Not only is Jordan still in, he's racing two teams and he has a new title sponsor (US National Guard).
Yesterday he was done, today he has 2 teams and a new sponsor who also runs with NASCAR.
Something isn't adding up. I suspect its the tabloid journos.
Yesterday he was done, today he has 2 teams and a new sponsor who also runs with NASCAR.
Something isn't adding up. I suspect its the tabloid journos.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 18 2008, 05:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well that is a bit of good news. I'm rooting for Jordan. Also, check this out: LINK
So its not all doom and gloom, eh.
If the factory teams and riders are not there,i could give a rats ... who shows up or who wins.It wont mean anything.It would be like me showing up for the Olympics after all the other athletes were killed in a plane crash and win the 100 meter dash.
PS
Im not rooting for Jordan because it was his bitching and moaning that got this ball rolling that wiped out professional racing in America.
So its not all doom and gloom, eh.
If the factory teams and riders are not there,i could give a rats ... who shows up or who wins.It wont mean anything.It would be like me showing up for the Olympics after all the other athletes were killed in a plane crash and win the 100 meter dash.
PS
Im not rooting for Jordan because it was his bitching and moaning that got this ball rolling that wiped out professional racing in America.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 18 2008, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If the factory teams and riders are not there,i could give a rats ... who shows up or who wins.It wont mean anything.It would be like me showing up for the Olympics after all the other athletes were killed in a plane crash and win the 100 meter dash.
PS
Im not rooting for Jordan because it was his bitching and moaning that got this ball rolling that wiped out professional racing in America.
Povol, you are being way to harsh on Jordan. Tell me something, do you think the AMA needed profound changes before DMG? (I'm assuming you said yes.) Well this is what Jordan spoke about, the inequity and backward ways the AMA was run. He didn't count that some goon and the ego driven MIC executives would go all ape .....
Remind yourself what he said, it was all about productive changes to improve the AMA that us fans new needed to change. Edmud & Co, along with his nemesis Blank took it to a level not seen since 3rd grade recess politics and screwed up, not Jordan.
Jordan, if anything, is to be commended. Don't you remember he tried to get the best machine out there to compete with factory Suzuki? Now what was Suzuki's response? Oh yeah, you can't afford it. Uhm, Jordan has more money than God. In short, there needed to be changes. The AMA was a farce and a ...... show. Jordan spoke out when few had the balls. Don't blame him that the powers that be mucked it all up.
PS
Im not rooting for Jordan because it was his bitching and moaning that got this ball rolling that wiped out professional racing in America.
Povol, you are being way to harsh on Jordan. Tell me something, do you think the AMA needed profound changes before DMG? (I'm assuming you said yes.) Well this is what Jordan spoke about, the inequity and backward ways the AMA was run. He didn't count that some goon and the ego driven MIC executives would go all ape .....
Remind yourself what he said, it was all about productive changes to improve the AMA that us fans new needed to change. Edmud & Co, along with his nemesis Blank took it to a level not seen since 3rd grade recess politics and screwed up, not Jordan.
Jordan, if anything, is to be commended. Don't you remember he tried to get the best machine out there to compete with factory Suzuki? Now what was Suzuki's response? Oh yeah, you can't afford it. Uhm, Jordan has more money than God. In short, there needed to be changes. The AMA was a farce and a ...... show. Jordan spoke out when few had the balls. Don't blame him that the powers that be mucked it all up.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 18 2008, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Im not rooting for Jordan because it was his bitching and moaning that got this ball rolling that wiped out professional racing in America.
I think you're being to harsh as well.
Jordan is notoriously competitive and I can definitely see him putting pressure on the AMA to create a scenario that would allow him to win in perpetuity, but it is obvious that the AMA had little control over the manufacturers.
When a marketing mogul and motorcycle enthusiast like Jordan says he wants to invest more heavily in the Suzuki organization and the sport, but he's turned away, something isn't functioning properly.
The AMA was sick and dying. The manufacturers were not interested in the fans, the participants, the track owners, or American motorcycling in general. Like ganglords, they were only interested with protecting their piece of turf and looting it for every penny it would produce. Eventually, it was going to implode.
Why else would the AMA actually divest in its own product?
How else could Edmonson (a seemingly unlikeable egotist) win support from a majority of the riders, the privateers, the track owners, and many of the sponsors?
What has happened to the AMA is regrettable, but look at what we had. We had great talent riding amazingly expensive bikes in an inaccessible environment to fans, motorcycle enthusiasts, sponsors, and the media.
The AMA was glorified club racing and it has been for many years. It needs a few common sense business adaptations that allow the MIC members to do what they want while providing a sport that can be invested in by other parties as well. They raced when they wanted to. They didn't really focus on safety unless somebody got hurt. If they wanted to cheat, they cheated. If they wanted to violate the spirit of the rules, they did.
The MIC like to think they are the only people that matter. A good series requires fans, promoters, venue owners, sponsors, riders, governance, and media. Unfortunately, the manufacturers always seem to learn the hard way. Look what Honda have done to MotoGP.
I think you're being to harsh as well.
Jordan is notoriously competitive and I can definitely see him putting pressure on the AMA to create a scenario that would allow him to win in perpetuity, but it is obvious that the AMA had little control over the manufacturers.
When a marketing mogul and motorcycle enthusiast like Jordan says he wants to invest more heavily in the Suzuki organization and the sport, but he's turned away, something isn't functioning properly.
The AMA was sick and dying. The manufacturers were not interested in the fans, the participants, the track owners, or American motorcycling in general. Like ganglords, they were only interested with protecting their piece of turf and looting it for every penny it would produce. Eventually, it was going to implode.
Why else would the AMA actually divest in its own product?
How else could Edmonson (a seemingly unlikeable egotist) win support from a majority of the riders, the privateers, the track owners, and many of the sponsors?
What has happened to the AMA is regrettable, but look at what we had. We had great talent riding amazingly expensive bikes in an inaccessible environment to fans, motorcycle enthusiasts, sponsors, and the media.
The AMA was glorified club racing and it has been for many years. It needs a few common sense business adaptations that allow the MIC members to do what they want while providing a sport that can be invested in by other parties as well. They raced when they wanted to. They didn't really focus on safety unless somebody got hurt. If they wanted to cheat, they cheated. If they wanted to violate the spirit of the rules, they did.
The MIC like to think they are the only people that matter. A good series requires fans, promoters, venue owners, sponsors, riders, governance, and media. Unfortunately, the manufacturers always seem to learn the hard way. Look what Honda have done to MotoGP.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Dec 19 2008, 09:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When a marketing mogul and motorcycle enthusiast like Jordan says he wants to invest more heavily in the Suzuki organization and the sport, but he's turned away, something isn't functioning properly.
....... eh. You got that right!
....... eh. You got that right!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 19 2008, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>....... eh. You got that right!
I obviously just dont get it.I guess its the new world thinking that came to be after i grew up, where everybody has to be equal to feel good about themselves.A race team spends millions of dollars to design,research, and develope,under the same set of rules afforded to everyone,a race bike.They go about their business of winning,WINNING GUYS,that what the .... sports is supposed to be about.Now,they are expected to turn around and let the competitors just buy what they spent 1/3 of their ....... life perfecting..........Guys,life is one big competition.Would a drug company that developed a cure for cancer sell the formula to other drug companies so everyone could share in the waelth.Of course they wouldnt,they would slap a million patents on it and capitalize and bury the competition.Let Jordan spend 1/3 of his life and 10's of millions of dollars in developing, to get what he wants.Let him hire the best rider and pay him 3 million dollars and then pay a new young kid 2 million.No,what Jordan wants is dumbed down racing where he can win a championship on the cheap and stroke his inflated ego.Because we all know that the great Michael has never failed at anything. Was the AMA ...... up,yes.Is it still ...... up,yes. Im still waiting for someone to tell me what magic piece that Yoshimura could have sold Jordan,that would have turned Aaron Yates into Ben Spies or Mat Mladin.Ive got a little secret,PSSSST,it wasnt the bike.If Mladin and Spies had not been around the last 2-3 years,we would have sworn it was the best racing on the planet.4-5 guys fighting for wins every week and the points coming down to the last race.
I obviously just dont get it.I guess its the new world thinking that came to be after i grew up, where everybody has to be equal to feel good about themselves.A race team spends millions of dollars to design,research, and develope,under the same set of rules afforded to everyone,a race bike.They go about their business of winning,WINNING GUYS,that what the .... sports is supposed to be about.Now,they are expected to turn around and let the competitors just buy what they spent 1/3 of their ....... life perfecting..........Guys,life is one big competition.Would a drug company that developed a cure for cancer sell the formula to other drug companies so everyone could share in the waelth.Of course they wouldnt,they would slap a million patents on it and capitalize and bury the competition.Let Jordan spend 1/3 of his life and 10's of millions of dollars in developing, to get what he wants.Let him hire the best rider and pay him 3 million dollars and then pay a new young kid 2 million.No,what Jordan wants is dumbed down racing where he can win a championship on the cheap and stroke his inflated ego.Because we all know that the great Michael has never failed at anything. Was the AMA ...... up,yes.Is it still ...... up,yes. Im still waiting for someone to tell me what magic piece that Yoshimura could have sold Jordan,that would have turned Aaron Yates into Ben Spies or Mat Mladin.Ive got a little secret,PSSSST,it wasnt the bike.If Mladin and Spies had not been around the last 2-3 years,we would have sworn it was the best racing on the planet.4-5 guys fighting for wins every week and the points coming down to the last race.
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Povol, I'm no AMA expert but it is my understanding that Suzuki has been using illegal bits (mostly electronic traction control aids) for some time now.
As Lex said, "If they wanted to cheat, they cheated. If they wanted to violate the spirit of the rules, they did."
If your Jordan-hatin' glasses don't let you see the truth, c'est la vie...
As Lex said, "If they wanted to cheat, they cheated. If they wanted to violate the spirit of the rules, they did."
If your Jordan-hatin' glasses don't let you see the truth, c'est la vie...
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Dec 20 2008, 08:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Povol, I'm no AMA expert but it is my understanding that Suzuki has been using illegal bits (mostly electronic traction control aids) for some time now.
As Lex said, "If they wanted to cheat, they cheated. If they wanted to violate the spirit of the rules, they did."
If your Jordan-hatin' glasses don't let you see the truth, c'est la vie...
So i guess Suzuki was the only one cheating.If Suzuki was cheating and had the green light to do it,you can bet your ... Honda,Yamaha,and Kawasaki were cheating also.I mean come on, do you really think the other big 3 would have stood by and got buried for the last 8 years and never said a word or cheated themselves.How come no one is clamoring for Yamaha parts,or Honda parts,or Kawsaki parts.I tell you why,the part that Suzuki had that no other team had was attached in between the seat and the clip ons and they knew it.And for the last time,Suzuki's traction control was NOT illegal.We have been over this at least 10 times.The rule stated no wheel sensors and Suzuki never used wheel sensors.Everyone knew what they were doing,it wasnt a secret,you could hear it at the track.
Tom Houseworth, crew chief for Yoshimura Suzuki’s Ben Spies: “I was a little surprised that the AMA did it so quick, and it’s kind of weird they did it now, because truthfully, we can’t put traction control on the bike right now because we don’t have it. We can’t just mount up a front-wheel speed sensor and do it the traditional way—I don’t think anyone has it. If they do, good on them, but we’re just doing electronically the same thing that your Audi, your Lexus, or any of those things have.
“Only system I’ve been working on is trying to make sure Ben happy and the bikes the way he wants it. I’m sure you’ve heard our bikes going around the track and it kills the ignition a bit, but the rules state you can’t have traction control with the front-wheel sensor and we didn’t, and we don’t. And if we do it in the future, it’s going to be a while. We’d have to test at pretty much every track and get data at every track to make the stuff work. And for now, the bikes as pretty strong as they are.”
Oh by the way,once the AMA said go for it on traction control,the severity of the beatings got worse.I dont really hate Jordan,i just lump him in with the other whining .......s that didnt man up,go to work and try to beat the competition,they simply gave up like Honda did 3 years ago or called for new rules.
Dont forget,Aaron used to be Mladins team mate and he suffered the same fate then as he does now.
HE CANNOT BEAT MLADIN. Same bike,different bike,stock bike,Superbike,dont matter.If Mladin is racing this year,it will be worse than last year.At least we had 2 guys splitting the wins last year.Until the next Ben Spies comes along,or Mladin hangs it up you will have the same end result if they are racing Vespa's.
As Lex said, "If they wanted to cheat, they cheated. If they wanted to violate the spirit of the rules, they did."
If your Jordan-hatin' glasses don't let you see the truth, c'est la vie...
So i guess Suzuki was the only one cheating.If Suzuki was cheating and had the green light to do it,you can bet your ... Honda,Yamaha,and Kawasaki were cheating also.I mean come on, do you really think the other big 3 would have stood by and got buried for the last 8 years and never said a word or cheated themselves.How come no one is clamoring for Yamaha parts,or Honda parts,or Kawsaki parts.I tell you why,the part that Suzuki had that no other team had was attached in between the seat and the clip ons and they knew it.And for the last time,Suzuki's traction control was NOT illegal.We have been over this at least 10 times.The rule stated no wheel sensors and Suzuki never used wheel sensors.Everyone knew what they were doing,it wasnt a secret,you could hear it at the track.
Tom Houseworth, crew chief for Yoshimura Suzuki’s Ben Spies: “I was a little surprised that the AMA did it so quick, and it’s kind of weird they did it now, because truthfully, we can’t put traction control on the bike right now because we don’t have it. We can’t just mount up a front-wheel speed sensor and do it the traditional way—I don’t think anyone has it. If they do, good on them, but we’re just doing electronically the same thing that your Audi, your Lexus, or any of those things have.
“Only system I’ve been working on is trying to make sure Ben happy and the bikes the way he wants it. I’m sure you’ve heard our bikes going around the track and it kills the ignition a bit, but the rules state you can’t have traction control with the front-wheel sensor and we didn’t, and we don’t. And if we do it in the future, it’s going to be a while. We’d have to test at pretty much every track and get data at every track to make the stuff work. And for now, the bikes as pretty strong as they are.”
Oh by the way,once the AMA said go for it on traction control,the severity of the beatings got worse.I dont really hate Jordan,i just lump him in with the other whining .......s that didnt man up,go to work and try to beat the competition,they simply gave up like Honda did 3 years ago or called for new rules.
Dont forget,Aaron used to be Mladins team mate and he suffered the same fate then as he does now.
HE CANNOT BEAT MLADIN. Same bike,different bike,stock bike,Superbike,dont matter.If Mladin is racing this year,it will be worse than last year.At least we had 2 guys splitting the wins last year.Until the next Ben Spies comes along,or Mladin hangs it up you will have the same end result if they are racing Vespa's.
Like anything else, the truth is in the middle.
You say that Jordan should develop his own stuff. In some ways, he is. He had farmed out his superbike stuff on his own dime. Suzuki only helped him with Superstock.
What exactly was he supposed to develop on his own? He wanted to do what everyone else did. Buy anything he could afford to make himself as competitive as possible. I agree that there is a line that should be drawn, but where should it be? Exhaust systems? FI Programers? Triple clamps? Or should it go a lot farther?
If everyone had to spend the millions of dollars like you said to develop their own stuff, then how many bikes will be on the grid? Not very many.
He wasn't asking for everyone to have the same stuff. He just said that everyone should be allowed to have access to the same stuff. He didn't want it given to him, he just wanted them to put a price on it.
This isn't GP racing where everything is propietary. This is Superbike racing. People don't have the budgets to develop their own stuff. They have ALWAYS bought stuff and bolted it on their bikes.
Even in GP racing, are all of the satelite teams supposed to develop their own stuff? Hell no. They get their stuff from the factories.
You say that Jordan should develop his own stuff. In some ways, he is. He had farmed out his superbike stuff on his own dime. Suzuki only helped him with Superstock.
What exactly was he supposed to develop on his own? He wanted to do what everyone else did. Buy anything he could afford to make himself as competitive as possible. I agree that there is a line that should be drawn, but where should it be? Exhaust systems? FI Programers? Triple clamps? Or should it go a lot farther?
If everyone had to spend the millions of dollars like you said to develop their own stuff, then how many bikes will be on the grid? Not very many.
He wasn't asking for everyone to have the same stuff. He just said that everyone should be allowed to have access to the same stuff. He didn't want it given to him, he just wanted them to put a price on it.
This isn't GP racing where everything is propietary. This is Superbike racing. People don't have the budgets to develop their own stuff. They have ALWAYS bought stuff and bolted it on their bikes.
Even in GP racing, are all of the satelite teams supposed to develop their own stuff? Hell no. They get their stuff from the factories.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cankles @ Dec 20 2008, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Like anything else, the truth is in the middle.
You say that Jordan should develop his own stuff. In some ways, he is. He had farmed out his superbike stuff on his own dime. Suzuki only helped him with Superstock.
What exactly was he supposed to develop on his own? He wanted to do what everyone else did. Buy anything he could afford to make himself as competitive as possible. I agree that there is a line that should be drawn, but where should it be? Exhaust systems? FI Programers? Triple clamps? Or should it go a lot farther?
If everyone had to spend the millions of dollars like you said to develop their own stuff, then how many bikes will be on the grid? Not very many.
He wasn't asking for everyone to have the same stuff. He just said that everyone should be allowed to have access to the same stuff. He didn't want it given to him, he just wanted them to put a price on it.
This isn't GP racing where everything is propietary. This is Superbike racing. People don't have the budgets to develop their own stuff. They have ALWAYS bought stuff and bolted it on their bikes.
Even in GP racing, are all of the satelite teams supposed to develop their own stuff? Hell no. They get their stuff from the factories.
You are right,this is not GP and the bikes are not that exotic.I mean they have to run the stock crank for christ sake.Look at the rules package,what in the world could have been on a an AMA Superbike that Jordan couldnt purchase from a variety of after market performance vendors..Jordan wanted in an instant what Yoshimura worked for decades to establish.Its all about me and now these days.I want it all and i want it now.The one thing in this whole argument that gets lost is its all about Suzuki.How does the Jordan bikes run with all the other factory bikes,pretty damn even.Yates actually finished ahead of Hayden on the Yoshimura Suzuki in 07.Not only did he finish ahead of one of the unbeatable Yosh Suzuki's,he finished ahead of one of the factory Honda's and both factory Kawasaki's and both factory Yamaha's.All of those guys have one thing in common,including the guy on the other Yoshimura Suzuki,they all finished close to 200 points down to the top 2 Yoshi bikes.Point is,the bikes are not all that different,the riders are.With Spies and Mladin out of the picture,the points race would have looked like this
#1 Zemke 468 points
#2 Yates 465 points
# 3 Hayden 454 points
A factory Honda
A sattelite Suzuki
A factory Suzuki.
You say that Jordan should develop his own stuff. In some ways, he is. He had farmed out his superbike stuff on his own dime. Suzuki only helped him with Superstock.
What exactly was he supposed to develop on his own? He wanted to do what everyone else did. Buy anything he could afford to make himself as competitive as possible. I agree that there is a line that should be drawn, but where should it be? Exhaust systems? FI Programers? Triple clamps? Or should it go a lot farther?
If everyone had to spend the millions of dollars like you said to develop their own stuff, then how many bikes will be on the grid? Not very many.
He wasn't asking for everyone to have the same stuff. He just said that everyone should be allowed to have access to the same stuff. He didn't want it given to him, he just wanted them to put a price on it.
This isn't GP racing where everything is propietary. This is Superbike racing. People don't have the budgets to develop their own stuff. They have ALWAYS bought stuff and bolted it on their bikes.
Even in GP racing, are all of the satelite teams supposed to develop their own stuff? Hell no. They get their stuff from the factories.
You are right,this is not GP and the bikes are not that exotic.I mean they have to run the stock crank for christ sake.Look at the rules package,what in the world could have been on a an AMA Superbike that Jordan couldnt purchase from a variety of after market performance vendors..Jordan wanted in an instant what Yoshimura worked for decades to establish.Its all about me and now these days.I want it all and i want it now.The one thing in this whole argument that gets lost is its all about Suzuki.How does the Jordan bikes run with all the other factory bikes,pretty damn even.Yates actually finished ahead of Hayden on the Yoshimura Suzuki in 07.Not only did he finish ahead of one of the unbeatable Yosh Suzuki's,he finished ahead of one of the factory Honda's and both factory Kawasaki's and both factory Yamaha's.All of those guys have one thing in common,including the guy on the other Yoshimura Suzuki,they all finished close to 200 points down to the top 2 Yoshi bikes.Point is,the bikes are not all that different,the riders are.With Spies and Mladin out of the picture,the points race would have looked like this
#1 Zemke 468 points
#2 Yates 465 points
# 3 Hayden 454 points
A factory Honda
A sattelite Suzuki
A factory Suzuki.
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Povol, buddy, you have completely missed this one. Sorry, but I don't have the energy to explain..and really, it seems you have made up your mind. But I think you’re wrong on this one pal. Jordan is not the enemy! Jordan is not a motorcycle company. This is racing. Based on your logic then there would only be 8 competitive machines and privateers/satellites be damned…that is because they would NEVER be in a position to develop beyond the manufacture’s propriety. Oh, and you have waaay tooo much faith in the impartiality of the manufactures as it relates to the series that was. Just cuz you can’t prove there aren't cheats doesn’t mean they aren’t doing it. The other brands have actually tried to even out the playing field, but it didn’t happen. The only smart team was Ducati, once they saw it was stacked, they said, see ya.
Again, Jordan is not the enemy. Blaming Jordan is a bit like blaming the person calling 911 at the scene of a disaster! You want to blame somebody for this debacle? Here you go: DMG & MIC, Suzuki first, then Honda, Kawasaki, and Yamaha.
Again, Jordan is not the enemy. Blaming Jordan is a bit like blaming the person calling 911 at the scene of a disaster! You want to blame somebody for this debacle? Here you go: DMG & MIC, Suzuki first, then Honda, Kawasaki, and Yamaha.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 21 2008, 02:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are right,this is not GP and the bikes are not that exotic.I mean they have to run the stock crank for christ sake.Look at the rules package,what in the world could have been on a an AMA Superbike that Jordan couldnt purchase from a variety of after market performance vendors..Jordan wanted in an instant what Yoshimura worked for decades to establish.Its all about me and now these days.I want it all and i want it now.The one thing in this whole argument that gets lost is its all about Suzuki.How does the Jordan bikes run with all the other factory bikes,pretty damn even.Yates actually finished ahead of Hayden on the Yoshimura Suzuki in 07.Not only did he finish ahead of one of the unbeatable Yosh Suzuki's,he finished ahead of one of the factory Honda's and both factory Kawasaki's and both factory Yamaha's.All of those guys have one thing in common,including the guy on the other Yoshimura Suzuki,they all finished close to 200 points down to the top 2 Yoshi bikes.Point is,the bikes are not all that different,the riders are.With Spies and Mladin out of the picture,the points race would have looked like this
#1 Zemke 468 points
#2 Yates 465 points
# 3 Hayden 454 points
A factory Honda
A sattelite Suzuki
A factory Suzuki.
I agree with you on how things are in todays society, believe me, I do. But this does not relate to that. The main issue is where do you draw the line on what teams like Yosh should be allowed to sell. Yosh sells tons of stuff to other racers. That's how they make their money. Like I said, Jordon's team actually had a motor shop build their motors. I didn't know how many Yosh parts they used, but it's not like Jordon bought a ton of Yosh parts and bolted them in. I wish I could remember what part it was that he wanted to buy, that they said no too. It was some kind of chassis part.
One way they used to keep casts down was have a claiming rule. For a set amout, people could buy any part off the winning bike. I don't know if they still have that, or not. That would be a good way to keep the costs down.
#1 Zemke 468 points
#2 Yates 465 points
# 3 Hayden 454 points
A factory Honda
A sattelite Suzuki
A factory Suzuki.
I agree with you on how things are in todays society, believe me, I do. But this does not relate to that. The main issue is where do you draw the line on what teams like Yosh should be allowed to sell. Yosh sells tons of stuff to other racers. That's how they make their money. Like I said, Jordon's team actually had a motor shop build their motors. I didn't know how many Yosh parts they used, but it's not like Jordon bought a ton of Yosh parts and bolted them in. I wish I could remember what part it was that he wanted to buy, that they said no too. It was some kind of chassis part.
One way they used to keep casts down was have a claiming rule. For a set amout, people could buy any part off the winning bike. I don't know if they still have that, or not. That would be a good way to keep the costs down.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 21 2008, 01:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Povol, buddy, you have completely missed this one. Sorry, but I don't have the energy to explain..and really, it seems you have made up your mind. But I think you’re wrong on this one pal. Jordan is not the enemy! Jordan is not a motorcycle company. This is racing. Based on your logic then there would only be 8 competitive machines and privateers/satellites be damned…that is because they would NEVER be in a position to develop beyond the manufacture’s propriety. Oh, and you have waaay tooo much faith in the impartiality of the manufactures as it relates to the series that was. Just cuz you can’t prove there aren't cheats doesn’t mean they aren’t doing it. The other brands have actually tried to even out the playing field, but it didn’t happen. The only smart team was Ducati, once they saw it was stacked, they said, see ya.
Again, Jordan is not the enemy. Blaming Jordan is a bit like blaming the person calling 911 at the scene of a disaster! You want to blame somebody for this debacle? Here you go: DMG & MIC, Suzuki first, then Honda, Kawasaki, and Yamaha.
Name me one Superbike,WSBK Moto GP,Superstock,Supersport race you have seen in your life where there was 8 bikes dicing for a win.It would be great but its not realistic. Since the norm is one bike all by himself on the last lap and sometimes 2,rare occasion 3.So to answer your question,Yes 8 factory bikes or 10 with Ducati is plenty for a show at the front.Satellite teams and privateers have a place in pro racing and that place for a sattelite team is to take factory money,help them develope bikes and future factory riders.Privateers are field fillers,period.They are decent riders who have jobs and want to go out and have fun on the weekends.They are the caliber rider you could find anywhere in the country meeting up at cracker barrel for a Sunday ride.I keep asking what Jordan wanted from Yosh and someone said supension part or parts.Yoshimura is not in the suspension business, Suzuki uses Showa suspension components.
Showa is an Honda Corp affiliate.So we have the Honda Corp selling unobtainable parts to Suzuki.That is a conspiracy.Guys,you can blame who you want,in any order you want but i will be willing to bet anyone on here 100.00 dollars,If Mladin races next year,he will win more races than he did in 2008 and will have the title wrapped up with 2 races to go.Thats how confident i am in my argument that it is Matt Mladin and Ben Spies talents that have skewed AMA Superbike in recent years.Not some conspiracy that Suzuki is cheating and everyone else is powerless to stop the juggernaut.That kind of talk is usually reserved for Honda when they are winning everything. ,Honda this,Honda that,Honda makes the rules,Honda buys up the best riders,Honda owns racing ,Honda makes the rules Honda owns the world blah Blah.I hate Honda,.... Honda,I wouldnt own a Honda.Any of that .... sound familiar from race fans the last 30 years.Now Suzuki is on a roll and the ........ flows down their side of the mountain.
Again, Jordan is not the enemy. Blaming Jordan is a bit like blaming the person calling 911 at the scene of a disaster! You want to blame somebody for this debacle? Here you go: DMG & MIC, Suzuki first, then Honda, Kawasaki, and Yamaha.
Name me one Superbike,WSBK Moto GP,Superstock,Supersport race you have seen in your life where there was 8 bikes dicing for a win.It would be great but its not realistic. Since the norm is one bike all by himself on the last lap and sometimes 2,rare occasion 3.So to answer your question,Yes 8 factory bikes or 10 with Ducati is plenty for a show at the front.Satellite teams and privateers have a place in pro racing and that place for a sattelite team is to take factory money,help them develope bikes and future factory riders.Privateers are field fillers,period.They are decent riders who have jobs and want to go out and have fun on the weekends.They are the caliber rider you could find anywhere in the country meeting up at cracker barrel for a Sunday ride.I keep asking what Jordan wanted from Yosh and someone said supension part or parts.Yoshimura is not in the suspension business, Suzuki uses Showa suspension components.
Showa is an Honda Corp affiliate.So we have the Honda Corp selling unobtainable parts to Suzuki.That is a conspiracy.Guys,you can blame who you want,in any order you want but i will be willing to bet anyone on here 100.00 dollars,If Mladin races next year,he will win more races than he did in 2008 and will have the title wrapped up with 2 races to go.Thats how confident i am in my argument that it is Matt Mladin and Ben Spies talents that have skewed AMA Superbike in recent years.Not some conspiracy that Suzuki is cheating and everyone else is powerless to stop the juggernaut.That kind of talk is usually reserved for Honda when they are winning everything. ,Honda this,Honda that,Honda makes the rules,Honda buys up the best riders,Honda owns racing ,Honda makes the rules Honda owns the world blah Blah.I hate Honda,.... Honda,I wouldnt own a Honda.Any of that .... sound familiar from race fans the last 30 years.Now Suzuki is on a roll and the ........ flows down their side of the mountain.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cankles @ Dec 21 2008, 07:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with you on how things are in todays society, believe me, I do. But this does not relate to that. The main issue is where do you draw the line on what teams like Yosh should be allowed to sell. Yosh sells tons of stuff to other racers. That's how they make their money. Like I said, Jordon's team actually had a motor shop build their motors. I didn't know how many Yosh parts they used, but it's not like Jordon bought a ton of Yosh parts and bolted them in. I wish I could remember what part it was that he wanted to buy, that they said no too. It was some kind of chassis part.
One way they used to keep casts down was have a claiming rule. For a set amout, people could buy any part off the winning bike. I don't know if they still have that, or not. That would be a good way to keep the costs down.
Im not sure if they use the claiming rule anymore in AMA or not, but the new Moto2 600's have implemented the rule in that new series for the motor only.
One way they used to keep casts down was have a claiming rule. For a set amout, people could buy any part off the winning bike. I don't know if they still have that, or not. That would be a good way to keep the costs down.
Im not sure if they use the claiming rule anymore in AMA or not, but the new Moto2 600's have implemented the rule in that new series for the motor only.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 22 2008, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Name me one Superbike,WSBK Moto GP,Superstock,Supersport race you have seen in your life where there was 8 bikes dicing for a win.It would be great but its not realistic. Since the norm is one bike all by himself on the last lap and sometimes 2,rare occasion 3.
Its obvious you don't watch WSBK.
LINK
Listen to the commentator at minute 1:00. He says the top 12 bikes were within 2 seconds of eachother. Now pause at minute 1:55, this is the beginning of the last lap; count the number of bikes in the lead group. Now midway through that 'last' lap the group of over 10 becomes two groups, with the lead group of 6 bikes at the line. Any one of those lead 10-12 going into the LAST lap were "dicing" for the win the entire race. Oh, I can already here you saying, well that is rare. Perhaps that many bikes on the last lap, but its NOT rare to have half a dozen bikes in WSBK dicing for the lead in any race this year. You can look them up. Its common to have several bikes at the line, much more dicing in the final stages of the race. This was NOT the case in the AMA, especially in Superbike class of which we are speaking of.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 22 2008, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So to answer your question,Yes 8 factory bikes or 10 with Ducati is plenty for a show at the front.
I'll agree 8 factory bikes should be plenty for a good show, but what's been the reality in the AMA? We have had full factory Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, and a few years Ducati. In the last 5 years, its been complete Suzuki domination. On top of that, the final lap has rarely seen both Suzukis of Mladin vs Spies "dicing" as you say; its usually been one or the other guy way head, with the other factories miles behind.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 22 2008, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Satellite teams and privateers have a place in pro racing and that place for a sattelite team is to take factory money,help them develope bikes and future factory riders.Privateers are field fillers,period.They are decent riders who have jobs and want to go out and have fun on the weekends.They are the caliber rider you could find anywhere in the country meeting up at cracker barrel for a Sunday ride.
Not all privateer teams are created equal. Erion, Attack, Jordan are by definition "privateer" teams, but they are certainly NOT the privateer type that loads his bike in the truck and drives himself off to the next venue as rider, driver, mechanic, and sponsor like in a local club series. Your statement that privateer riders outside of the factory umbrella in the full AMA series, saying that they are the "caliber of rider you find anywhere....", is totally absurd! Perhaps you are confusing the privateer in the full racing series with the track "specialists" that enter individual races. Perhaps you may need to be reminded that Erion & Jordan have won championships in support classes. Championships at the superbike level are NOT suppose to be predetermined title for the factories ONLY. Major "privateer" efforts like Erion, Attack, M4 EMGO, and Jordan should have the realistic opportunity at parity within the series. (This is the very point of this debate, obviously we disagree, but I fail to see your logic other than factory brands are the only ones who should have competitive propriety.)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 22 2008, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I keep asking what Jordan wanted from Yosh....
Its easy enough to find out. Look it up. (Not that it really matters, its obvious you have some alternate reason why you blame Jordan for what has become a DMG/MIC/All Jap brand created disaster.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 22 2008, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Guys,you can blame who you want,in any order you want but i...
Well it looks like while the rest of us look at the broader picture, you're fixated on "blaming" Jordan. (Laughable really, since he doesn't wield that much power, but rather all the idiots who have screwed this thing up, one of which is the big player Suzuki, for which it seems you are fixated on deflecting blame. Interestingly, they would have the greatest motive to stonewall change seeing that they want to keep the status quo).
I don't think the argument is that Spies and Mladin are not extraordinary riders. I agree, they really are a cut above. However, brand domination has a way of swinging, just look at a any series. Notwithstanding, your rebut is that the other factories wouldn't stand for lack of parity, but yet Kawasaki has been a brand that has done close to zero in all premier forms of racing (AMA, WBK, MotoGP) so it seems, some factories do stand for lack of parity. Suzuki makes a great machine, with extraordinary riders, but I think you fail to take into account rules of a series have a great effect on results. Have you ever taken a look at the AMA superstock grid? Its 99.9% Suzukis. Do they make the only competitive 1000 out of the box? If so, then why isn't that brand dominating WSBK? In WSBK Superstock, the top five in the championship standing were Ducati, Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha. Now that is parity!
Much of what this thread has been about is you blaming Jordan for something he has NO control over. My point is that the show and the series need some retooling. You seem hell bent on saying the retooling was spawned by Jordan complaining and whining. Your explanation for the show being so lob sided is that Spies/Mladin were making it appear to be lob sided by virtue of their extraordinary ability. So then you don't recognize that any changes were needed in the AMA. Well, I guess we just disagree.
Its obvious you don't watch WSBK.
LINK
Listen to the commentator at minute 1:00. He says the top 12 bikes were within 2 seconds of eachother. Now pause at minute 1:55, this is the beginning of the last lap; count the number of bikes in the lead group. Now midway through that 'last' lap the group of over 10 becomes two groups, with the lead group of 6 bikes at the line. Any one of those lead 10-12 going into the LAST lap were "dicing" for the win the entire race. Oh, I can already here you saying, well that is rare. Perhaps that many bikes on the last lap, but its NOT rare to have half a dozen bikes in WSBK dicing for the lead in any race this year. You can look them up. Its common to have several bikes at the line, much more dicing in the final stages of the race. This was NOT the case in the AMA, especially in Superbike class of which we are speaking of.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 22 2008, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So to answer your question,Yes 8 factory bikes or 10 with Ducati is plenty for a show at the front.
I'll agree 8 factory bikes should be plenty for a good show, but what's been the reality in the AMA? We have had full factory Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, and a few years Ducati. In the last 5 years, its been complete Suzuki domination. On top of that, the final lap has rarely seen both Suzukis of Mladin vs Spies "dicing" as you say; its usually been one or the other guy way head, with the other factories miles behind.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 22 2008, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Satellite teams and privateers have a place in pro racing and that place for a sattelite team is to take factory money,help them develope bikes and future factory riders.Privateers are field fillers,period.They are decent riders who have jobs and want to go out and have fun on the weekends.They are the caliber rider you could find anywhere in the country meeting up at cracker barrel for a Sunday ride.
Not all privateer teams are created equal. Erion, Attack, Jordan are by definition "privateer" teams, but they are certainly NOT the privateer type that loads his bike in the truck and drives himself off to the next venue as rider, driver, mechanic, and sponsor like in a local club series. Your statement that privateer riders outside of the factory umbrella in the full AMA series, saying that they are the "caliber of rider you find anywhere....", is totally absurd! Perhaps you are confusing the privateer in the full racing series with the track "specialists" that enter individual races. Perhaps you may need to be reminded that Erion & Jordan have won championships in support classes. Championships at the superbike level are NOT suppose to be predetermined title for the factories ONLY. Major "privateer" efforts like Erion, Attack, M4 EMGO, and Jordan should have the realistic opportunity at parity within the series. (This is the very point of this debate, obviously we disagree, but I fail to see your logic other than factory brands are the only ones who should have competitive propriety.)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 22 2008, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I keep asking what Jordan wanted from Yosh....
Its easy enough to find out. Look it up. (Not that it really matters, its obvious you have some alternate reason why you blame Jordan for what has become a DMG/MIC/All Jap brand created disaster.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 22 2008, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Guys,you can blame who you want,in any order you want but i...
Well it looks like while the rest of us look at the broader picture, you're fixated on "blaming" Jordan. (Laughable really, since he doesn't wield that much power, but rather all the idiots who have screwed this thing up, one of which is the big player Suzuki, for which it seems you are fixated on deflecting blame. Interestingly, they would have the greatest motive to stonewall change seeing that they want to keep the status quo).
I don't think the argument is that Spies and Mladin are not extraordinary riders. I agree, they really are a cut above. However, brand domination has a way of swinging, just look at a any series. Notwithstanding, your rebut is that the other factories wouldn't stand for lack of parity, but yet Kawasaki has been a brand that has done close to zero in all premier forms of racing (AMA, WBK, MotoGP) so it seems, some factories do stand for lack of parity. Suzuki makes a great machine, with extraordinary riders, but I think you fail to take into account rules of a series have a great effect on results. Have you ever taken a look at the AMA superstock grid? Its 99.9% Suzukis. Do they make the only competitive 1000 out of the box? If so, then why isn't that brand dominating WSBK? In WSBK Superstock, the top five in the championship standing were Ducati, Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha. Now that is parity!
Much of what this thread has been about is you blaming Jordan for something he has NO control over. My point is that the show and the series need some retooling. You seem hell bent on saying the retooling was spawned by Jordan complaining and whining. Your explanation for the show being so lob sided is that Spies/Mladin were making it appear to be lob sided by virtue of their extraordinary ability. So then you don't recognize that any changes were needed in the AMA. Well, I guess we just disagree.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 23 2008, 01:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Its obvious you don't watch WSBK.
LINK
Listen to the commentator at minute 1:00. He says the top 12 bikes were within 2 seconds of eachother. Now pause at minute 1:55, this is the beginning of the last lap; count the number of bikes in the lead group. Now midway through that 'last' lap the group of over 10 becomes two groups, with the lead group of 6 bikes at the line. Any one of those lead 10-12 going into the LAST lap were "dicing" for the win the entire race. Oh, I can already here you saying, well that is rare. Perhaps that many bikes on the last lap, but its NOT rare to have half a dozen bikes in WSBK dicing for the lead in any race this year. You can look them up. Its common to have several bikes at the line, much more dicing in the final stages of the race. This was NOT the case in the AMA, especially in Superbike class of which we are speaking of.
I'll agree 8 factory bikes should be plenty for a good show, but what's been the reality in the AMA? We have had full factory Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, and a few years Ducati. In the last 5 years, its been complete Suzuki domination. On top of that, the final lap has rarely seen both Suzukis of Mladin vs Spies "dicing" as you say; its usually been one or the other guy way head, with the other factories miles behind.
Not all privateer teams are created equal. Erion, Attack, Jordan are by definition "privateer" teams, but they are certainly NOT the privateer type that loads his bike in the truck and drives himself off to the next venue as rider, driver, mechanic, and sponsor like in a local club series. Your statement that privateer riders outside of the factory umbrella in the full AMA series, saying that they are the "caliber of rider you find anywhere....", is totally absurd! Perhaps you are confusing the privateer in the full racing series with the track "specialists" that enter individual races. Perhaps you may need to be reminded that Erion & Jordan have won championships in support classes. Championships at the superbike level are NOT suppose to be predetermined title for the factories ONLY. Major "privateer" efforts like Erion, Attack, M4 EMGO, and Jordan should have the realistic opportunity at parity within the series. (This is the very point of this debate, obviously we disagree, but I fail to see your logic other than factory brands are the only ones who should have competitive propriety.)
Its easy enough to find out. Look it up. (Not that it really matters, its obvious you have some alternate reason why you blame Jordan for what has become a DMG/MIC/All Jap brand created disaster.
Well it looks like while the rest of us look at the broader picture, you're fixated on "blaming" Jordan. (Laughable really, since he doesn't wield that much power, but rather all the idiots who have screwed this thing up, one of which is the big player Suzuki, for which it seems you are fixated on deflecting blame. Interestingly, they would have the greatest motive to stonewall change seeing that they want to keep the status quo).
I don't think the argument is that Spies and Mladin are not extraordinary riders. I agree, they really are a cut above. However, brand domination has a way of swinging, just look at a any series. Notwithstanding, your rebut is that the other factories wouldn't stand for lack of parity, but yet Kawasaki has been a brand that has done close to zero in all premier forms of racing (AMA, WBK, MotoGP) so it seems, some factories do stand for lack of parity. Suzuki makes a great machine, with extraordinary riders, but I think you fail to take into account rules of a series have a great effect on results. Have you ever taken a look at the AMA superstock grid? Its 99.9% Suzukis. Do they make the only competitive 1000 out of the box? If so, then why isn't that brand dominating WSBK? In WSBK Superstock, the top five in the championship standing were Ducati, Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha. Now that is parity!
Much of what this thread has been about is you blaming Jordan for something he has NO control over. My point is that the show and the series need some retooling. You seem hell bent on saying the retooling was spawned by Jordan complaining and whining. Your explanation for the show being so lob sided is that Spies/Mladin were making it appear to be lob sided by virtue of their extraordinary ability. So then you don't recognize that any changes were needed in the AMA. Well, I guess we just disagree.
Erion, Attack,Jordan are not privateer teams.They accept factory support way past contingency money.They are defacto satellite teams.There are a number of riders who run the whole series but do it on their own dime.I ride with guys that are better,they just dont have the time or the money to go play all year and live in the back of a van and hole up in cheap motel rooms.They have real jobs and some even have families
What rule favors Suzuki ?
The Superstock guys run Suzuki's because it is a proven bike and the big reason is Suzuki has the best contingency program by a long shot.
I did notice one thing after reading your diatribe,you didnt take me up on my bet.With the new club racing rules, bikes should be equal right.I will take Mladin in a runaway,if he even bothers.You can have the field.How can you not take advantage of those odds.
LINK
Listen to the commentator at minute 1:00. He says the top 12 bikes were within 2 seconds of eachother. Now pause at minute 1:55, this is the beginning of the last lap; count the number of bikes in the lead group. Now midway through that 'last' lap the group of over 10 becomes two groups, with the lead group of 6 bikes at the line. Any one of those lead 10-12 going into the LAST lap were "dicing" for the win the entire race. Oh, I can already here you saying, well that is rare. Perhaps that many bikes on the last lap, but its NOT rare to have half a dozen bikes in WSBK dicing for the lead in any race this year. You can look them up. Its common to have several bikes at the line, much more dicing in the final stages of the race. This was NOT the case in the AMA, especially in Superbike class of which we are speaking of.
I'll agree 8 factory bikes should be plenty for a good show, but what's been the reality in the AMA? We have had full factory Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, and a few years Ducati. In the last 5 years, its been complete Suzuki domination. On top of that, the final lap has rarely seen both Suzukis of Mladin vs Spies "dicing" as you say; its usually been one or the other guy way head, with the other factories miles behind.
Not all privateer teams are created equal. Erion, Attack, Jordan are by definition "privateer" teams, but they are certainly NOT the privateer type that loads his bike in the truck and drives himself off to the next venue as rider, driver, mechanic, and sponsor like in a local club series. Your statement that privateer riders outside of the factory umbrella in the full AMA series, saying that they are the "caliber of rider you find anywhere....", is totally absurd! Perhaps you are confusing the privateer in the full racing series with the track "specialists" that enter individual races. Perhaps you may need to be reminded that Erion & Jordan have won championships in support classes. Championships at the superbike level are NOT suppose to be predetermined title for the factories ONLY. Major "privateer" efforts like Erion, Attack, M4 EMGO, and Jordan should have the realistic opportunity at parity within the series. (This is the very point of this debate, obviously we disagree, but I fail to see your logic other than factory brands are the only ones who should have competitive propriety.)
Its easy enough to find out. Look it up. (Not that it really matters, its obvious you have some alternate reason why you blame Jordan for what has become a DMG/MIC/All Jap brand created disaster.
Well it looks like while the rest of us look at the broader picture, you're fixated on "blaming" Jordan. (Laughable really, since he doesn't wield that much power, but rather all the idiots who have screwed this thing up, one of which is the big player Suzuki, for which it seems you are fixated on deflecting blame. Interestingly, they would have the greatest motive to stonewall change seeing that they want to keep the status quo).
I don't think the argument is that Spies and Mladin are not extraordinary riders. I agree, they really are a cut above. However, brand domination has a way of swinging, just look at a any series. Notwithstanding, your rebut is that the other factories wouldn't stand for lack of parity, but yet Kawasaki has been a brand that has done close to zero in all premier forms of racing (AMA, WBK, MotoGP) so it seems, some factories do stand for lack of parity. Suzuki makes a great machine, with extraordinary riders, but I think you fail to take into account rules of a series have a great effect on results. Have you ever taken a look at the AMA superstock grid? Its 99.9% Suzukis. Do they make the only competitive 1000 out of the box? If so, then why isn't that brand dominating WSBK? In WSBK Superstock, the top five in the championship standing were Ducati, Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha. Now that is parity!
Much of what this thread has been about is you blaming Jordan for something he has NO control over. My point is that the show and the series need some retooling. You seem hell bent on saying the retooling was spawned by Jordan complaining and whining. Your explanation for the show being so lob sided is that Spies/Mladin were making it appear to be lob sided by virtue of their extraordinary ability. So then you don't recognize that any changes were needed in the AMA. Well, I guess we just disagree.
Erion, Attack,Jordan are not privateer teams.They accept factory support way past contingency money.They are defacto satellite teams.There are a number of riders who run the whole series but do it on their own dime.I ride with guys that are better,they just dont have the time or the money to go play all year and live in the back of a van and hole up in cheap motel rooms.They have real jobs and some even have families
What rule favors Suzuki ?
The Superstock guys run Suzuki's because it is a proven bike and the big reason is Suzuki has the best contingency program by a long shot.
I did notice one thing after reading your diatribe,you didnt take me up on my bet.With the new club racing rules, bikes should be equal right.I will take Mladin in a runaway,if he even bothers.You can have the field.How can you not take advantage of those odds.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 22 2008, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i will be willing to bet anyone on here 100.00 dollars,If Mladin races next year,he will win more races than he did in 2008 and will have the title wrapped up with 2 races to go.
Povol, you sometimes make an ..... out of yourself. The point of the debate was NOT whether Mladin was a great rider, but your stupid assessment that its Jordan to blame for the DMG/MIC mess. Bottom line, changes needed to be made in the AMA. Its was a ....... joke at the superbike level. It was a Suzuki cup. Interestingly, the biggest protesting voice for the changes comes from Suzuki. If they were so confident in their rider machine combo, then enter without stipulation. I'd say the only reason they haven't agreed to enter 09 is because they are actively trying to make a backroom deal to have some subtle rule changes so they can continue their loophole racing.
I'll take this bet if you can explain what changes DMG has made that Jordan has "whined" his way into getting.
Now when you explain this, then send me your address BEFORE we have a virtual shake to make the bet. So if you don't cough up the hundy, I can go personally and take it from your .... (If I recall, you had made it to Laguna and didn't bother for a meet up.) So, I'm NOT about to make a bet with you knowing that you'll cheap skate out of it.
Let me remind you of what you said:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 18 2008, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Im not rooting for Jordan because it was his bitching and moaning that got this ball rolling that wiped out professional racing in America.
Wow, so it was Jordan that "wiped out professional racing in America"! Holy ...., Jordan is like the Anti-Christ.
Now, start explaining......I'm waiting.
Povol, you sometimes make an ..... out of yourself. The point of the debate was NOT whether Mladin was a great rider, but your stupid assessment that its Jordan to blame for the DMG/MIC mess. Bottom line, changes needed to be made in the AMA. Its was a ....... joke at the superbike level. It was a Suzuki cup. Interestingly, the biggest protesting voice for the changes comes from Suzuki. If they were so confident in their rider machine combo, then enter without stipulation. I'd say the only reason they haven't agreed to enter 09 is because they are actively trying to make a backroom deal to have some subtle rule changes so they can continue their loophole racing.
I'll take this bet if you can explain what changes DMG has made that Jordan has "whined" his way into getting.
Now when you explain this, then send me your address BEFORE we have a virtual shake to make the bet. So if you don't cough up the hundy, I can go personally and take it from your .... (If I recall, you had made it to Laguna and didn't bother for a meet up.) So, I'm NOT about to make a bet with you knowing that you'll cheap skate out of it.
Let me remind you of what you said:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Dec 18 2008, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Im not rooting for Jordan because it was his bitching and moaning that got this ball rolling that wiped out professional racing in America.
Wow, so it was Jordan that "wiped out professional racing in America"! Holy ...., Jordan is like the Anti-Christ.
Now, start explaining......I'm waiting.
