Miller WSBK Race

First off, i know it was a big weekend for partying and such, but it is obvious that WSBK has become a secondary thought considering zero threads were started until after the races were complete.I will start. Does it seem conspicuous that all of a sudden the Ducati is a dominant bike on a course that in the past they were nowhere. Have they been given a hp boost out side of official technical regs, have the other teams quit development and are riding out the financial storm with what they had for the last couple of years. It just doesnt make sense how bad the Honda, Yamaha, and to some extent Aprilia, look compared to Ducati this year, especially considering its not a full factory effort. As far as Miller, im sure its a nice facility, and the snowy mountain peaks in the backdrop are breath taking, but ....... that track is ugly on TV. PLANT SOME ....... GRASS. The place looked like someone built a road course inside a motocross track. Rant over

The first race was unsurprisingly unpredictable given the drying track and all. I think Melandri

would have done better were it not his first time at the track. Biaggi seems at sea since Aprilia

went to a chain-driven cam. Loved that bone-headed move in the first race. Haga looked to

pull a Simoncelli early on in the first race. I could have sworn he touched the rear wheel

of the rider he was passing. Can't believe with all their zillions of dollars and experience that

BMW can't make their bikes more reliable. Ducati giving under the table assistance? Big maybe.

Checa looked like a schmuck falling in the mud - but it didn't stop him from going out and winning

again. What else to say? It was a boring race.

I don't think there's any conspiracy surrounding the 1098. Checa is crazy fast at Miller, and Smrz and Guintoli were just there to pick up the pieces in the first race. Regular order was resumed in the second.



From what I understand, the electronics don't work on the BMW. It eats tires and the engine braking is a nightmare, or so I've read. Goes to show how valuable an electronics package is even in SBK. The BMW is a very formidable weapon in Superstock trim, but until they get the electronics sorted, it won't win WSBK races. What looked to be a very good move for Haslam has become a nightmare. I feel for the guy.

povol said:

First off, i know it was a big weekend for partying and such, but it is obvious that WSBK has become a secondary thought considering zero threads were started until after the races were complete.I will start. Does it seem conspicuous that all of a sudden the Ducati is a dominant bike on a course that in the past they were nowhere. Have they been given a hp boost out side of official technical regs, have the other teams quit development and are riding out the financial storm with what they had for the last couple of years. It just doesnt make sense how bad the Honda, Yamaha, and to some extent Aprilia, look compared to Ducati this year, especially considering its not a full factory effort. As far as Miller, im sure its a nice facility, and the snowy mountain peaks in the backdrop are breath taking, but ....... that track is ugly on TV. PLANT SOME ....... GRASS. The place looked like someone built a road course inside a motocross track. Rant over

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The only grasses that will grow in the high plains are uglier than dirt, and crashing through prairie grass would probably hurt worse, too. It hurts bad enough to brush up against thistle when you are walking, imagine hitting it at 100mph. You'd have the microscopic thorns wedged beneath your skin for weeks. They need zen rock gardens on the side of the track. When the riders crash, they can grab the rakes and get a bit of psychotherapy before they head back to the pits.



Ducati might be fast b/c of rules changes. Who knows what rules they are actually using. I think the rulebook says 50mm to 52mm to no-air-restriction. We have no idea what restrictor they are using (if any). We don't even know what Ducati's new SBK is going to be. Superquadratta something or other. Who knows what is going on?

mylexicon said:

The only grasses that will grow in the high plains are uglier than dirt, and crashing through prairie grass would probably hurt worse, too. It hurts bad enough to brush up against thistle when you are walking, imagine hitting it at 100mph. You'd have the microscopic thorns wedged beneath your skin for weeks. They need zen rock gardens on the side of the track. When the riders crash, they can grab the rakes and get a bit of psychotherapy before they head back to the pits.



Ducati might be fast b/c of rules changes. Who knows what rules they are actually using. I think the rulebook says 50mm to 52mm to no-air-restriction. We have no idea what restrictor they are using (if any). We don't even know what Ducati's new SBK is going to be. Superquadratta something or other. Who knows what is going on?

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Why do you do this to yourself



12010:golf.png] Golf Course in Tooele





12011:home.Jpg] Home in Tooele



See that green ...., its grass, and from my observation, looks a hell of a lot better than dirt

povol said:

Why do you do this to yourself



12010:golf.png] Golf Course in Tooele





12011:home.Jpg] Home in Tooele



See that green ...., its grass, and from my observation, looks a hell of a lot better than dirt

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You can grow Kentucky Bluegrass on the moon if you have a NASA budget. We are talking about a business, and a relatively weak one at that. They don't have the irrigation system in place to grow a golf course on the infield. They could do a bit more to fix the joint up, but if they grow natural grasses (no irrigation), it won't be a big improvement.

Austin said:

From what I understand, the electronics don't work on the BMW. It eats tires and the engine braking is a nightmare, or so I've read. Goes to show how valuable an electronics package is even in SBK. The BMW is a very formidable weapon in Superstock trim, but until they get the electronics sorted, it won't win WSBK races. What looked to be a very good move for Haslam has become a nightmare. I feel for the guy.

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I've heard the same thing about the electronics. BMW shun MM and have chosen to develop their own system with Bosch. HRC don't even develop their own electronics anymore, so BMW are fighting an uphill battle, imo.

mylexicon said:

You can grow Kentucky Bluegrass on the moon if you have a NASA budget. We are talking about a business, and a relatively weak one at that. They don't have the irrigation system in place to grow a golf course on the infield. They could do a bit more to fix the joint up, but if they grow natural grasses (no irrigation), it won't be a big improvement.

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Jeez Lex

Did you not see checa go down in the MUD! Also the little stream running over the track on one corner. (Damned dangerous IMO)

Why the need for irrigation? Seems to me theyve got more than enough of the wet stuff to grow a bit of grass.

Besides the fabulous mountain backdrop that place looked like a right ........ & where were the spectators?

It looked like there were more peeps at the BSB round than the WSBK. Whats that all about.

mylexicon said:

The only grasses that will grow in the high plains are uglier than dirt, and crashing through prairie grass would probably hurt worse, too. It hurts bad enough to brush up against thistle when you are walking, imagine hitting it at 100mph. You'd have the microscopic thorns wedged beneath your skin for weeks. They need zen rock gardens on the side of the track. When the riders crash, they can grab the rakes and get a bit of psychotherapy before they head back to the pits.



Ducati might be fast b/c of rules changes. Who knows what rules they are actually using. I think the rulebook says 50mm to 52mm to no-air-restriction. We have no idea what restrictor they are using (if any). We don't even know what Ducati's new SBK is going to be. Superquadratta something or other. Who knows what is going on?

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Oooh.... must be nasty stuff this grass, if it can penetrate cowhide and carbon fiber.

mylexicon said:

You can grow Kentucky Bluegrass on the moon if you have a NASA budget. We are talking about a business, and a relatively weak one at that. They don't have the irrigation system in place to grow a golf course on the infield. They could do a bit more to fix the joint up, but if they grow natural grasses (no irrigation), it won't be a big improvement.

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12012:backstroke.jpg]



The place looked like .... on international TV. All they have to do is grow grass from trackside to 30 ft out, they dont have to seed the whole ....... complex, just whats in the cameras lens.. That wasnt the only thing, edges of the track were crumbled and broken off, it just didnt look like a world class facility. As far as the lack of fans, it was a miserable weekend for weather, temps in the 30's and 40's, with rain and sleet at the track, and 10+ inches of snow in the mountains. It made for a very nice scenic backdrop, but not what you want to sit through and watch a race.

povol said:

12012:backstroke.jpg]



The place looked like .... on international TV. All they have to do is grow grass from trackside to 30 ft out, they dont have to seed the whole ....... complex, just whats in the cameras lens.. That wasnt the only thing, edges of the track were crumbled and broken off, it just didnt look like a world class facility. As far as the lack of fans, it was a miserable weekend for weather, temps in the 30's and 40's, with rain and sleet at the track, and 10+ inches of snow in the mountains. It made for a very nice scenic backdrop, but not what you want to sit through and watch a race.

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Quite true, Donnington in march was a prime example. The infield has been ripped to bits & looks really ugly. However because they left a good strip of the grass around the track edges when you watched it on tv it looked like it always ie: when the moto gp was last there.

The weather was pretty much the same also, they had frost in pit row the saturday morning but still got a healthy crowd.

wow shows how good the racing was if people were moaning about how the track and facility looked on tv!



I couldnt give a .... what it looked like if the racing was good but it was like last time mediocre!

Its always going to be like that as long as Checa is racing in sbk's.



Untouchable at this track.

techno said:

wow shows how good the racing was if people were moaning about how the track and facility looked on tv!



I couldnt give a .... what it looked like if the racing was good but it was like last time mediocre!

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Povol claims not to care about the entertainment value of the racing so I suspect his complaints were more to do with American pride. Miller is perhaps not be pleasing to the eye from the viewpoint of Americans and Europeans who are accustomed to living in green forests. Furthermore, the vastness of the landscape and the facilities overwhelm almost any race regardless of grid size. The riders don't appear to be going anywhere at Miller, they are just ants scurrying around on the high plains. No matter how far or how fast the riders travel, the mountains are fixed in the background. When Superbikes rip through the forest at Monza, it looks like people are going somewhere at rapid pace. Compared to people, Superbikes are a big deal. Compared to nature, bikes are inconsequential. Grass is not going to change anything.



The American West is kind of like the Australian outback (or the way I imagine the Australian outback), you either appreciate that Mother Nature is luring you into a death trap with her rugged beauty or you find it offensive. Teddy Roosevelt was from the East, and he established the national parks b/c he was terrified that man would conquer the American West. It's been 100 years and about the only thing we've "accomplished" is killing off the apex predators. Even in tame places like SoCal it is a never-ending struggle for water and soil nutrients.



Why doesn't Miller have grass? I dunno, Johnny Appleseed. Why don't you take your bag and go show those Mormons how to sow seeds? Just use the lake water to irrigate everything

Rootsman said:

Its always going to be like that as long as Checa is racing in sbk's.



Untouchable at this track.

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That is if you forget 2009, Spies spanked him like a 3 year old at Wal Mart.

povol said:

That is if you forget 2009, Spies spanked him like a 3 year old at Wal Mart.

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I'd bet that if Checa had a bike as good as he has now or even as good as the 2008 Honda he would've given Spies a very hard time.

povol said:

That is if you forget 2009, Spies spanked him like a 3 year old at Wal Mart.

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mylexicon said:

Povol claims not to care about the entertainment value of the racing so I suspect his complaints were more to do with American pride. Miller is perhaps not be pleasing to the eye from the viewpoint of Americans and Europeans who are accustomed to living in green forests. Furthermore, the vastness of the landscape and the facilities overwhelm almost any race regardless of grid size. The riders don't appear to be going anywhere at Miller, they are just ants scurrying around on the high plains. No matter how far or how fast the riders travel, the mountains are fixed in the background. When Superbikes rip through the forest at Monza, it looks like people are going somewhere at rapid pace. Compared to people, Superbikes are a big deal. Compared to nature, bikes are inconsequential. Grass is not going to change anything.



The American West is kind of like the Australian outback (or the way I imagine the Australian outback), you either appreciate that Mother Nature is luring you into a death trap with her rugged beauty or you find it offensive. Teddy Roosevelt was from the East, and he established the national parks b/c he was terrified that man would conquer the American West. It's been 100 years and about the only thing we've "accomplished" is killing off the apex predators. Even in tame places like SoCal it is a never-ending struggle for water and soil nutrients.



Why doesn't Miller have grass? I dunno, Johnny Appleseed. Why don't you take your bag and go show those Mormons how to sow seeds? Just use the lake water to irrigate everything

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And you would be correct. How can the rest of the racing world take the US seriously, when they flip on their TV to watch an international event, and they see a track with crumbling edges, and looked like it was built on a refuse dump. George Barber didnt have to do what he did to make his track look the way it does, but he understood that having nice grass and landscaping for the customers will bring them back. That is an event that is trying to attract international customers, if their impression from tv is an indicator of what they can expect, they wont come. Remember what they say about first impressions.

povol said:

And you would be correct. How can the rest of the racing world take the US seriously, when they flip on their TV to watch an international event, and they see a track with crumbling edges, and looked like it was built on a refuse dump. George Barber didnt have to do what he did to make his track look the way it does, but he understood that having nice grass and landscaping for the customers will bring them back. That is an event that is trying to attract international customers, if their impression from tv is an indicator of what they can expect, they wont come. Remember what they say about first impressions.

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Barber built his facility in Alabama. Miller built his facility in Utah.



From having spent a good deal of time in the Rocky Mtn regions of the US, I think a lush lawn and flawless runoff is a bit much to ask from Miller unless the US government allows Miller to have its own mint. When I see Miller on camera, I'm astonished that the racing surface doesn't look like the runoff b/c it only takes about 1-2 winters before even the nicest pavement succumbs to the melt-freeze cycles that happen during the spring. Intense sun and freezing cold high-altitude nights are unique to the Rocky Mtn region.



I think the only way to improve the optics at Miller is to use the Paul Ricard method--pave a 10-20ft strip of asphalt around the track surface, and use an ornate paint scheme in the runoff areas to hide the cracks. I'm not really sure where they are going to score the money to make such alterations, but it would definitely improve the look of the replace.



Re: racing. It sucked. Rea took out Biaggi in Race 1 and Checa doubled so the championship race is looking less competitive with each passing round.

povol said:

And you would be correct. How can the rest of the racing world take the US seriously, when they flip on their TV to watch an international event, and they see a track with crumbling edges, and looked like it was built on a refuse dump. George Barber didnt have to do what he did to make his track look the way it does, but he understood that having nice grass and landscaping for the customers will bring them back. That is an event that is trying to attract international customers, if their impression from tv is an indicator of what they can expect, they wont come. Remember what they say about first impressions.

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One of my favorite races to watch not only for the layout but the beautiful scenery is Spa Francorchamps.