like if a bike is running good one race or not...yet I can't help but see two racers, one with 58 grand prix wins and the other with 3 and I realize, while Nicky IS champion (I'm not questioning that), I do believe that Rossi is still the best rider on the grid...(and it's just a weird feeling. because all through vale's championships I never questioned that he also was 'the best' as well.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this whole scenario reminds me of when Michael Jordan retired to baseball for a season or two, years back...if anyone remembers those years, it was during Jordan's absence that the "Rockets" won back to back championships and literally looked unstoppable...that was until Michael returned and made everyone forget their names...

my point?...I don't think any person with half a brain would even dare think for a moment that any of Rossi's championships were based on any kind of luck or circumstance in the least bit. He was THE BEST RIDER every year that he won...while Nicky's (and this is arguable) but could be reasoned that without luck and a few crictical circumstances, wouldn't be where he is today 'all by himself'...

IS NICKY HAYDEN THE MOTOGP CHAMPION? YES
IS NICKY HAYDEN THE BEST RIDER IN MOTOGP? NO

So What I'm saying is this. With this championship win, I think we are all agreed, this HAS BY NO MEANS 'begun' the Nicky Hayden era.....and so I dunno, I guess, if Nicky would have dominated this year and in everyone's mind had finally and truly defeated the great Rossi and put him into retirement or whatnot, I'd feel better about it...but I can't help but fear that Nicky won, not because of how "amazing Nicky did", but more so "how poorly Rossi's year was"...


plus after Rossi F'kd up, the "race" turned into a motorcycle parade..

lame.

As far as Capirex and Mamola being based I believe you are wrong Jumkie.
Past experience had shown the statements these men made to be very accurate. They are not Rossi-bobbing it. Its true, Hayden had done good at this track while Rossi did great.

Oh, and welcome back israeli racer.
I started a thread asking about where you went. I don't know if you can find it.

Welcome back!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Oct 30 2006, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Capirex,

Interesting. Rossi has raced, practiced, won, many more times at Valencia then Hayden has ever. This sounds like rationalization for Hayden's performance and Rossi's crack under pressure (consequently throwing away title). How did this track favor Rossi if he has performed well there and has had ample experience at this track?

You call a former champion a Haydenbooper, I think this statement indicates more about your condescending view on Hayden (or maybe Rossi adoration) rather than Mamola's view.

Very few on this site can rap their minds around the fact that the better racer won this year's championship. As I read all the threads, many are filled with rationalizations and apologies for Rossi not winning. Paraphrasing, they say yeah Hayden won but Rossi deserved it. In effect, they reveal their inclination, they are not giving props to a much deserved champion.
You must be talking about an imaginary world. Because those of us in the real world realize that Nicky Hayden is the World MotoGP 2006 Champion.

I see you just can't get your mind rapped around that reality. I guess it works for ostrichs too when they stick their heads in the sand.
well put!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Oct 30 2006, 02:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>IS NICKY HAYDEN THE MOTOGP CHAMPION? YES
IS NICKY HAYDEN THE BEST RIDER IN MOTOGP? NO

Hi Yamahamer,

I think you may need to qualify your second question. If you mean, who was the ‘BEST’ rider for the 2006 season, that rider in terms of how MotoGP decides it, is called the Champion. In other words, the "best" rider is the champion. I see there are lots of people on the threads splitting hairs on this, but I suspect its because they adore Rossi so much that they just can't come to terms with Rossi not winning (not necessarily including you in this category, but maybe). Who you may think is the “best” rider, is an opinion. There I accept we have differing opinions; moreover, if you were to ask someone who they think is the best rider, they may say Loris for example, but in terms of how MotoGP defines who is the “”best”” rider, the term that is use is Champion. So in my opinion, Hayden is currently the “best” rider (endorsed by MotoGP, I may add), Rossi was last year’s best rider.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Oct 30 2006, 11:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Yamahamer,

I think you may need to qualify your second question. If you mean, who was the ‘BEST’ rider for the 2006 season, that rider in terms of how MotoGP decides it, is called the Champion. In other words, the "best" rider is the champion. I see there are lots of people on the threads splitting hairs on this, but I suspect its because they adore Rossi so much that they just can't come to terms with Rossi not winning (not necessarily including you in this category, but maybe). Who you may think is the “best” rider, is an opinion. There I accept we have differing opinions; moreover, if you were to ask someone who they think is the best rider, they may say Loris for example, but in terms of how MotoGP defines who is the “”best”” rider, the term that is use is Champion. So in my opinion, Hayden is currently the “best” rider (endorsed by MotoGP, I may add), Rossi was last year’s best rider.


so, regardless of the result yesterday - re you saying hayden is better than Rossi ?

if so - how do you justify that statement ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capirex @ Oct 30 2006, 02:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm calling mamola a haydenbooper after i read his collums on www.eurosport.com, and after admited routing and preferences for hayden
ok i maybe exagerated on term but mamolla admitted that he prefers nicky to rossi in the title batlle.
I ain't a nicky hater or a rossi fan...

""ok i maybe exagerated on term but mamolla admitted that he prefers nicky to rossi in the title batle."" This is what you said.

Capirex, it appears mamolla was right. (was he not?)

So to say he was a "haydenbooper" seemed to me an attempt to discredit the opinion of one who would be most suited to comment on a campionship “title battle”, namely, a former champion in his own right.

I think your quote proved the point considering who is the champion today, and who is not.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CaptainSnow @ Oct 30 2006, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As far as Capirex and Mamola being based I believe you are wrong Jumkie.
Past experience had shown the statements these men made to be very accurate. They are not Rossi-bobbing it. Its true, Hayden had done good at this track while Rossi did great.

Hi CaptainSnow,

I'm sorry but I’m a little confused by your response. You said I was wrong about something, do you mean about Mamola? Because he turned out to be right, which is my point. Did you mean to say "biased"? (based)? If you meant to say that Capirex thinks that Mamola is “biased” to mean unfairly predjudice, then it is moot because he turned out to be right since his prediction turned out to be correct. So his assertion that he preferred Hayden to Rossi was establish more on his experience as a former champion (which would make sense because he has a unique and credible perspective) rather than a discounting of saying it was “biased” to mean unreasonable preconception.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Oct 30 2006, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interesting. You characterize this as "unlucky" then you try to imply that it may have been an equipment problem (tyre). How is cracking under pressure and consequently taking yourself out like Rossi did "unlucky"?

interesting how you know that it was rossi cracking under pressure??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Oct 30 2006, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Very few on this site can rap their minds around the fact that the better racer won this year's championship. As I read all the threads, many are filled with rationalizations and apologies for Rossi not winning.

very few on this site appear to escape your comments about their perspectives on incedents that have happened so far this season as well. are they not entitled to think what they want? i seem to remember you saying lots of people on this site were wrong when they posted about the crash in estoril too

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ Oct 30 2006, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>so, regardless of the result yesterday - re you saying hayden is better than Rossi ?

if so - how do you justify that statement ?

I think that is the point, because of the result yesterday, Hayden (champ) is the better rider. That is not to say that Rossi has not been the better rider (past). At what point do you concede that there has been a changing of the guard? My opinion is: you witnessed it on Sunday.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Best Man @ Oct 30 2006, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>interesting how you know that it was rossi cracking under pressure??
very few on this site appear to escape your comments about their perspectives on incedents that have happened so far this season as well. are they not entitled to think what they want? i seem to remember you saying lots of people on this site were wrong when they posted about the crash in estoril too

"interesting how you know that it was Rossi cracking under pressure??"

What do you call it? (I suspect if it had been Hayden, perhaps it would have been characterized as "cracking under pressure" by many. I say this because some have said Hayden has not proven himself. Proven what? Proven that he has the mental strength to be a champion? That is what "cracking under pressure" refers to in part. And Hayden proved he has that champion's quality of mental strength.

""very few on this site appear to escape your comments about their perspectives on incedents that have happened so far this season as well. are they not entitled to think what they want?""

Of course, that is why I post. I have responded to other’s perspectives, people have responded to mine, and back and forth. Can I agree or disagree? I get my view too, right? They write their perspectives, I write mine.

Best Man, I like your challenge. I see your comments and responses and some I say, yeah I agree and others I say, naw I don’t. What would be a debate if we all only had one perspective? Sounds like a place I’d rather not visit.

Of course your welcome to your opinions, RaceJumkie, and it is great to have people with such varying opinions on this site, but I think what Matt (The Best Man) is getting at is a little bit of respect wouldn't go astray. Nothing agaisnt what you're posting, man. You've got really intresting opinions, and I mean that. But your posts do seem to indicate a lack of respect for people who you disagree with, and that's not what this place is about. There's nothing wrong with what your saying, it's just how you say it. A little bit of respect goes a long way.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Oct 31 2006, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Yamahamer,

I think you may need to qualify your second question. If you mean, who was the ‘BEST’ rider for the 2006 season, that rider in terms of how MotoGP decides it, is called the Champion. In other words, the "best" rider is the champion. I see there are lots of people on the threads splitting hairs on this, but I suspect its because they adore Rossi so much that they just can't come to terms with Rossi not winning (not necessarily including you in this category, but maybe). Who you may think is the “best” rider, is an opinion. There I accept we have differing opinions; moreover, if you were to ask someone who they think is the best rider, they may say Loris for example, but in terms of how MotoGP defines who is the “”best”” rider, the term that is use is Champion. So in my opinion, Hayden is currently the “best” rider (endorsed by MotoGP, I may add), Rossi was last year’s best rider.

I am no means a Rossi fan and you can put what ever spin you want on it as you have so in your comments.

But when it comes down to it, Rossi is by far the better rider.

Hayden won the championship because he was the most consistant, that does not make him the better rider, it just ment he accumulated the most points.

Rossi is by far the better rider in terms of winning and has and can beat Hayden on the track considerably more than Hayden has Rossi.

I don't rate Hayden as a rider all that highly, to be honest.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Oct 31 2006, 02:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>""ok i maybe exagerated on term but mamolla admitted that he prefers nicky to rossi in the title batle."" This is what you said.

Capirex, it appears mamolla was right. (was he not?)

So to say he was a "haydenbooper" seemed to me an attempt to discredit the opinion of one who would be most suited to comment on a campionship “title battle”, namely, a former champion in his own right.

I think your quote proved the point considering who is the champion today, and who is not.

ehhm

calling mamolla a haydenbooper was harsh from my side...

I also said on that based on his comentary and also his collumn... ok don't know if you read that or not.. that was my personal OPINION

I'll let this one go ... because i don't want to go any further .. everyone 's got right to an opinion and I appology if i went too far...


p.s.I'm n ot a rossi fan or a hayden hater, ok?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Oct 30 2006, 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>plus after Rossi F'kd up, the "race" turned into a motorcycle parade..
lame.
Yamahamer, are you sure that you like motorcycle racing?

Well in my book Hayden is the best rider this season, being the best isn't all about fancy dramatics you know.

Rossi is the best rider on the grid, without doubt, on an inferior bike but had he still been on a honda, there is no one out there that could beat him. However, Hayden derserved it, well done but in the real world the two hondas should have been one two in the championship and were'nt because Rossi is so good. Look at where Colin Edwards finished in the championship and that tells you where Yamaha probably would be without Rossi. I'm not a valentino bopper but he is probably the best motorbike rider the world has ever seen. Anyways, didn't hayden do a burnout in the paddock after the race not dissimilar to Rossi at Donnington? Troy won the race but his thunder was stolen by Hayden.... hey ho and so what!!!

I don't read Mamola's comments on Eurosport nor do I ever hear his commentary because I've never watched a race on the channel. However, I do read his columns on the Alpinestars websites and I never would have guessed he was a Hayden fan. In many columns this season he failed to even mention Nicky. It was always Rossi this, Rossi that and then mention of a Ducati rider. Just my 2p.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Oct 30 2006, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Yamahamer,

I think you may need to qualify your second question. If you mean, who was the ‘BEST’ rider for the 2006 season, that rider in terms of how MotoGP decides it, is called the Champion. In other words, the "best" rider is the champion. I see there are lots of people on the threads splitting hairs on this, but I suspect its because they adore Rossi so much that they just can't come to terms with Rossi not winning (not necessarily including you in this category, but maybe). Who you may think is the “best” rider, is an opinion. There I accept we have differing opinions; moreover, if you were to ask someone who they think is the best rider, they may say Loris for example, but in terms of how MotoGP defines who is the “”best”” rider, the term that is use is Champion. So in my opinion, Hayden is currently the “best” rider (endorsed by MotoGP, I may add), Rossi was last year’s best rider.

Nick is the Champ, yes....here's a nice fact about the new "champion"..

Troy Bayliss has lead more laps in the 2006 Moto GP season than Hayden, 30 to 29.
wow...what a hero........

the RC211V won the championship, not Nick...
The M1 lost the championship, not Rossi..


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Yamahamer, are you sure that you like motorcycle racing?

not only am i a fan, i'm a member!
i race in the local club CMRA....
my only point was the "race" never happened...when Rossi threw it away, it was over...we never got the heads up race against Nick and Rossi....
it was an anti-climatic end to the season.....by the time Valecia came around, i didn't care who was going to win it...i/we wanted a fight, instead we had a DUC and Honda parade...thats all...