Most Under-rated Rider

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 4 2008, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But i ask you what use is talent if you don't actually use it to do anything?

4th place in Moto GP, behind the likes of Stoner, Pedrosa, and Rossi. Imagine those 3 were never born, John would be world champion. Hehe, joking aside, I do think he gets a lot of hype, because he was recruited at a young age directly into GP. He should have started out in the lower ranks, imho. He's going to have to pick up a win at some point, unfortunately I see a real tough battle for him this year on the green beast. But if you look at the field this year, its really hard to pick an underrated rider. Dovisioso seems like a good candidate. He was always in Jorge's shadow in the 250s, but is doing great so far in GP in the practice sessions.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 3 2008, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with the idea that rain is "a great equaliser" and that a wet track will strip the faster machines of some of their advantage.

Agree, that TC has buffered this effect, but I totally disagree that it has made it non-existent as Tom say.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 3 2008, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In my opinion, to cross the line from racer to great you have to win races, there are plenty of good, fast talented riders who have done their time in GP, but have never won a GP. I dont see any racer being truly happy until he/she knows that on that day, at that race, they were the boss.

Yes, a race win is a race win. Can't really argue with that. But then again, it's hard to argue with finishing the season with more points.

Season is upon us buddy. Good luck to all the riders.


(except Pedrosa)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Mar 4 2008, 08:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>4th place in Moto GP, behind the likes of Stoner, Pedrosa, and Rossi. Imagine those 3 were never born, John would be world champion. Hehe, joking aside, I do think he gets a lot of hype, because he was recruited at a young age directly into GP.
I know your joking, but really, just thin about that company. Stoner, devastated, and Rossi/Pedrosa were virtually tied. Then of all the rest of the field, it was Hopkins behind them.

Has anybody seen the movie Semi-pro yet? I did this weekend. 4th Place is something to be proud of.

(Once you see the movie, you'll understand).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (krusty @ Mar 4 2008, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Alas, if only there was Scotsman in MotoGP that we could all learn to like (or dislike for that matter)! Seems like we might be waiting a long time for that to happen!

I'll give my underrated vote to Nicky Hayden by a BIG margin!


Hopkins finished, what is it, 4th in the standings last year thats pretty impressive on a suzuki

Funny coincedence actually but Niall Mackenzie (fae Scotland) finished the 1990 championship in fourth place on a Suzuki without any race wins......

I've said it before Krusty, it's whats the Aussies DNA that makes them so fast, they are designed to run from the Police, it's genetic.


Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 5 2008, 02:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hopkins finished, what is it, 4th in the standings last year thats pretty impressive on a suzuki

Funny coincedence actually but Niall Mackenzie (fae Scotland) finished the 1990 championship in fourth place on a Suzuki without any race wins......

I've said it before Krusty, it's whats the Aussies DNA that makes them so fast, they are designed to run from the Police, it's genetic.


Pete
Hey Pete , what makes you an authority on Australians, do you know any Australians, it ..... me when i hear stuff like that.
I know plenty of Scottish ......s.
Cheers

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 4 2008, 04:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I've said it before Krusty, it's whats the Aussies DNA that makes them so fast, they are designed to run from the Police, it's genetic.


Pete

Wouldn't the Australians be the ones who got caught? That would suggest the proper quick guys were still over here with us, if only it were true

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pepik128 @ Mar 4 2008, 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey Pete , what makes you an authority on Australians, do you know any Australians, it ..... me when i hear stuff like that.
I know plenty of Scottish ......s.
Cheers

It was a joke, and bye the way I probably know more Aussies than you know know Scots. Ive met plenty of ......s of all nationalities, I've also met plenty Aussies who can take a joke.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 4 2008, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would say the rain has little effect on the value of CV's victory. All the riders were out in those conditions, and Chris was the best in the world on that day. As for rain being an equalizer, that's a very very outdated idea now, with chassis, electronic and tyre technology as advanced and calculated as it is the demands of wet racing are simply different to those in the dry, but level it certainly is not.

I partly agree with you regarding rain. Rain racing is different than dry racing and allways have been. Some never get it right, some allways do better on rain even when they have the best equipment for dry racing.
In wet I would guess that electronic play a smaller part than in the dry. Braking still doesn't have any electronics and lowsides are by far the most common DNF in rain. No electronics support there.
As for rain being an equalizer that's true only to a certain degree. Those with massivly underpowered bikes have a much more equal footing before the race, that is still true, with or without electronics. But there is another factor and that's the Kamikaze riders. Those that know that with a "little" luck they can take far more chanses than the top contenders are willing to, and maybe get away with it. They storm through the field and if very lucky might win the race but at least in 90% of the attempts it ends in the gravel. But then again, what did they loose? A 14th on dry day or something. Certainly worth the risk to take it all the way and a potential first (and last) win.
This add to the uncertainty of how to rate riders in the wet.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 4 2008, 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wouldn't the Australians be the ones who got caught? That would suggest the proper quick guys were still over here with us, if only it were true


Good point Tom

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 5 2008, 05:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wouldn't the Australians be the ones who got caught? That would suggest the proper quick guys were still over here with us, if only it were true


Hahaha .... yes I used to say that about you .... leftovers ......


Other Scenarios I have heard:

Yes we are transported ex-petty-convicts and the progeny thereof ...... unfortunately you are the remaining progeny of the ones they hung! ....

The validity can be tested in the thought that: Barry Sheene knew this, therefore whence he had achieved some cred. ( a WC or two ), he decided to raise himself up a notch or two, on the social ladder, and therefore transported himself to Australia


But seriously yes it would be good to have a decent represent. Brit. rider, but one thing I have wondered about regarding that, it may have a lot to do with "space", in Aust we have a lot of space and young kids still get out there and ride, a lot of times its illegal riding ( but that just means you learn to ride fast ) but there are still a lot of opportunities to ride here. Sadly The space left in Britain must be somewhat reduced these days ..... is it not? This is mainly thinking of that early inception of interest in bike when kids get out and just want to fang around on one, its usually the first hurdle of "getting there".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 4 2008, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hahaha .... yes I used to say that about you .... leftovers ......


Other Scenarios I have heard:

Yes we are transported ex-petty-convicts and the progeny thereof ...... unfortunately you are the remaining progeny of the ones they hung! ....

The validity can be tested in the thought that: Barry Sheene knew this, therefore whence he had achieved some cred. ( a WC or two ), he decided to raise himself up a notch or two, on the social ladder, and therefore transported himself to Australia


But seriously yes it would be good to have a decent represent. Brit. rider, but one thing I have wondered about regarding that, it may have a lot to do with "space", in Aust we have a lot of space and young kids still get out there and ride, a lot of times its illegal riding ( but that just means you learn to ride fast ) but there are still a lot of opportunities to ride here. Sadly The space left in Britain must be somewhat reduced these days ..... is it not? This is mainly thinking of that early inception of interest in bike when kids get out and just want to fang around on one, its usually the first hurdle of "getting there".


Good point there mate, all the places I mis spent my youth are built over now. I run motorbike maintenance, legality and safety courses with teenagers in schools as a part of my job. Myself, the bike cops and firemen that work alongside me have talked plenty about the fact that so much wasteground has been built on here now, there is no place for kids to go and be kids. Serves us right for our Grandparents sending you guys away, Were paying the price now, it was probably just for a cabbage or something!

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 5 2008, 09:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>all the places I mis spent my youth are built over now. I run motorbike maintenance, legality and safety courses with teenagers in schools as a part of my job. Myself, the bike cops and firemen that work alongside me have talked plenty about the fact that so much wasteground has been built on here now, there is no place for kids to go and be kids.

and the silly thing is they are trying to do it here with kids too ..... so much effort is spent stopping kids from just having a ride ..... and we still have lots of space really ( though not like it was ).

And then they whinge about the kids doing drugs

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 5 2008, 04:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It was a joke, and bye the way I probably know more Aussies than you know know Scots. Ive met plenty of ......s of all nationalities, I've also met plenty Aussies who can take a joke.

Pete
Sorry mate, i jumped the gun a bit there , i should have seen the joke.
cheers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pepik128 @ Mar 5 2008, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry mate, i jumped the gun a bit there , i should have seen the joke.
cheers.

Not a problem buddy.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 4 2008, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>and the silly thing is they are trying to do it here with kids too ..... so much effort is spent stopping kids from just having a ride ..... and we still have lots of space really ( though not like it was ).

And then they whinge about the kids doing drugs

Aye our job is to get kids interested in bikes or quads, teach them how to do ride safely, and go where the police wont chase you. Not easy, theres just nowhere for kids to go and ramp about and have fun.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 5 2008, 02:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hopkins finished, what is it, 4th in the standings last year thats pretty impressive on a suzuki

Funny coincedence actually but Niall Mackenzie (fae Scotland) finished the 1990 championship in fourth place on a Suzuki without any race wins......

I've said it before Krusty, it's whats the Aussies DNA that makes them so fast, they are designed to run from the Police, it's genetic.


Pete
I'm confused ... so does that "Anglo-American" ie Hopkins have Scottish parents? I always assumed that his parents were English?

My memory isn't the best (too many beers/wines has destroyed some of those brain cells) but didn't Niall Mackenzie ride the Suzuki with HB sponsorship?!

Oh yeah ... It's the sun down here in the Southern Hemisphere that contributes to our fast DNA ... we burn up everything ... especially racing circuits!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 4 2008, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But seriously yes it would be good to have a decent represent. Brit. rider, but one thing I have wondered about regarding that, it may have a lot to do with "space", in Aust we have a lot of space and young kids still get out there and ride, a lot of times its illegal riding ( but that just means you learn to ride fast ) but there are still a lot of opportunities to ride here. Sadly The space left in Britain must be somewhat reduced these days ..... is it not? This is mainly thinking of that early inception of interest in bike when kids get out and just want to fang around on one, its usually the first hurdle of "getting there".
Again being serious what's wrong with toseland as a contender? He has taken a different path but so did mick doohan and he was certainly a contender in the age range toseland will be in for the next several years. I see him as a serious contender if not in this season then in the next one or two.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 5 2008, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Again being serious what's wrong with toseland as a contender? He has taken a different path but so did mick doohan and he was certainly a contender in the age range toseland will be in for the next several years. I see him as a serious contender if not in this season then in the next one or two.

I do see Toseland as a real contender. Matter of fact on paper he may be the best Brit. since Sheen, and even then he may yet surpass him.

Matter of fact I'm thinking that Toseland reminds me of te old "gentleman racers" of old. Seems a very professional type.

There seems a few of them in motogp now"
Stoner, Pedro, Hayden, Toseland, Dovi, De Angelis, RDP ( given the chance LOL ) .....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (krusty @ Mar 5 2008, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm confused ... so does that "Anglo-American" ie Hopkins have Scottish parents? I always assumed that his parents were English?

My memory isn't the best (too many beers/wines has destroyed some of those brain cells) but didn't Niall Mackenzie ride the Suzuki with HB sponsorship?!

Oh yeah ... It's the sun down here in the Southern Hemisphere that contributes to our fast DNA ... we burn up everything ... especially racing circuits!

Nah Hopper's parents are English, I was just pointing out that Mackenzie had a similar season on the Suzuki. And that he was a Scottish GP rider.

Mackenzie rode an HB Honda earlier in his career, in 1990 he was on a Lucky Strike Suzuki. Funny but I always thought the HB paintjob should have been on a Suzuki.

Ive met Niall on a few occasions, helluva nice guy.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Haga @ Mar 4 2008, 07:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In my opinion its Vermeulen, I think on a fully competitive bike he could be challenging Stoner, Rossi and co for the title.

I disagree with everyone who put RDP, even though I like the guy I think he's too inconsistant and makes way too many mistakes, most noticable him taking out Vermeulen and Pedrosa in seperate races last season.

Don't forget Hayden. Hayden was looking respectable at Misano but RDP sent Pedrosa to the pavement and Nicky into the kitty-litter.

Looking back on it, it is amazing how infrequently Hayden hits the deck when he get rammed. He didn't fall at China when Elias it him, he didn't fall at Laguna, and he stayed out of trouble in Misano.

Even when he got hit at Estoril it just looks like the bike disappeared out from under him. He was still in riding position.

Anyway, Hayden needs to produce this year, or he will be OVERrated (unless Michelin turn out to be complete garbage)