<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Feb 26 2009, 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
At least we know he's not as much of ..... as Hopkins.
At least we know he's not as much of ..... as Hopkins.
Melandri will race Kawasaki in MotoGP!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 26 2009, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm predicting he won't be the last guy, but he will be a back <strike>marco</strike> marker for sure. But he will have the benefit of an excuse. (unlike while on the Duc). Even Hopper was able to have a fifth place finish once on the Kwak. So I do expect Melandri to have a couple of top tens somewhere or another, maybe in the rain perhaps?
Who knows, maybe now that he has an excuse, the pressure and bar will be lowered and he won't feel so under the gun. This might relax his insecurities and we might see a few good finishes...but I doubt it.
Excuses or not...The Kaw is gonna go backwards ALL year long with no dev...
Who knows, maybe now that he has an excuse, the pressure and bar will be lowered and he won't feel so under the gun. This might relax his insecurities and we might see a few good finishes...but I doubt it.
Excuses or not...The Kaw is gonna go backwards ALL year long with no dev...
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Feb 26 2009, 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>At least we know he's not as much of ..... as Hopkins.
Thanks for the link Clark. What a parting shot from Marco. I'd be interested to see what Hopkin's explanation is.
Uhm, as to your take above. Remind me who said this? (paraphrasing):
'I'm not gonna fight for positions in the race with such a bad machine...'
"we will see whether it's going to be worth racing the bike after the test: if the bike's a disaster, we will all go home."
Perhaps Marco thinks we have short memories, but I don't think he has much standing on bad mouthing people's integrity and commitment.
Thanks for the link Clark. What a parting shot from Marco. I'd be interested to see what Hopkin's explanation is.
Uhm, as to your take above. Remind me who said this? (paraphrasing):
'I'm not gonna fight for positions in the race with such a bad machine...'
"we will see whether it's going to be worth racing the bike after the test: if the bike's a disaster, we will all go home."
Perhaps Marco thinks we have short memories, but I don't think he has much standing on bad mouthing people's integrity and commitment.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 26 2009, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Uhm, as to your take above. Remind me who said this? (paraphrasing):
'I'm not gonna fight for positions in the race with such a bad machine...'
"we will see whether it's going to be worth racing the bike after the test: if the bike's a disaster, we will all go home."
Perhaps Marco thinks we have short memories, but I don't think he has much standing on bad mouthing people's integrity and commitment.
Good point.
'I'm not gonna fight for positions in the race with such a bad machine...'
"we will see whether it's going to be worth racing the bike after the test: if the bike's a disaster, we will all go home."
Perhaps Marco thinks we have short memories, but I don't think he has much standing on bad mouthing people's integrity and commitment.
Good point.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 26 2009, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thanks for the link Clark. What a parting shot from Marco. I'd be interested to see what Hopkin's explanation is.
Uhm, as to your take above. Remind me who said this? (paraphrasing):
'I'm not gonna fight for positions in the race with such a bad machine...'
"we will see whether it's going to be worth racing the bike after the test: if the bike's a disaster, we will all go home."
Perhaps Marco thinks we have short memories, but I don't think he has much standing on bad mouthing people's integrity and commitment.
I hope Hopper busts him in the chops for talking ....
Uhm, as to your take above. Remind me who said this? (paraphrasing):
'I'm not gonna fight for positions in the race with such a bad machine...'
"we will see whether it's going to be worth racing the bike after the test: if the bike's a disaster, we will all go home."
Perhaps Marco thinks we have short memories, but I don't think he has much standing on bad mouthing people's integrity and commitment.
I hope Hopper busts him in the chops for talking ....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Feb 26 2009, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>this is annoying helping out a huge company wtf.... they should be gettin teamKR back on the scene they had a better machine than that piece of crap.
kawasaki are just dam loosers that give up to easily total shambles....
Exactly! Well said.
The new engine rule and others to cut costs was to get smaller teams to join,right?
Why don't they concentrate on smaller teams then.I'm convinced Kawasaki has the funds,but lacked interrest to shape up as much as they would have to be competitive enough.
kawasaki are just dam loosers that give up to easily total shambles....
Exactly! Well said.
The new engine rule and others to cut costs was to get smaller teams to join,right?
Why don't they concentrate on smaller teams then.I'm convinced Kawasaki has the funds,but lacked interrest to shape up as much as they would have to be competitive enough.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anders GUZZI @ Feb 26 2009, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Exactly! Well said.
The new engine rule and others to cut costs was to get smaller teams to join,right?
Why don't they concentrate on smaller teams then.I'm convinced Kawasaki has the funds,but lacked interrest to shape up as much as they would have to be competitive enough.
Another voice of reason. +1
The new engine rule and others to cut costs was to get smaller teams to join,right?
Why don't they concentrate on smaller teams then.I'm convinced Kawasaki has the funds,but lacked interrest to shape up as much as they would have to be competitive enough.
Another voice of reason. +1
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 26 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Agree Sacky. But you know, I was pondering for a moment while my cynical hat was on, and I thought about this connection. Tell me what you (or whoever) think. I mentioned the marketability issue, as Austin also agreed, I got me thinking, could Drona have pushed for Marco since bringing back Hopkins might conflict with a certain energy drink brand being placed squarely on the head of the cash cow of the sport...a certain Yamaha rider?
Hummm....I wonder.
I'm thinking its really looking like Hopper's MotoGP career is over. By taking the Monster Energy Money (which really helped keep Hopper in the game) and putting it on Rossi, a better marketing value, this effectively made Hopkins a disowned child. Hopkins has become KRorized.
Dorna=backroom deals, preferential treatment deals, glamour deals, ...NOT competitive parity deals.
i think that's quite possible but unlikely only because its not a main sponsor for rossi. I reckon its just more of a case that marco will rider cheaper than hopper.
Hummm....I wonder.
I'm thinking its really looking like Hopper's MotoGP career is over. By taking the Monster Energy Money (which really helped keep Hopper in the game) and putting it on Rossi, a better marketing value, this effectively made Hopkins a disowned child. Hopkins has become KRorized.
Dorna=backroom deals, preferential treatment deals, glamour deals, ...NOT competitive parity deals.
i think that's quite possible but unlikely only because its not a main sponsor for rossi. I reckon its just more of a case that marco will rider cheaper than hopper.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 26 2009, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with most of your post except this part.
Dude, you're gonna go believing at face value their statement? Haha, less I remind you the statements other Dorna-& (submit partner here) press releases and their "reasoning" that later seemed to make no sense: ie Bstone saga. I wouldn't put anything past Dorna-&co.
The was NOT 'new' money brotha, that money was 're-allocated' (notice who this has re-located in it).
Austin, do you ever listen to 'Rage Against the Machine'? Don't be a sucka of a press release.
I at first thought it was fishy as well but he does have a contract. I'm not entirely sure how the Kawasaki/Monster partnership of 2008 is intertwined but Hopkins was getting money from both, and as they appeared to be tied together, it's my assumption that Hopkins will continue to get paid in 2009. But maybe you're right, with Monster paying some of Hopper's salary and having their title sponsorship terminated, maybe they could legally cut out Hopkins.
But I would be surprised if they weren't willing to spend the money on both Hopkins and Rossi. They have money in nearly every action sports athlete in this country. Based on that I'd say the Rossi bit is isolated from Hopkins.
Dude, you're gonna go believing at face value their statement? Haha, less I remind you the statements other Dorna-& (submit partner here) press releases and their "reasoning" that later seemed to make no sense: ie Bstone saga. I wouldn't put anything past Dorna-&co.
The was NOT 'new' money brotha, that money was 're-allocated' (notice who this has re-located in it).
Austin, do you ever listen to 'Rage Against the Machine'? Don't be a sucka of a press release.
I at first thought it was fishy as well but he does have a contract. I'm not entirely sure how the Kawasaki/Monster partnership of 2008 is intertwined but Hopkins was getting money from both, and as they appeared to be tied together, it's my assumption that Hopkins will continue to get paid in 2009. But maybe you're right, with Monster paying some of Hopper's salary and having their title sponsorship terminated, maybe they could legally cut out Hopkins.
But I would be surprised if they weren't willing to spend the money on both Hopkins and Rossi. They have money in nearly every action sports athlete in this country. Based on that I'd say the Rossi bit is isolated from Hopkins.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anders GUZZI @ Feb 26 2009, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Exactly! Well said.
The new engine rule and others to cut costs was to get smaller teams to join,right?
Why don't they concentrate on smaller teams then.I'm convinced Kawasaki has the funds,but lacked interrest to shape up as much as they would have to be competitive enough.
Yamaha are saying that in the short term the new engine rules will cost them more money because they will have to do R&D to prolong engine life, which is what we thought on here. As one commentator says, any benefit of the rule will come when the economic crisis is hopefully over but the R&D money will have to be spent now at the peak of the crisis. Even when dorna make rules with good intentions, and they probably mostly have good intentions to be fair, they stuff up.
The new engine rule and others to cut costs was to get smaller teams to join,right?
Why don't they concentrate on smaller teams then.I'm convinced Kawasaki has the funds,but lacked interrest to shape up as much as they would have to be competitive enough.
Yamaha are saying that in the short term the new engine rules will cost them more money because they will have to do R&D to prolong engine life, which is what we thought on here. As one commentator says, any benefit of the rule will come when the economic crisis is hopefully over but the R&D money will have to be spent now at the peak of the crisis. Even when dorna make rules with good intentions, and they probably mostly have good intentions to be fair, they stuff up.
Between the 2 who would go with Hopper over Marco?
Marco:
Youngest rider to win 125GP in Assen at 15
Youngest rider to win 250GP championship
Hopper:
2000 750 AMA supersport champ
2001 Formula extreme champ
GP
Marco: 250 Champion 2002 Hopkins: 15th
Marco: 15th in 2003 Hopkins: 17th
Marco: 12th in 2004 Hopkins: 16th
Marco: 2nd in 2005 Hopkins: 14th
Marco: 4th in 2006 Hopkins: 10th
Marco: 5th in 2007 Hopkins: 4th
Marco: 17th in 2008 Hopkins: 16th
Marco all the way. In no way did his disaster year at Ducati reflect his potential. Second in the championship did that. Top 5, 3 years in a row on non factory machines did that. No one wants to be the joke of the paddock and neither does he. Somehow it's okay for Rossi to whine and change tires (unheard of before) but not for Melandri to dislike a certain race machine no one else has done .... on except for Stoner. Everyone has a ...... year including the great Rossi. I agree though now it is time for him to man up and impress Denning again. Finishing top ten consistently would do it on that POS if they can figure out how to keep the chain on...
Marco:
Youngest rider to win 125GP in Assen at 15
Youngest rider to win 250GP championship
Hopper:
2000 750 AMA supersport champ
2001 Formula extreme champ
GP
Marco: 250 Champion 2002 Hopkins: 15th
Marco: 15th in 2003 Hopkins: 17th
Marco: 12th in 2004 Hopkins: 16th
Marco: 2nd in 2005 Hopkins: 14th
Marco: 4th in 2006 Hopkins: 10th
Marco: 5th in 2007 Hopkins: 4th
Marco: 17th in 2008 Hopkins: 16th
Marco all the way. In no way did his disaster year at Ducati reflect his potential. Second in the championship did that. Top 5, 3 years in a row on non factory machines did that. No one wants to be the joke of the paddock and neither does he. Somehow it's okay for Rossi to whine and change tires (unheard of before) but not for Melandri to dislike a certain race machine no one else has done .... on except for Stoner. Everyone has a ...... year including the great Rossi. I agree though now it is time for him to man up and impress Denning again. Finishing top ten consistently would do it on that POS if they can figure out how to keep the chain on...
This sport is being run by a bunch of greedy monkeys.
The need to stop ....... with the rules. Set the rules and leave them in place. Let the teams build bikes, and develop them according to the rules. The thing that costs teams the most money is changing the rules.
The MotoGP series needs to be changed so the teams have some stake in the series, and share in some of the profits coming into the series. There is enough money coming in to the sport through TV and promotors to run the thing well, and provide some reasonable income back to the teams who are providing the entertainment.
If the business model stacks up, you will get privateer teams, you will get smaller factories like Aprilia, Augusta, etc.
How good would MotoGP be with 9 - 10 factory teams (like SBK), and then satelite/privateer teams from each of those factories.
These greedy pricks will kill this sport.
Back to Kawasaki.
Marco is an egg. Unless he has a different attitude to 2008, it will be a complete waste of time. They should pay him nothing, and put him on a bonus scheme, where he gets a race bonus for a top ten finish / top five / top three. If he rides around at the back on the basis the bike is ...., he gets nothing.
I actually think the basis of the Kawasaki bike is not too bad, and if someone really works hard to develop it, and then rides the thing into the ground, they can get up to around mid pack - especially if the Hondas will be rev limited. With everyone on same spec tyres, the bike might not be too bad (look at Suzuki)
This is actually a big opportunity for Marco. No one is expecting anything, because the bike is .... and there is no money for development. If he works hard and gets some decent results - better than what people expect, he will do his credibility some good.
The need to stop ....... with the rules. Set the rules and leave them in place. Let the teams build bikes, and develop them according to the rules. The thing that costs teams the most money is changing the rules.
The MotoGP series needs to be changed so the teams have some stake in the series, and share in some of the profits coming into the series. There is enough money coming in to the sport through TV and promotors to run the thing well, and provide some reasonable income back to the teams who are providing the entertainment.
If the business model stacks up, you will get privateer teams, you will get smaller factories like Aprilia, Augusta, etc.
How good would MotoGP be with 9 - 10 factory teams (like SBK), and then satelite/privateer teams from each of those factories.
These greedy pricks will kill this sport.
Back to Kawasaki.
Marco is an egg. Unless he has a different attitude to 2008, it will be a complete waste of time. They should pay him nothing, and put him on a bonus scheme, where he gets a race bonus for a top ten finish / top five / top three. If he rides around at the back on the basis the bike is ...., he gets nothing.
I actually think the basis of the Kawasaki bike is not too bad, and if someone really works hard to develop it, and then rides the thing into the ground, they can get up to around mid pack - especially if the Hondas will be rev limited. With everyone on same spec tyres, the bike might not be too bad (look at Suzuki)
This is actually a big opportunity for Marco. No one is expecting anything, because the bike is .... and there is no money for development. If he works hard and gets some decent results - better than what people expect, he will do his credibility some good.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 26 2009, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is it TRUE now?
I was joking as I am sure you realised; the crash articles usually seem to be factually correct if often slanted for the purpose of sensationalism, particularly the headlines. The current crashnet forum is another matter though.
I was joking as I am sure you realised; the crash articles usually seem to be factually correct if often slanted for the purpose of sensationalism, particularly the headlines. The current crashnet forum is another matter though.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 27 2009, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Between the 2 who would go with Hopper over Marco?
and useful stats that make good reading
Based on results and results alone as you have so clearly demonstrated one would be foolish not to go with Melandri, but are results everything?
IMO, MM showed a mental flaw last year, one of 'giving up' that IMO is not a good trait to have in this sport at this level. Whilst I believe that Hopkins lacks the final competitive edge (that MM does have when things are right) I think Hopkins woudl not give un in the manner demonstrated by MM in 2008.
This to me makes the choice exceedingly difficult if outside influences were not at play. Would you choose a rider who has proved race winning skills at MotoGP level but who drops the bundle and appears to go missing if things aren't perfect or exceedingly close. Or do you shoose a rider who may not be as talented (IMO) and may not be a race winner (now or ever) but will try each and every time, often to his own detriment and that of the medical teams.
For me, I do not see that Kawasaki as offering similarities to other bikes on which MM has performed (the V configuration Hondas) as he has struggled with inline configurations in the past (and yes, the Ducati does blow hi V configuration comfort away).
That all said and done I do have to say that I do feel for Hopkins in this case and have absolutely no doubt that MM's marketability has played strongly as to why Dorna pushed him as the rider. I feel as equally that Hopkins character (seen as less serious) and wages bill went against him as being considered in any seriousness.
Garry
and useful stats that make good reading
Based on results and results alone as you have so clearly demonstrated one would be foolish not to go with Melandri, but are results everything?
IMO, MM showed a mental flaw last year, one of 'giving up' that IMO is not a good trait to have in this sport at this level. Whilst I believe that Hopkins lacks the final competitive edge (that MM does have when things are right) I think Hopkins woudl not give un in the manner demonstrated by MM in 2008.
This to me makes the choice exceedingly difficult if outside influences were not at play. Would you choose a rider who has proved race winning skills at MotoGP level but who drops the bundle and appears to go missing if things aren't perfect or exceedingly close. Or do you shoose a rider who may not be as talented (IMO) and may not be a race winner (now or ever) but will try each and every time, often to his own detriment and that of the medical teams.
For me, I do not see that Kawasaki as offering similarities to other bikes on which MM has performed (the V configuration Hondas) as he has struggled with inline configurations in the past (and yes, the Ducati does blow hi V configuration comfort away).
That all said and done I do have to say that I do feel for Hopkins in this case and have absolutely no doubt that MM's marketability has played strongly as to why Dorna pushed him as the rider. I feel as equally that Hopkins character (seen as less serious) and wages bill went against him as being considered in any seriousness.
Garry
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Feb 26 2009, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Based on ...
Eloquent, as usual.
Eloquent, as usual.
The first (and only) time I saw MM in the flesh was at phillip island 2003.
Bayliss looked hot in practice but come the race MM takes him out at the hairpin on the first lap.
He's up there with Kurtis Roberts for talent in my books - except Kurtis always tried his arse off...
Bayliss looked hot in practice but come the race MM takes him out at the hairpin on the first lap.
He's up there with Kurtis Roberts for talent in my books - except Kurtis always tried his arse off...
Hummmn Laguna 2007? Anyone? Funny. Kurtis where the .... am I on the track Roberts? Bam! oh podium with a broken ankle vs DNF. Too funny.
Hopper 15th...just had to mention that.
Hopper 15th...just had to mention that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Feb 27 2009, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Based on results and results alone as you have so clearly demonstrated one would be foolish not to go with Melandri, but are results everything?
Garry
Sorry, results are everything and in this case history directly shows future potential. One championship, then after 3 years he was a contender for the MotoGP title constantly. Don't say that Hopper didn't give up. After the best 4 stroke Suzuki had ever built allowed him 4th position he left for Kawi. If you were putting up the dough for one rider you would have chosen the same guy. The Kawi might be trouble for him but it's better than racing a couch.
Garry
Sorry, results are everything and in this case history directly shows future potential. One championship, then after 3 years he was a contender for the MotoGP title constantly. Don't say that Hopper didn't give up. After the best 4 stroke Suzuki had ever built allowed him 4th position he left for Kawi. If you were putting up the dough for one rider you would have chosen the same guy. The Kawi might be trouble for him but it's better than racing a couch.
You know what:
I don't think it makes much difference which one of the two is riding the Kawasaki.
But I wish good luck to Melandri. Hopefully he and the bike will be competetive.
I don't think it makes much difference which one of the two is riding the Kawasaki.
But I wish good luck to Melandri. Hopefully he and the bike will be competetive.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Feb 27 2009, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, results are everything and in this case history directly shows future potential. One championship, then after 3 years he was a contender for the MotoGP title constantly. Don't say that Hopper didn't give up. After the best 4 stroke Suzuki had ever built allowed him 4th position he left for Kawi. If you were putting up the dough for one rider you would have chosen the same guy. The Kawi might be trouble for him but it's better than racing a couch.
Disagree that results should be the be all and end all in this case as the mental application must also be present.
One only needs to look at riders past who have had tremendous results but after some bad times (in some cases racing, others personal lives) they were unable to replicate anything like the past success (Spencer comes to mind).
IMO, Dorna (and I believe that it is Dorna at play here, not Kawasaki) have done what is right by and for Dorna only. They don't really care about Melandri and whether he is successful, although of course they certainly hope that he is as ultimately that will mean more publicity and with more publicity generally comes more input of dollars.
Now as to the question of who I would have put on the bike weighing up all apparent aspects of marketability within a targeted market (Europe as the US is already covered by Hayden with a bike change and CE) then the correct person got the ride. Simple as in my opinion.
Do I expect MM to be a success, hard to say as the Kawasaki was an absolute nail in 2008 and if some comments attributed to him are correct then one must already question his mental application.
Garry
Disagree that results should be the be all and end all in this case as the mental application must also be present.
One only needs to look at riders past who have had tremendous results but after some bad times (in some cases racing, others personal lives) they were unable to replicate anything like the past success (Spencer comes to mind).
IMO, Dorna (and I believe that it is Dorna at play here, not Kawasaki) have done what is right by and for Dorna only. They don't really care about Melandri and whether he is successful, although of course they certainly hope that he is as ultimately that will mean more publicity and with more publicity generally comes more input of dollars.
Now as to the question of who I would have put on the bike weighing up all apparent aspects of marketability within a targeted market (Europe as the US is already covered by Hayden with a bike change and CE) then the correct person got the ride. Simple as in my opinion.
Do I expect MM to be a success, hard to say as the Kawasaki was an absolute nail in 2008 and if some comments attributed to him are correct then one must already question his mental application.
Garry
