Kwak OUT?!?!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Dec 31 2008, 05:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My guess is that Hopper makes no longer financial sense for GPs, and Melandri was only suited for the 990 Honda.....

GPs will survive even if the field gets reduced further and the points system has to be adjusted to compensate for the lower rider numbers....but it will survive.....

It would be great to see a 30 bike field but then we get hacks and privateers just getting in the way. GPs needs to be about the best of the best, and if Kwak is not there then that says something about their bikes and the riders.


Just one more thing.....
How many of you bought a Kwak last year?
Me neither!
I agree that MotoGP is the pinnacle, the best of the best and Kawasaki certainly didn't fit that mold. Is their loss a big deal as far as the excitement of the race? No, not really. But the implications f their departure is enormous. I had this discussion with someone yesterday, for a time in the 70s/80s (before my time so don't quote me on exact dates) there were only two factory teams and Grand Prix managed to survive. That's all well and good but those were the days when if you had the right people you could go buy yourself a 500. Those days are long gone. How many guys like Jorge Martinez and Sito Pons are there who have tried for the past three years or so to merely lease bikes and have been told no.

MotoGP is only viable to the major manufacturers and if one walks away, no matter how insignificant they appear to be, it is a major loss for the series and certainly a sign of things to come.

And I sold my Kawasaki in 2008.

I'm so sick of hearing that it's the economy that caused Kawi to pull out.

........

they have to pay everyone whether they go racing or not. so, how does pulling out of GPs help their balance sheets? IT DOESN'T !!

Kawi's decision to leave GPs has way more to do with their performance and the knocking they take in the press every weekend than $.

And all you whiners saying that GPs are done OMG they're SOOOO OVER are obviously new to the game.

Both GPs and SBK have gone thru long seasons where certain manufacturers weren't represented.

were all of you crying as loud when basically every single manufacturer that wasn't ducati pulled out of SBK?

Is there a rule that requires a certain amount of bikes to run a series???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Dec 31 2008, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is there a rule that requires a certain amount of bikes to run a series???
I thought there was when I read the rules a while back. On a side note though I just read on the speed channel site that Marco Melandri is talking to a WSBK team. LOL I can't get over how far MOTO GP is ....... This sucks. THey should have stayed with the 990's and limit the bs that they all have been so eager to dev. So we shall see what happens here.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Dec 31 2008, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Both GPs and SBK have gone thru long seasons where certain manufacturers weren't represented.

The main reason for what is happening to our sport is the switch from two to four strokes. How can the factories back out now without devastating consequences to MotoGP? As Jumkie mentioned Roberts pulling out, this type of racing looks doomed. I want both, damnit!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Dec 31 2008, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is there a rule that requires a certain amount of bikes to run a series???


MotoGP needs a minimum of 18 bikes, it is a FOM requirement. Same way F1 needs a minimum of 20 cars on the grid.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sally @ Dec 31 2008, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>MotoGP needs a minimum of 18 bikes, it is a FOM requirement. Same way F1 needs a minimum of 20 cars on the grid.

link please

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Dec 31 2008, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is there a rule that requires a certain amount of bikes to run a series???

I don't know of any hard rule. The matter likely surfaces in the contracts between the tracks and race organizers, and FIM/Dorna. The host pays a fee for the circus to come to town, in exchange for a guarantee that a minimum number of clowns will be on hand to entertain.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Dec 31 2008, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm so sick of hearing that it's the economy that caused Kawi to pull out.

........

they have to pay everyone whether they go racing or not. so, how does pulling out of GPs help their balance sheets? IT DOESN'T !!

Kawi's decision to leave GPs has way more to do with their performance and the knocking they take in the press every weekend than $.
Sure they have to pay the riders, crew and engineers but they don't have to pay for the materials or labor for bikes, development of new parts and they don't have to pay the travel costs. From what I've read it takes about $15 million to run a MotoGP, I'm not sure if that is for a satellite or if it includes development. But look at Kawasaki. Hopkins earns $5 million (which is rumored to include money from Monster) annually, I would assume that Melandri is signed for roughly $1 million and the rest of the crew can likely be paid by $1 million, $2 million tops. Now I'm just throwing around soft numbers but my estimate is that they have at the most $8 million tied up in salary. Going off of that $15 million number (which I think is likely a satellite budget and doesn't include the development costs that a factory, like Kawasaki, incurs), Kawasaki save themselves about $7 million. Say what you want about Kawasaki and their effort, but it doesn't make sense for them to spend that kind of money to race MotoGP. Would they be more likely to stay in if they had the results of Honda, Yamaha or Ducati? Probably, but even Honda has question marks surrounding them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Dec 31 2008, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And all you whiners saying that GPs are done OMG they're SOOOO OVER are obviously new to the game.

Both GPs and SBK have gone thru long seasons where certain manufacturers weren't represented.

were all of you crying as loud when basically every single manufacturer that wasn't ducati pulled out of SBK?
But neither GP or WSBK have ever been handcuffed by the manufacturers like MotoGP is now. You think that if GP loses another manufacturer, the series will survive? Where will the bikes come from? Will Honda defy the rumors and rather than scale back their commitment, provide more bikes in 2009? The manufacturers make or break this series because no private team or company can afford to compete with a factory outfit. That's even ignoring the difficulty in securing bikes.

When WSBK was the Ducati Cup, manufacturers were still represented, they just didn't field factory efforts. All the manufacturers had bikes that private teams could buy and field, MotoGP won't have that luxury.

Recall your Business 101

There is a BIG difference between Cost and Price

There is a chance that a shock like this could actually lead to a change for good... Right? RIGHT? The idiots could finally realize that the series is going to get ...... and will make a radical change to fix things? Right? It could happen? Right?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Dec 31 2008, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Recall your Business 101

There is a BIG difference between Cost and Price
I'm a bit lost, are you inferring that the numbers are inflated and that because it is all in house, Kawasaki would pay far less than that amount?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Dec 31 2008, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm so sick of hearing that it's the economy that caused Kawi to pull out.

........

they have to pay everyone whether they go racing or not. so, how does pulling out of GPs help their balance sheets? IT DOESN'T !!

Kawi's decision to leave GPs has way more to do with their performance and the knocking they take in the press every weekend than $.

And all you whiners saying that GPs are done OMG they're SOOOO OVER are obviously new to the game.

Both GPs and SBK have gone thru long seasons where certain manufacturers weren't represented.

were all of you crying as loud when basically every single manufacturer that wasn't ducati pulled out of SBK?

Breathe homeboy.

Many companies are pulling back pending the real economic situation. Now I agree with your implication that they are using this as a way of saving face on pulling out of what has been a total mediocre effort in the series.

Oh, there is plenty $$ to be saved. The immediate contracts to riders and incidentals are only part of the operational expense throughout the year. So they will save some money.

As far as “crying” babies and hahaha; us “whiners” dude, it’s not the "end"; but, it’s a MAJOR CHANGE in what we will see in the near future. Grand Prix racing in its modern form was unsustainable. Now there will always be rich people to compete with hyper expensive toys, but there will need to be a major revision if it’s to remain viable for companies. Thats all we are saying. Again NOT over in the Armageddon sense, MotoGP will somehow continue, but NOT as we see it today. Comprende?

As far as us whining and crying when SBK was absent of many factories, uhm, I guess you must have forgotten the uproar and doomsday saying at the time. Geez how soon some people forget. However, now look what happened, they made major changes and guess what, the series became viable. Today people are praising WSBK as a legit series and NOT a unilateral Ducati cup.

So you may want to refresh your memory a bit. There was uproar, just like now, and no it’s not the end of the series, but it is the end of the unsustainable product on the grid we have seen in the last decade to present. Capisco?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Dec 31 2008, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>link please

this from the story about Honda maybe pulling out of MotoGp a few weeks back not found the official ruling on this yet

If Honda did pull out of MotoGP, it would have a devastating effect on the series. Honda currently provides 6 of the 19 bikes on the grid, and with FIM rules requiring a minimum of 15 entries for a world championship series, the prospects of the 2009 MotoGP season being run as a cup

we know that points are awarded down to 15th place so maybe that's the minimum number of entrants ?

^I'd say that 15 is the official minimum at the moment, makes sense. So, it looks like we are getting 17 bikes, unless there is a chance that someone brings another bike to the grid. Maybe Suzuki could actually have that 3rd one?

I'm just dreaming.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72596
"there is speculation that jorge martinez could be involved in a potential private bid to run the kawasaki bikes and operation - perhaps with some financial help from motogp organizers dorna."

i thought about this when i first read this news. martinez already had sponsors lined up for a team but kawa insisting on nakano as rider seemed to have killed it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Dec 30 2008, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tom, to say its not suprising due to there results is stupid thing to say... Its all about PR when putting a bike on the grid of the premier class..

I very much doubt they'd be quitting like this if they were serious front runners because the expense would be far more justifiable. Or do you think the difference between being last and first is negligble as far as PR is concerned?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jan 1 2009, 07:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i thought about this when i first read this news. martinez already had sponsors lined up for a team but kawa insisting on nakano as rider seemed to have killed it.

I thought the sponsors lined up were demanding a spanish rider? And what would this mean with Monster, shared team?

Kawasaki's retirement is the last, sad consequence of Ezpeleta and Dorna blindly following Honda's will for the last 9 years.

Yes, I'm referring to the 800cc class which raised the costs substantially and cut the private teams' chances and incentives. So now with the economic crysis loomig, no wonder the weakest players begin to withdraw. Now Dorna will be desperate to find one more bike to reach the required minimum of 18 bikes on the grid...! Ridiculous.

Cost reduction is the only way to keeping Moto GP alive.

The solution would be to go back to 990's and cut most electronic aids and all fuel limits. Those 2006 bikes are still quite efficient and just need a little dusting, plus adjusting their setups to the new tyres. There is a good number of these bikes and their spares still around, I'm sure.

I doubt they can have this kind of quick reactivity... The seriousness of the crysis would call for something like that though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 1 2009, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Kawasaki's retirement is the last, sad consequence of Ezpeleta and Dorna blindly following Honda's will for the last 9 years.

Yes, I'm referring to the 800cc class which raised the costs substantially and cut the private teams' chances and incentives. So now with the economic crysis loomig, no wonder the weakest players begin to withdraw. Now Dorna will be desperate to find one more bike to reach the required minimum of 18 bikes on the grid...! Ridiculous.

Cost reduction is the only way to keeping Moto GP alive.

The solution would be to go back to 990's and cut most electronic aids and all fuel limits. Those 2006 bikes are still quite efficient and just need a little dusting, plus adjusting their setups to the new tyres. There is a good number of these bikes and their spares still around, I'm sure.

I doubt they can have this kind of quick reactivity... The seriousness of the crysis would call for something like that though.

Wise words, +1