jordan in for 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 24 2008, 02:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Povol, you sometimes make an ..... out of yourself. The point of the debate was NOT whether Mladin was a great rider, but your stupid assessment that its Jordan to blame for the DMG/MIC mess. Bottom line, changes needed to be made in the AMA. Its was a ....... joke at the superbike level. It was a Suzuki cup. Interestingly, the biggest protesting voice for the changes comes from Suzuki. If they were so confident in their rider machine combo, then enter without stipulation. I'd say the only reason they haven't agreed to enter 09 is because they are actively trying to make a backroom deal to have some subtle rule changes so they can continue their loophole racing.

I'll take this bet if you can explain what changes DMG has made that Jordan has "whined" his way into getting.

Now when you explain this, then send me your address BEFORE we have a virtual shake to make the bet. So if you don't cough up the hundy, I can go personally and take it from your .... (If I recall, you had made it to Laguna and didn't bother for a meet up.) So, I'm NOT about to make a bet with you knowing that you'll cheap skate out of it.

Let me remind you of what you said:



Wow, so it was Jordan that "wiped out professional racing in America"! Holy ...., Jordan is like the Anti-Christ.

Now, start explaining......I'm waiting.

To start with, saying someone got the ball rolling towards this debacle is a long way from saying they are the only one to blame.You still have this delusion that somehow Suzuki is the bad guy here because they win, and that they, and they alone had some kind of control over the other factory teams that would allow them special treatment that no one else was afforded.Its a losers mentality to say someone is cheating when they are kicking your ....And lets not talk about making idiots of ourselves ,[actively trying to make a backroom deal to have some subtle rule changes so they can continue their loophole racing.] You keep bringing this kind of crap up but what kind of rule,would benefit ONLY Yoshimura Suzuki..Are you saying that there are, or has been rules that apply only to to the other 3, and Suzuki had free reign to do what ever they wanted.You seem to have time to write full page rants but you dont have the time or energy to come up with specifics,all you say is look them up.Your the one making mindless allegations that Suzuki somehow has an rules advantage,you look them up.And when you can get specific, let me know,until then put down the pipe,and your recollection will improve.I did not make it out to Laguna so it would have been rather hard to hook up.And by the way,you would just soon smack your momma as to come to East Tennessee and try to take 100 dollars from a country boy

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 24 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To start with, saying someone got the ball rolling towards this debacle is a long way from saying they are the only one to blame.

Ah, I'll consider this backpedaling as you got nothing.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 24 2008, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And by the way,you would just soon smack your momma as to come to East Tennessee and try to take 100 dollars from a country boy

Haha. You ever seen the movie 'My Cousin Vinny'?


"If I was to kick the .... out of you, do I get the money?"
5737:Got_my_money.jpg]

Anway Povol, I hate to argue with a fellow Hayden fan. But man you stuck foot in mouth placing 'any' blame on Jordan IMHO. I think you way off the mark since this man is both a fan of the sport, like us, and one in a position to make the competition have parity. Now I am one who does think Suzuki had some advantage, though difficult to prove. But by the same token, it would be just as hard for you to prove how Jordan has contributed or as you say "got the ball rolling" that lead to this debacle. Have you ever heard of Chaos Theory? Well it seems you are blaming the flight of a butterfly on causing a .... storm of a hurricane in the otherside of the world. So now what, I guess we just gotta disagree.

But keep in mind, Suzuki have stonewalled twice. As I remember, Barber also wanted the winning Suzuki for their museum, and they were told they couldn't afford it also. It seems to me they had something to hide. Now as much as I don't like Mat Mladin as a man, I recognize he was/is and extraordinary rider. As a matter of fact, Jordan tried to make a go at Spies (do you remember?) to get him to ride with him. So Jordan is making every effort to win a superbike title honestly, and your reaction is to take a giant .... on the man? Sorry, but I just don't get it.

Ok, brotha, I leave you with this peace offering from one Hayden fan to another:

5736:Hayden_Jordan.jpg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 24 2008, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah, I'll consider this backpedaling as you got nothing.




Haha. You ever seen the movie 'My Cousin Vinny'?


"If I was to kick the .... out of you, do I get the money?"
5737:Got_my_money.jpg]

Anway Povol, I hate to argue with a fellow Hayden fan. But man you stuck foot in mouth placing 'any' blame on Jordan IMHO. I think you way off the mark since this man is both a fan of the sport, like us, and one in a position to make the competition have parity. Now I am one who does think Suzuki had some advantage, though difficult to prove. But by the same token, it would be just as hard for you to prove how Jordan has contributed or as you say "got the ball rolling" that lead to this debacle. Have you ever heard of Chaos Theory? Well it seems you are blaming the flight of a butterfly on causing a .... storm of a hurricane in the otherside of the world. So now what, I guess we just gotta disagree.

But keep in mind, Suzuki have stonewalled twice. As I remember, Barber also wanted the winning Suzuki for their museum, and they were told they couldn't afford it also. It seems to me they had something to hide. Now as much as I don't like Mat Mladin as a man, I recognize he was/is and extraordinary rider. As a matter of fact, Jordan tried to make a go at Spies (do you remember?) to get him to ride with him. So Jordan is making every effort to win a superbike title honestly, and your reaction is to take a giant .... on the man? Sorry, but I just don't get it.

Ok, brotha, I leave you with this peace offering from one Hayden fan to another:

5736:Hayden_Jordan.jpg]
Lets just agree to disagree.What im saying is when Jordan got involved in AMA,everyone was excited that someone of that stature would definitley bring corporate dollars to a struggling series.Lets face it,Jordan is bigger than AMA racing.Bigger than the officials,bigger than the riders and as far as recognition, bigger than the teams themselves.When he started threatning to pull out because he couldnt spend with the factories,it got a lot of peoples attention and that is why i say he got the ball rolling.Someone with the pull of a Michael Jordan turns heads when he speaks and AMA racing didnt want to lose the most recognizable figure in the paddock.The AMA was and is a dysfunctional organization,but the competition didnt suffer from the rules package on a Superbike platform.It suffered because Matt Mladin never moved on and Honda gave up and Yamaha was wishy washy as was Kawasaki.You can go back and check, im not a Mladin or Suzuki fan,i just give credit where credit is due.Anyway,ive got to go carve a turkey and mash some potatoes.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY


ps, I saw My Cousin Vinny,one of my all time favorites.But it is a movie and a comedy at that.

You ever seen Next Of Kin

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 24 2008, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY


ps, I saw My Cousin Vinny,one of my all time favorites.But it is a movie and a comedy at that.

You ever seen Next Of Kin

Cheers brotha.

(Next of Kin with Swayze..haha, great movie.)

Good rant guys, entertaining reading!!

LINK

It would seem odd to release a guy to ride for the factory that is supposedly not competing in the series. Your thoughts. (BTW, Blake Young is one of my favorite rookies).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 8 2009, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>LINK

It would seem odd to release a guy to ride for the factory that is supposedly not competing in the series. Your thoughts. (BTW, Blake Young is one of my favorite rookies).


Thats 3 riders under contract,they are racing.I expect to see Kawasaki stick their tail between their legs and come crawling back also.It looks like the only one out is Honda.They probably told Honda,you go first buddy,we are right behind you.Uh just kidding buddy,see you in 2010.

So Suzuki is now filled up, Kawasaki has RLH under contract and could get Hopkins shipped to them in short order, Hodgson is under Honda contract. Did DMG really just call the manufacturers bluff? And win?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 9 2009, 09:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So Suzuki is now filled up, Kawasaki has RLH under contract and could get Hopkins shipped to them in short order, Hodgson is under Honda contract. Did DMG really just call the manufacturers bluff? And win?

Certainly looks that way.I still think Honda is out since they since they are the only one who actually came out and said so.Kawasaki and Suzuki were holding out for revised rules and got most of it except for the Kawasaki gas tank issue.But you never know,Kwak was back and forth on the GP issue and finally pulled the plug,they still might in AMA.

As far as Hopkins coming to AMA,depending on the wording of his contract{which i assume would be specific on what series he was being paid to ride in],it will probably be his choice. Do you ride for your check regardless of where it is,or do you sit and draw a check.Both have positives and negatives

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jan 9 2009, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Certainly looks that way.I still think Honda is out since they since they are the only one who actually came out and said so.Kawasaki and Suzuki were holding out for revised rules and got most of it except for the Kawasaki gas tank issue.But you never know,Kwak was back and forth on the GP issue and finally pulled the plug,they still might in AMA.
Yeah I have to wonder about that. Will they pay Hodge to sit the season out? Will they loan him out to Erion? Will Hodge want to ride for a satellite team? But I'm pretty confident that Suzuki and Kawasaki will field factory efforts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jan 9 2009, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As far as Hopkins coming to AMA,depending on the wording of his contract{which i assume would be specific on what series he was being paid to ride in],it will probably be his choice. Do you ride for your check regardless of where it is,or do you sit and draw a check.Both have positives and negatives
I've often thought about that as well, because I'm assuming his contract doesn't read "You will ride for Kawasaki in 2009 for X amount." What I would assume though is there would be some sort of dialogue between Hopkins and Kawasaki along the lines of riding in the US on the Monster team for the same salary. He won't get anywhere near that type of money anywhere else and he likely wouldn't get as good of a ride in WSBK. Putz around with a small WSBK making peanuts or go stateside and get your full check on the factory squad? Either way, he's going to end up hoping someone in GPs will want him back.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 9 2009, 06:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So Suzuki is now filled up, Kawasaki has RLH under contract and could get Hopkins shipped to them in short order, Hodgson is under Honda contract. Did DMG really just call the manufacturers bluff? And win?

No.

Edmonson went to Japan and talked to the people who actually run Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, & Kawasaki.

He probably calmly explained who he was and what he was doing. Like any sane persons with no emotional investment in the AMA, the bosses in Japan probably liked what Edmonson was trying to do.

The MIC are playing on someone else's bankroll so they can't bluff with money they don't have. I guess the MIC were bluffing about making a bluff. Edmonson probably convinced the Japanese bosses to cut their losses, the MIC don't get to play anymore.

They are going to sign on to Edmonson's master plan. It's cheaper and more likely to succeed. As long as he delivers for the fans, riders, sponsors, and promoters, I'll support him. If he uses his newfound power to forsake the fans, I'm gonna be pissed.

We're so close to fundamental reform in 2 wheeled American motorsports. If Edmonson screws up now, it's going to be twice as annoying as if the AMA had simply died.

People, don't get bogged down in the minute details. The big picture is the only thing that matters in this case.

Personally, I think Povol is right when he implies that Jordan whined to the AMA and put excessive pressure on Suzuki. Jordan will do anything to win, I'm sure he has been a mixed blessing for Suzuki.

HOWEVER,

The underlying fact in this whole mess is that Jordan approached Suzuki and asked that he be allowed to increase his investment and play a bigger role in promoting Suzuki's AMA effort. HE WAS TURNED AWAY BECAUSE SUZUKI HAVE AN ALLEGIANCE TO THEIR SPONSORS, YOSHIMURA SPECIFICALLY.

Haven't we all stated that over emphasis on major sponsors ruins racing? In theory, if Jordan had been allowed to run another factory outfit, there would have been 4 competitive SBK's each weekend. Perhaps that alone would have been enough to keep fans and sponsors interested. Suzuki added a 3rd Yosh bike for Tommy but it was too little too late.

Unfortunately, Suzuki cared more for the leaves but not for the roots of its racing efforts. Now the AMA has been sold to a group of people Suzuki do not want to do business with. It was avoidable.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 9 2009, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The underlying fact in this whole mess is that Jordan approached Suzuki and asked that he be allowed to increase his investment and play a bigger role in promoting Suzuki's AMA effort. HE WAS TURNED AWAY BECAUSE SUZUKI HAVE AN ALLEGIANCE TO THEIR SPONSORS, YOSHIMURA SPECIFICALLY.
I may be completely off with this, but doesn't Yosh have more invested in the team than merely being a sponsor? I thought they were essentially running the team for Suzuki. No?

If Suzuki runs in 2009 and Mladin makes a mockery of the series by winning 15 or more races [likely more] will the conspiracy theorist acknowledge that it wasnt the bike that skewed AMA racing for the last 10 years.If he doesnt break the record for most wins in a season,i will admit i was wrong and somehow Suzuki had an advantage in the rules that made them win.I personally believe without Spies around to keep him in check,this will be one the greatest years one rider has ever had,and boring at the same time.

If Suzuki runs in 2009 and Mladin makes a mockery of the series by winning 15 or more races [likely more] will the conspiracy theorist acknowledge that it wasnt the bike that skewed AMA racing for the last 10 years.If he doesnt break the record for most wins in a season,i will admit i was wrong and somehow Suzuki had an advantage in the rules that made them win.I personally believe without Spies around to keep him in check,this will be one the greatest years one rider has ever had,and boring at the same time.Oh,and here is a little something i ran across just now when i was looking for,of all things, a schedule for next year to see how many races were double headers.A little interview snippet

Evan Williams: Last summer, Michael Jordan gave a pretty pointed interview to some journalists from the paddock, and basically said "I can't buy what I want to buy to win Superbike races." Did that have any effect on what you guys are doing, or is that the mindset you had in changing the rules?

SYFAN: I think Roger, that's always been his goal, is to try to - I hate the term, but level the playing field. To try to make it - to try to give hope to these teams that may not be directly connected with a factory, and be able to show up and roll in here and feel like they have an opportunity to get on the box. I'm sure Michael's comments went a long way. At the time, things were starting to roll in this direction. I'm sure it helped.

FRASIER: And Roger did go to meet with Michael, and they have spoken a couple of times. That doesn't mean that there's anything set. But certainly, his input made a difference, and I think what Jordan said was extremely polarizing. When you talk to people about those comments, they either strongly agree or strongly disagree. It's kind of interesting. You don't get very many moderate responses to the Michael Jordan suggestion. But I think everybody understands that his team has a lot of value in terms of its presentation and what it could represent in the future.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jan 9 2009, 10:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I may be completely off with this, but doesn't Yosh have more invested in the team than merely being a sponsor? I thought they were essentially running the team for Suzuki. No?


That is my understanding.