John Hopkins

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I knew it was bad! The stupid commentators never even mentioned him getting run over like some dog. This sucks.

Like I said, the man is nails. For all his injuries, he has always got back on a bike. Yet, as we see in MotoGP, Lorenzo gets the accolade of hero status for riding hurt, while this man has ridden with one foot in the grave; yet most all he gets is .... for it.

Lex & Arab, with all do respect, and anybody else who puts a person's paycheck erroneously as a dig against him, his salary is what his employer was willing to pay him coupled with savvy negotiation. Perhaps you are willing to negotiate against yourself the next time you request a pay raise?

Speedy recovery. I won't mind if he says goodbye to racing. It’s not worth it. Nobody appreciates it anyway.
 
Ouch. At least he's got no choice but to try and heal up (for real) now, rather than riding while just too injured. The guy really needs to get physically right.
 
Sad to hear that, he really hasn't had one race where he could really show what he can do. Well let's hope if he joines next season things will go a bit more his way, as long as he skips Assen
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 10 2009, 10:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lex & Arab, with all do respect, and anybody else who puts a person's paycheck erroneously as a dig against him, his salary is what his employer was willing to pay him coupled with savvy negotiation. Perhaps you are willing to negotiate against yourself the next time you request a pay raise?

I don't care how much money he makes, and I was in support of his decision to leave Suzuki for Kawasaki because it seemed like a good move going into the 2008 season.

Kawasaki were not competitive in 2008 after strained relations between the governing body and the tire manufacturers lead to an unusual 2008 season, a season in which we know the tires were changed at least so far as the elimination of dual compound tires.

Hopper chased short-term profit and it ended up effecting the long term of his career. We can all defend his decision as much as we would like, but the results speak for themselves.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 10 2009, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. Hopper chased short-term profit and it ended up effecting the long term of his career.
2. We can all defend his decision as much as we would like, but the results speak for themselves.
Suzuki to Kawasaki, that really was a leap?
<


You didn't answer my question. Seeing what can happen in this sport at a very young age, he was smart to hold out for a livelyhood. Hopkins would have been on the very same machine that Melandri is on now (that after soldiering the previous year)--and Kawasaki has been ahead of both Suzuki's for some races this year. Suzuki is the bottom of the barrel, Hopkins new this. There is no way you can make a case that going to Kawasaki was far worse than where Suzuki sits right now. (Need not remind you that Kawasaki threw in the towel, not Hopkins). Are you aware that Suzuki has not seen a top 4 this year, Melandri at least on the podium. The point difference between Kawasaki and the top Suzuki is 10 measly points (the difference being Marco's recent DNF at Indy). So you're going to try and convince me that Kawasaki, an unsupported machine all year, against a "full factory" effort that is Suzuki, sitting only 10 points above (keep in mind Kawasaki was ahead a few races before) is your case for Hopkins choosing money over a sound factory effort? The Kawasaki even in its one-year old state is still a better machine than the Suzuki! As you said, the results speak for themselves, eh. You lost both points (but that's just par for the course).
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 10 2009, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I knew it was bad! The stupid commentators never even mentioned him getting run over like some dog. This sucks.

Like I said, the man is nails. For all his injuries, he has always got back on a bike. Yet, as we see in MotoGP, Lorenzo gets the accolade of hero status for riding hurt, while this man has ridden with one foot in the grave; yet most all he gets is .... for it.


I had a reply typed up yesterday for this thread but will use your comments Jum as they allude to my thoughts on the Hopkins situation.

Whilst my opininions of Hopkins are well known, I do have grave concerns for his safety as he seems to be the antithesis of a Rossi and as such the longevity of Hopkins in the sport needs to eb looked at for his sake.

This is not a criticism of Hopkins himself but it seems taht every time when Hopkins falls he is injured severely (whereas VR etc can fall and escape injury) and for mine this is a concern for Hopkins long term life. He needs to sit down and look at his future as I as a fando not enjoy seeing riders suffer in teh manner in which he has, and I fear he will continue to do so.

I do not have the answer as to why this seems to happen to him, maybe has has broken mirros and run over black cats whilst walking under ladders, seriously who knows but the guy needs to look at the future and soon.






Gaz
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 10 2009, 10:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I knew it was bad! The stupid commentators never even mentioned him getting run over like some dog. This sucks.

Like I said, the man is nails. For all his injuries, he has always got back on a bike. Yet, as we see in MotoGP, Lorenzo gets the accolade of hero status for riding hurt, while this man has ridden with one foot in the grave; yet most all he gets is .... for it.

Lex & Arab, with all do respect, and anybody else who puts a person's paycheck erroneously as a dig against him, his salary is what his employer was willing to pay him coupled with savvy negotiation. Perhaps you are willing to negotiate against yourself the next time you request a pay raise?

Speedy recovery. I won't mind if he says goodbye to racing. It’s not worth it. Nobody appreciates it anyway.
I Loled at that because it is soo true. he is just one of those guys that crashes bad. Luckily for me I have had 6 crashes this year and no injuries.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 10 2009, 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Suzuki to Kawasaki, that really was a leap?
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You didn't answer my question. Seeing what can happen in this sport at a very young age, he was smart to hold out for a livelyhood. Hopkins would have been on the very same machine that Melandri is on now (that after soldiering the previous year)--and Kawasaki has been ahead of both Suzuki's for some races this year. Suzuki is the bottom of the barrel, Hopkins new this. There is no way you can make a case that going to Kawasaki was far worse than where Suzuki sits right now. (Need not remind you that Kawasaki threw in the towel, not Hopkins). Are you aware that Suzuki has not seen a top 4 this year, Melandri at least on the podium. The point difference between Kawasaki and the top Suzuki is 10 measly points (the difference being Marco's recent DNF at Indy). So you're going to try and convince me that Kawasaki, an unsupported machine all year, against a "full factory" effort that is Suzuki, sitting only 10 points above (keep in mind Kawasaki was ahead a few races before) is your case for Hopkins choosing money over a sound factory effort? The Kawasaki even in its one-year old state is still a better machine than the Suzuki! As you said, the results speak for themselves, eh. You lost both points (but that's just par for the course).
Hindsight is nice. When he made the switch he had just finished a season where he finished fourth in the championship and Suzuki looked very competitive. Lots of insiders talked about how the Kawasaki showed lots of potential, it only needed a decent rider to get the speed out of it. Maybe I'm just cynical but who would say this? Certainly the riders wouldn't, team managers and bosses likely would but what team boss wouldn't say that his bike has loads of potential waiting for the right rider? Maybe it was mechanics, but I have to wonder what exactly could draw them to that conclusion. Obviously they know the bike in and out, but doesn't everyone in a team? And each year, doesn't everyone in a team firmly believe they have something special before the season starts? I guess I just don't buy into it, certainly not enough to make the switch justifiable.

I don't blame the guy for taking the paycheck, if I were in the same position. I blame the guy for dumping what, at the time, was the better ride for something lower down the order. He stayed at Suzuki far too long, especially considering the rumored offers from Ducati and Tech 3, only to jump ship when the getting was good.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Sep 10 2009, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hindsight is nice. .
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your post stated that it was reported within sport insiders (as well as reported throughout the sport media) that Kawasaki had great potential, but only needed a good rider. (At the time Hopkins was the only available "top rider".)

You also say that he stayed with Suzuki way to long? Uhm, is there some disconnect in your logic I'm not understanding?

Ducati's Luvio Suppos just mentioned the Kawasaki is not as bad as people think, as I recall you received the interview well. So the Kawaski, even from other insiders (not just the 'bias' team green, thinks the bike isn't that bad). So are you going to make a case that the Suzuki is that good? Perhaps you forgot that Suzuki have never thrown down the gantlet, that's is, we are pulling all the stops, we need a championship effort--yet, that is what Kawasaki made public as their goal, and were will to pay for that service. DePuniet had already shown some glimpse into its potential which took it out of the realm of "what might be" into the realm of they really do have something worthy. In 07 much was made of the "speed" of the Ducati, did you forget that the Kawasaki also had above average speed trap performance stats? Hindsight? That was the tenor in which Hopkins made his decision (not the hindsight you now say was the reality). Look again my friend, I think you forgot some details.

The best argument I've seen so far is that he got alot of money to crap on the dude, as it is always mentioned in any position that debates his move as bad. Point to one reason that Suzuki made public of substance that would have convinced you that they were really going to try and make a title run. You really are going to have a tough time. Conversely, I can list several reason why I would have left, and even for free to another factory with the promise of really trying another approach. Need I remind you that they also had an opportunity to keep Hopkins, and they did not. They also had Ben Spies to loose, and they showed him the door. What does this say about their willingness to make a run? Mere spectators knew it was a bad move to let Spies go, and now we have teams falling over themselves to sign the man. What does this say about Suzuki's willingness to change their mediocre effort or their understanding of talent, or what they need to improve their effort? Would you have stayed with Suzuki Austin?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 11 2009, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Correct me if I'm wrong, but your post stated that it was reported within sport insiders (as well as reported throughout the sport media) that Kawasaki had great potential, but only needed a good rider. (At the time Hopkins was the only available "top rider".)

You also say that he stayed with Suzuki way to long? Uhm, is there some disconnect in your logic I'm not understanding?

Ducati's Luvio Suppos just mentioned the Kawasaki is not as bad as people think, as I recall you received the interview well. So the Kawaski, even from other insiders (not just the 'bias' team green, thinks the bike isn't that bad). So are you going to make a case that the Suzuki is that good? Perhaps you forgot that Suzuki have never thrown down the gantlet, that's is, we are pulling all the stops, we need a championship effort--yet, that is what Kawasaki made public as their goal, and were will to pay for that service. DePuniet had already shown some glimpse into its potential which took it out of the realm of "what might be" into the realm of they really do have something worthy. In 07 much was made of the "speed" of the Ducati, did you forget that the Kawasaki also had above average speed trap performance stats? Hindsight? That was the tenor in which Hopkins made his decision (not the hindsight you now say was the reality). Look again my friend, I think you forgot some details.

The best argument I've seen so far is that he got alot of money to crap on the dude, as it is always mentioned in any position that debates his move as bad. Point to one reason that Suzuki made public of substance that would have convinced you that they were really going to try and make a title run. You really are going to have a tough time. Conversely, I can list several reason why I would have left, and even for free to another factory with the promise of really trying another approach. Need I remind you that they also had an opportunity to keep Hopkins, and they did not. They also had Ben Spies to loose, and they showed him the door. What does this say about their willingness to make a run? Mere spectators knew it was a bad move to let Spies go, and now we have teams falling over themselves to sign the man. What does this say about Suzuki's willingness to change their mediocre effort or their understanding of talent, or what they need to improve their effort? Would you have stayed with Suzuki Austin?
As far as the insiders and Suppo suggesting the potential of the Kawasaki, they obviously see something, and Hopkins must have seen it himself or bought into it to make the switch. Putting myself in his shoes, if I had just finished fourth in the championship and my teammate was only two places behind me, I would need hard evidence that switching brands is the right decision. I'm talking results, Honda and Yamaha results. Podiums, race wins. Not "well Kawasaki has two .... (at the time RdP was ...., you can't argue it, even if I've grown to rather like him) riders who are getting reasonably respectable results and the traps speeds are good..." For me, it was too big of a gamble.

I can't argue your point about Suzuki committing 100 percent and pulling out all the stops for a championship. But at least they were there for the decades leading up to the switch to four strokes. Where was Kawasaki? You can complain about Suzuki not putting in the effort to win a championship (or a race, for that matter), but at least they were there. Meanwhile Kawasaki was off thinking of clever ways to market the Ninja 500.

Would I have stayed at Suzuki? I would hope I wouldn't have to but if my options were Suzuki and Kawasaki, I'd pick Suzuki.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Duc999 @ Sep 7 2009, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>...this is a guy that on the underpowered/tire eating suzuki could run with Rossi for 2/3 race distance.
Ahh... but at what cost?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noodlerizer @ Sep 9 2009, 10:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is why I love this forum. People talking .... when they can't even properly work a clutch let alone ride 190+ hp superbike...
Take care with yer slanders Noodle. More than a few of us have racing resumes and the MAJORITY are passionate bikers with a VERY wide range of experience on all forms of two wheeled motorsports...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Sep 11 2009, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Would I have stayed at Suzuki?

My friend, we've had this conversation before, it seems we still disagree, eh buddy.

Hopkins was with Suzuki as you said for many years, and surely he would have been in the position to realize they were not committed to taking that next step. Consider this Ooster, Rossi, as you and I are well aware, has now threatened to leave the sport TWICE (1st during Bstone debacle & 2nd while expressing frustration with Lorenzo signing) both times because he sited the ‘possibility’ (not event fact) of not being competitive (agree?). This is on a hunch that he might not be competitive because: suspect tires 07/08 & suspect thinning of resources by the factory (remaining of 09/10), so why is Hopkin’s decision to leave somewhere that has not been willing to make that next competitive step so difficult to stomach? (At very least we agree that Suzuki was not full committed right?) Can you imagine how frustrating that must be for a man who to take another season? I would have left that dead end place in a hurry (apparently not you good sir).

Suzuki to Kawasaki was more a lateral move than the Yamaha/Honda to Kawasaki magnitude of difference you imply. At very least Kawasaki made the public effort (with a salary to backup that claim) that they were serious about going to the next level. Yes, they did not make good on that promise, but neither did Suzuki (as you can see its really a push). You say you would have stayed with Suzuki, which is interesting because you would have been going against your own admitted assessment "Hopkins stayed at Suzuki too long" (that's what you said right?) So then, you would continue with the same insane decision hoping for different results?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 11 2009, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Take care with yer slanders Noodle. More than a few of us have racing resumes and the MAJORITY are passionate bikers with a VERY wide range of experience on all forms of two wheeled motorsports...

Mick, I think you're being a bit harsh here sir. First of all, Noods has raced at the national level (seen it with my own eyes) and might have an insightful perspective of our opinions. Second, his quip was not 'slander' as in malicious but rather the reality of many opinions here. And third, he's right, most here haven't ridden at 190mph yet have opinions that frankly are a bit ignorant (me included). Not sure why you must take issue with it, as his post wasn't all that antagonistic.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 12 2009, 03:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hopkins was with Suzuki... for many years, and surely he would have been in the position to realize they were not committed to taking that next step. ...so why is Hopkin’s decision to leave somewhere that has not been willing to make that next competitive step so difficult to stomach?
'Cause he went to KAWASAKI... the only factory team less committed and competitive than Suzuki, Jum. Seriously though, I plateau with jobs/projects after about 3 - 5 years and I'm sure Hopper had his fill of Suzuki and made the move that was right for HIM at the time... unfortunately it turned out to be a bad decision and one which has ultimately lead him to a painfully agonizing oblivion.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 11 2009, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>'Cause he went to KAWASAKI... the only factory team less committed and competitive than Suzuki, Jum. Seriously though, I plateau with jobs/projects after about 3 - 5 years and I'm sure Hopper had his fill of Suzuki and made the move that was right for HIM at the time... unfortunately it turned out to be a bad decision and one which has ultimately lead him to a painfully agonizing oblivion.

Oh yeah, I defo agree with you bud, I'm just saying that Suzuki was not that much better. That's kinda why I defend the move as lateral rather than a leap into the abyss, get my meaning?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 11 2009, 02:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's kinda why I defend the move as lateral rather than a leap into the abyss, get my meaning?

Definitely looks like a lateral movement as far as the standings go today. Melandri is right smack in the middle of the 2 Suzukis. This is without support all year where the Suzi's have been working on all kinds of upgrades. Who knows if the kwak would have been able to improve with factory support and Hopkins as the pilot but according to the data we have right now it looks like a lateral movement at the very least.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 12 2009, 03:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Mick, I think you're being a bit harsh here sir. First of all, Noods has raced at the national level (seen it with my own eyes) and might have an insightful perspective of our opinions. Second, his quip was not 'slander' as in malicious but rather the reality of many opinions here. And third, he's right, most here haven't ridden at 190mph yet have opinions that frankly are a bit ignorant (me included). Not sure why you must take issue with it, as his post wasn't all that antagonistic.
Well, the eleven posts prior to Noodle's outburst where reasonable, on topic and, in Pete's case humourous. They in no way incited having the poster's (or PS members in general) riding skills called into question with a crass generalization. I did not question or make assumptions regarding Nood's abilities in my response, I merely pointed out that the vast majority of PS members know their way around a bike. Frankly learning that Nood's an experienced national level racer just makes the comment seem arrogant as well as inappropriate. And yes his expertise and experience are a valuable asset to the forum which I appreciate as much as anyone, but as this is not a forum of ex-GP racers we are ALL ultimately armchair analysts. And no not many of us have had the opportunity to pilot a race tuned 190HP bike... but I'd love the chance if anyone's offering!!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 12 2009, 04:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh yeah, I defo agree with you bud, I'm just saying that Suzuki was not that much better. That's kinda why I defend the move as lateral rather than a leap into the abyss, get my meaning?
Yeah... no issue with "lateral" and justifiable - just turned out to be a losing hand.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 12 2009, 03:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Mick, I think you're being a bit harsh here sir.
Hey, I missed that - don't call me "sir" do I sound like a ......' "sir"?
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 11 2009, 02:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Frankly learning that Nood's an experienced national level racer just makes the comment seem arrogant as well as inappropriate.
Ok, we disagree, that's cool. I just think you may have took his comments to heart. He's actually a good kid, rather a soft spoken actually. I don't think he meant all that which you took out of it. But whatever, moving on.
 

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