JEREZ GP 2012: RACE

hawkdriver · May 1, 2012

mt1960 said:
If we take HRC as being typical of a factory team: The crew chief, along with the rest of the riders' team are contractors, usually (not always... privateer teams all usually work for the team - Tech 3 is a case in point - there are three principals, one of whom is a crew chief - Guy Coulon - plus a bunch of employees. Coulon works with Dovi, Cal has his own team, but they are 'approved' andemployed by Hervé Poncharal - basically because Cal doesn't have any cachet in GP and gets what he's given, but had the recommendation of crew chief). In the case of Stoner, the team don't work for HRC per se, they have a contract of the same duration as the rider. In Stoner's case, Gabbaini, six other ex-Ducati engineers, and a data tech. Typically the rider and crew chief work together to nut out their working relationship and the crew chief does the hiring and firing and direction of the crew - with feedback from the rider, if he has voiced a preference. If a rider has a beef with a crew member, it is likely that the rider will win. He is the star. A bit like the roadie/band relationship

Not all riders get to choose a crew chief, some are inherent in the kind of contract they have. The top boys can dictate a lot of terms. The people in the garage that do work for HRC are the two japanese race engineers (electronics/engine) and the four team managers - Nakamoto, Iwano, Kokubu and Suppo and, depending on what is going on (new parts/software) any spare R&D engineers that are at the track from the factory that day. Likewise they (the top guys at least) have a Bridgestone and an Ohlins tech each (or maybe one for the garage when times are tough!). So, Gabbaini manages the 'crew', including the Bridgestone, Ohlins, HRC engineers, and Stoner. He is the boss of his side of the garage. He gets advice from the HRC R&D engineers if he needs it, he can use the HRC management to sort out issues, media, logistics, etc., but he runs the racing for that rider - he makes the decisions. Obviously he has a boss that he is answerable to, but to all intents and purpose, he runs the show - he would be invovled with the planning and is the conduit for feedback between the team and the factory. The HRC guys are all employees, the same with B'stone and Ohlins for their respective companies. As a general rule, the guys in the Repsol colours are contractors - 'the team', the guys in the white shirts are HRC employees, hre guys in the black shirts are Bridgestone and the other guy in a white shirt with the red trim is Ohlins, I think... and the bird is the team secretary - works for HRC, as do the other support crew.

The guys that put together the hospitality, drive the motorhome, etc. are usually outside agencies - specialist construction /wiring /catering, etc. Hired on a seasonal basis. My mate's brother is a driver for Bridgestone - hauls tons of tyres all over the world. His background is truck driving, but when he's at the track, he mounts and unmounts tyres, handles the logistics and the paperwork. He is a contractor, signs on at testing time, finishes up after the last race.

Rhetorical question directed at kropo, JB was told who he was going to work with while an employee of HRC and he knew that. Maybe you can answer how Gardner did post JB since none of the others who were busy in extending their rossi hate to now include respected people associated with Rossi felt like answering that question.

I should have been a truck driver, it would be so cool to get to travel with any GP team.

mt1960 · May 1, 2012

J4rn0 said:
One aspect that strikes me is: why should it take so long and an order from above to try the blessed settings the other half of the garage is using, since apparently they are working better?...It is possible that Burgess is more to blame than Rossi in all this, but hey, this can hardly be very promising.

That is the nature of team/factory dynamics. The factory don't run the race team, that is the job of the crew chief. I guess word came down from on high that the results Nicky was getting, Team Rossi had better try something, why not use Hayden's settings. the rider will state his preference in things like base settings, then the crew chief is there to identify where the problems are via the rider feedback, to then task the various mechanics and engineers to solve the problem.

As Rossi said, they were trying to get the Ducati to work, using the knowledge gained with Yamaha and Honda - it wasn't working. Now they have gotten over the mental hurdle that says that they need to approach the Ducati differently, there may be movement in dialling in the bike and in communication back to the factory.

mt1960 · May 1, 2012

Sorry - I thought you wanted to know - still working out dynamics

Typed a load of ..... in the end then

(How unusual...)

hawkdriver said:
Maybe you can answer how Gardner did post JB since none of the others who were busy in extending their rossi hate to now include respected people associated with Rossi felt like answering that question.

JB moved across the garage for the 1989 season when doohan arrived - don't know who replaced him in Gardners team. He copped a lot of injuries in 89 and a few in 90, his record at HRC was 10, 5,5,6. He only won 4 more races those last 4 years, but he won Suzuka twice - 91 and 92?

I should have been a truck driver, it would be so cool to get to travel with any GP team.

It's hard yakka - he doesn't get nice hotels, he sleeps in the truck, drives a lot - when they have finished racing on Sunday he is on the road, to drop off worn tyres for inspection, pick up new ones and any tech stuff (usually at an airport - have to transfer them from the shipping container into the truck, manifests, etc), then driving to the next race for noon on Wedneday. Weeks like this one where there is only a few days can be tough, but at least Jerez to Estoril is only a few hundred miles. If it's somewhere like Estoril to Le Mans, that's over 1000 miles. The US he doesn't do (two US teams, one on each coast - teamsters

), nor Japan or Malaysia. He does Australia though. Highlight of the season for the drivers, he reckons.

mt1960 · May 1, 2012

BarryMachine said:
I took up target shooting cos I couldn't stand golf.

For a second, I read that as 'I took up target shooting because I couldn't stand golfers' - Too right! I thought to myself, eying up the Pedersolli

Talpa · May 1, 2012

hawkdriver said:
So the good people at Yamaha are just making things up too? This is racing, the number #1 fundamental of any racing is getting the most out of the tires. This is why they get testing with new tires ahead of time. Back to the M1 and how it's developed around the tires.

Good ole yamaha even back then they were ahead of the game and developing the bike around the tires. How did that season start out for Rossi and his new awesome tires? I'm willing to bet his competitiveness with the new tires coincided with the bike getting new parts for the bstones. this is directly from the yamaha gp website http://www.yamaha-mo.../dev/index.html

The end point here is that I didn't make anything up and Ducati suck.

[/left][/left]

You can't deny the facts, great find, and at least in 2008 Bridgestone were providing solutions and variations........Yamaha obvious move much faster, however I feel that the variations BS would have thrown into the mix would have helped immensely back then, not like now-so you have to feel for Ducati a bit in that sense-they are always well behind the 8 ball these days......

michaelm · May 1, 2012

Beef Supreme said:
With less editing, you originally said: "[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I tend to think he and jorge both thought the arm pump thing was an excuse and that stoner had run out of tyres at qatar and was going to again."[/font]

[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]It sounded a little paranoid.[/font]

Fair enough, if that is how it appeared to you then that is how it appeared to you. Again, my intention in mentioning his penultimate lap being faster than dani's last 7 was not to imply he could have won by more but to present evidence that his tyres (surprisingly even to me and perhaps to him) had lasted as well as dani's who was previously more noted for riding/preserving the soft bridgestone.

I watched the last 10 laps again and both stoner and lorenzo each went wide once so perhaps the tyres of both were rather second hand and stoner just managed to ride around this, as is sometimes/moderately often his wont with bike problems, for the last 2 laps. There was some interesting discussion on another site concerning whether the game has changed with the new bikes, and that lorenzo's past frugality with tyres was with the rear tyre and may not apply to front tyres with his cornerspeed style in the new formula.

I will admit to a gratuitous jibe at some of the critics of stoner's performance in qatar, not those who questioned whether he ran out of tyres because I wondered that myself, but those who (also gratuitously in my view) suggested he had faked injury/arm pump as an excuse, or attributed the arm pump to him being too lazy to train properly/and or run enough laps in practice.

Talpa · May 1, 2012

some interesting tid bits from Jerez........just for the views from some members here on the 'dull' and simplistic nature of the 990 era full of riders that aren't on par with todays.

Jerez 2005

Rossi's fastest lap in the 'RACE' 1.40.5-which was the fastest lap of the race that year, 2.5 seconds quicker than his qualifying time in 2012, similar conditions with Race rubber- 7 years apart-so much for progress.....Rossi's laptime in 2005- clocked during the race, matched Nicky's and Stoner's QP in 2012! in similar condition's - would have put Rossi on or near the front row last weekend........Michelin shod 2005 M1, hardly an ancient, bulky, slow, point and shoot 990 that doesn't come close to today's electro bikes........Nicky was also running in the low 1.41's during the race in 2005

Another thing to note, Juan Martinez was Sete's Crew Chief in 2005......I wonder if there is some underlining bad blood between those crews in the factory Ducati garage this year, hindering real progress? Kropo, any rumblings?

mylexicon · May 1, 2012

hawkdriver said:
So the good people at Yamaha are just making things up too? This is racing, the number #1 fundamental of any racing is getting the most out of the tires. This is why they get testing with new tires ahead of time. Back to the M1 and how it's developed around the tires.

No, they are not lying, and I concede that Rossi was engineering the bike to work with the tires in 2008 and 2009. However, he was not "developing a bike around the tires" as we know it today (unconditional optimization of tire performance), but he was "developing a bike around the tires" to make his own personal setup and feel preferences compatible with the '08 and '09 spec Bridgestones (optimization with setup constraint). You may also remember that Bridgestone released a new front tire for him in 2008 during the second half of the season. Stoner also had access to the tire b/c beating Michelin was still first priority at Bridgestone.

In 2009, with the advent of the control tire, the work of "developing the bike around the tires" really began for Yamaha, it wasn't long before Yamaha engineered a factory bike for Jorge that was superior or equal to Rossi's, at which point Rossi reminded everyone, that Jorge's development work had been aided by Rossi's 2008 data. As the tires changed for 2010, everything came good for Jorge and his chassis derivation. Bstone techs said he was basically hammering out ideal laps from race start to race end, and he learned a lot in 2009, when DNFs essentially cost him the title.

I believe this is the key to Rossi's departure from Yamaha. Yamaha had found a better way to engineer the M1 around the tires. Rossi didn't want to ride Jorge's bike or maybe he couldn't. He thought a V4 engine would give him a slight advantage to make up for the .1 or .2 that he had lost to Jorge. Alas, he discovered that his configuration and settings did not work on the Ducati at all. He insisted that the carbon frame was the culprit, but the twin spar did not make any improvements. When the new softer carcass rear tire appeared, he really started to slip off the pace, and Ducati are farther behind this year than last year. Ben's performance also mysteriously fell off a cliff this season, and the only link between Ben and Rossi is that Ben was riding Rossi's bike at one point. Ben said he liked the feel. Proves nothing, but it does explain why Rossi and Spies both fell way off the pace this season.

hawkdriver · May 1, 2012

Talpa said:
You can't deny the facts, great find, and at least in 2008 Bridgestone were providing solutions and variations........Yamaha obvious move much faster, however I feel that the variations BS would have thrown into the mix would have helped immensely back then, not like now-so you have to feel for Ducati a bit in that sense-they are always well behind the 8 ball these days......

Yeah I'm sure they suffer for being small as compared to the Japanese but at some point they need to give these two guys(NH VR) what they need. Everyone was talking about Nicky getting on the front row for quali but it seems they all forgot he was still 1 sec behind the leaders and he didn't really out perform the other riders because of the track conditions.

I don't think Ben Spies is suffering from some kind of mental problem or he's having problems with some supposed old Rossi parts/setup. I think there is a technical issue with his bike, maybe something that attaches to the engine, rear link or even swingarm pivot. They cycle the engines they use for race and practice, maybe other parts, and the only thing I could think is something on his bike is tweaked and they haven't or can't replace it.

Talpa · May 1, 2012

mylexicon said:
No, they are not lying, and I concede that Rossi was engineering the bike to work with the tires in 2008 and 2009. However, he was not "developing a bike around the tires" as we know it today (unconditional optimization of tire performance), but he was "developing a bike around the tires" to make his own personal setup and feel preferences compatible with the '08 and '09 spec Bridgestones (optimization with setup constraint). You may also remember that Bridgestone released a new front tire for him in 2008 during the second half of the season. Stoner also had access to the tire b/c beating Michelin was still first priority at Bridgestone.

In 2009, with the advent of the control tire, the work of "developing the bike around the tires" really began for Yamaha, it wasn't long before Yamaha engineered a factory bike for Jorge that was superior or equal to Rossi's, at which point Rossi reminded everyone, that Jorge's development work had been aided by Rossi's 2008 data. As the tires changed for 2010, everything came good for Jorge and his chassis derivation. Bstone techs said he was basically hammering out ideal laps from race start to race end, and he learned a lot in 2009, when DNFs essentially cost him the title.

I believe this is the key to Rossi's departure from Yamaha. Yamaha had found a better way to engineer the M1 around the tires. Rossi didn't want to ride Jorge's bike or maybe he couldn't. He thought a V4 engine would give him a slight advantage to make up for the .1 or .2 that he had lost to Jorge. Alas, he discovered that his configuration and settings did not work on the Ducati at all. He insisted that the carbon frame was the culprit, but the twin spar did not make any improvements. When the new softer carcass rear tire appeared, he really started to slip off the pace, and Ducati are farther behind this year than last year. Ben's performance also mysteriously fell off a cliff this season, and the only link between Ben and Rossi is that Ben was riding Rossi's bike at one point. Ben said he liked the feel. Proves nothing, but it does explain why Rossi and Spies both fell way off the pace this season.

Which worked for one season- then they failed to defend the title and got spanked by Casey and Honda..........really a better way? More like a temp better way. And the jury is still out on this season, especially if Ben is using the new 'better' way-that has yet to secure them a title sponsor 2 years running......

hawkdriver · May 1, 2012

mylexicon said:
No, they are not lying, and I concede that Rossi was engineering the bike to work with the tires in 2008 and 2009. However, he was not "developing a bike around the tires" as we know it today (unconditional optimization of tire performance), but he was "developing a bike around the tires" to make his own personal setup and feel preferences compatible with the '08 and '09 spec Bridgestones (optimization with setup constraint). You may also remember that Bridgestone released a new front tire for him in 2008 during the second half of the season. Stoner also had access to the tire b/c beating Michelin was still first priority at Bridgestone.

In 2009, with the advent of the control tire, the work of "developing the bike around the tires" really began for Yamaha, it wasn't long before Yamaha engineered a factory bike for Jorge that was superior or equal to Rossi's, at which point Rossi reminded everyone, that Jorge's development work had been aided by Rossi's 2008 data. As the tires changed for 2010, everything came good for Jorge and his chassis derivation. Bstone techs said he was basically hammering out ideal laps from race start to race end, and he learned a lot in 2009, when DNFs essentially cost him the title.

I believe this is the key to Rossi's departure from Yamaha. Yamaha had found a better way to engineer the M1 around the tires. Rossi didn't want to ride Jorge's bike or maybe he couldn't. He thought a V4 engine would give him a slight advantage to make up for the .1 or .2 that he had lost to Jorge. Alas, he discovered that his configuration and settings did not work on the Ducati at all. He insisted that the carbon frame was the culprit, but the twin spar did not make any improvements. When the new softer carcass rear tire appeared, he really started to slip off the pace, and Ducati are farther behind this year than last year. Ben's performance also mysteriously fell off a cliff this season, and the only link between Ben and Rossi is that Ben was riding Rossi's bike at one point. Ben said he liked the feel. Proves nothing, but it does explain why Rossi and Spies both fell way off the pace this season.

I don't know how much was done around Jlo at Yam. The Duc can't be configured to what Rossi wants without the bike being changed more. I don't blame them for trying after the latest changes to the Duc and I don't think the Duc will ever be competitive until they change the balance more to put pressure on the tires. If half assing what Rossi wanted got them this far they need to go all the way and let him ride the front wheel like he's been doing all his career.

Ben was fast during testing and decent in qatar practice, I really don't think it's the tires or some kind of parts related to Rossi that are causing him problems. Yamaha have admitted to needing more power last year and CS made an interesting comment about how the Yam is more like the Honda this year. He said Jlo doesn't have the corner speed he used to have but the bike is much better at accelerating out of the corners. Last year Jlo was saying they needed more power several times, yam also said they would have built a V4 if not for the rule changes $$. I don't think Ben's poor performance is related to Rossi in any way, I think they'll find the problem soon and he'll improve to his old self, not an alien but a solid 4th place rider.

hawkdriver · May 1, 2012

Talpa said:
Which worked for one season- then they failed to defend the title and got spanked by Casey and Honda..........really a better way? More like a temp better way. And the jury is still out on this season, especially if Ben is using the new 'better' way-that has yet to secure them a title sponsor 2 years running......

They're gonna get spanked again and they know it, the only thing that will stop CS this year is arm pump and I bet Honda is working furiously to put an end to the chatter.

mylexicon · May 2, 2012

Talpa said:
Which worked for one season- then they failed to defend the title and got spanked by Casey and Honda..........really a better way? More like a temp better way. And the jury is still out on this season, especially if Ben is using the new 'better' way-that has yet to secure them a title sponsor 2 years running......

Jorge's inability to defend had little or nothing to do with the way the bike worked the tires, and everything to do with Casey using the Honda rocketship to its fullest potential. The Honda's advantage was the powertrain. It revved higher, burned less fuel, had better reliability, and the RC212V had the super trick pre-selector zero shift gearbox. Yamaha didn't lose b/c of chassis development, and judging by the performance of Spies' bike and Rossi's bike, compared to JLo, Cal, and Dovi, I'd say the results are quite conclusive as to who had a better chassis development strategy for the 21L Bridgestone control tire formula.

birdman · May 2, 2012

Talpa said:
some interesting tid bits from Jerez........just for the views from some members here on the 'dull' and simplistic nature of the 990 era full of riders that aren't on par with todays.

Jerez 2005

Rossi's fastest lap in the 'RACE' 1.40.5-which was the fastest lap of the race that year, 2.5 seconds quicker than his qualifying time in 2012, similar conditions with Race rubber- 7 years apart-so much for progress.....Rossi's laptime in 2005- clocked during the race, matched Nicky's and Stoner's QP in 2012! in similar condition's - would have put Rossi on or near the front row last weekend........Michelin shod 2005 M1, hardly an ancient, bulky, slow, point and shoot 990 that doesn't come close to today's electro bikes........Nicky was also running in the low 1.41's during the race in 2005

Another thing to note, Juan Martinez was Sete's Crew Chief in 2005......I wonder if there is some underlining bad blood between those crews in the factory Ducati garage this year, hindering real progress? Kropo, any rumblings?

You talk about times from 2005. I noticed the 2006 Ducati won the race in Jerez. Capi pole time 1'39.064. Race fasted lap Capi 1'41.248. Capi should have won the championship. He didnt, because he wasnt good enough. Thats maybe why Capi is not in the top 20 of all time. Guess who is?

Should Ducati wheel out the 06 Duc for Rossi to try, just to see how it 'feels'? I would think an A/B comparison of the 06 vs the 12 Ducati would be very handy just to see if they ran off track somewhere.

There was absolutely nothing dull or simplistic about the 2002 Honda V5, or the 2005 Yamaha M1. I just wish Rossi wasnt riding them (thats a joke Talpa). He deserved to, same as Stoner today.

Rossi kicking Biaggi's ... was dissapointing, not dull and boring. It was also predictable, because he kept doing it for years. Yes I know we aready had this discussion on so called boring, predictable racing. I doubt anyone found the bikes dull. My favourite is still the Aprilia Cube. But it was a POS, ala Ducati. Where's Jumkie, notice that even in the full prototype period an innovative POS bike didnt win races? Who do you blame for the failure of the Aprilia. Fix the design, win races.

mad mick · May 2, 2012

Mr Squiggle said:
Both were on soft front...not sure about rear tyres. But I think they had identical combinations.

Lorenzo has been quoted as saying he "would have won with the different tyre".....which basically equates to "I could have beaten Stoner if I had a (perceived) tyre advantage." He looked quite perplexed that Stoner had beaten him....it was definitely a psychological blow for Casey.

michaelm said:
I believe stoner, pedrosa and lorenzo all had the same tyres.

Thanks guys,

Mick

yamaka46 · May 2, 2012

birdman said:
You talk about times from 2005. I noticed the 2006 Ducati won the race in Jerez. Capi pole time 1'39.064. Race fasted lap Capi 1'41.248. Capi should have won the championship. He didnt, because he wasnt good enough. Thats maybe why Capi is not in the top 20 of all time. Guess who is?

Think you may have forgotten a small point about Capirossi in 2006 - the first lap accident at Catalunya...

http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2007/Capirossi+Melandri+2006+Catalunya+crash

mt1960 · May 2, 2012

birdman said:
Should Ducati wheel out the 06 Duc for Rossi to try, just to see how it 'feels'? I would think an A/B comparison of the 06 vs the 12 Ducati would be very handy just to see if they ran off track somewhere.

They've just flogged it, haven't they? Or if not, it's sitting in the dealers yard waiting on a bid.

My favourite is still the Aprilia Cube. But it was a POS, ala Ducati. Where's Jumkie, notice that even in the full prototype period an innovative POS bike didnt win races? Who do you blame for the failure of the Aprilia. Fix the design, win races.

The Cube was another example of F1 trying to build a GP bike and failing (Cosworth).

The Aprilia had massive power, ridiculously fast in a straight line, but the huge gobs of power were no good - you had to keep off the gas for so long until you could get it upright that the lesser-powered bikes were on the power and driving down the road. The Cosworth boys had spent their whole lives just getting as much power as possible, they didn't cotton on to the whole 'usable' power thing.

That is something else that is being levelled at Ducati - the engine is the(?) most powerful out there, as shown by the top trap speeds, but the delivery is such that it upsets the front.

Who knows - us lesser mortals won't learn much at the tight and twisty Estoril... wait till Le Mans, I guess.

MotoChick · May 2, 2012

Jumkie said:
It really didn't bother good sir, Moto2 isn't worth watching as I have been told, right Pov?

Dear MotoChick, as my fine friend Arrabbiata1 suggested, feel free to PM me. Click on my avi and then the private message button. That is your personal pic on your avi right? I'm just asking because the pic on my avi is of me too. I'll give you a brief explanation here, but I would be more than happy to explain and get you caught up to speed on all things MotoGP over a glass of wine. Regarding your insightful question, yes, I believe you are talking about the incident where Cal Crutchlow (black bike green helmet) appeared to be out of control in the opening laps of a 27-lap race and ran across the race line and collided into Nicky Hayden (that is the red bike you are referring to). It is actually legal in MotoGP. Its part of the DORNA (that is the series promoter of the sport) strategic plan of making the racing more interesting, a strategy known as WREK.

Yes, very much legal. The rider was simply engaging a rule that says any ambitious rider can make contact with Nicky Hayden in the opening laps of a race. Many a rider has invoked this rule, some even in the latter stages of the race (Pedrosa, Lorenzo, Kalio, DeAngelis, the list goes on and on). So I can understand your arenacross comparison, a sport known for its gratuitous contact and block passing due to its tight spaces and the constant egging on of its gladiator style crowd. Sure, the GP track is over a couple miles long and the width of its surface is wide enough to host semi-truck racing, but don’t let the spacious breath of the tarmac fool you. Mr. Kropotkin here below is our most respected and knowledgeable member of Powerslide; and is actually a powerful paddock insider who is proposing changes to this rule. Not because it is inequitable but rather it does not incite the desired effect of capturing headlines (Nicky hardly ever complains making it difficult for the journalists and DORNA to "promote" the series), as historically, any other rider merely crowded by another has generate much paddock chatter fearlessly reported by the sport’s media, even egged on by skillfully asking provocative questions that would appear to add fuel to the word brawls between riders (again similar to arenacross), notwithstanding, even race direction sanctions have ensued (search Kropotkin’s fine and informative site, motomatters.com, key words: “Lorenzo & Pedrosa complain about dangerous riding”, no that’s night a typo, it’s the same guys who have engaged in the perfectly legal rule of colliding with Nicky Hayden).

So MotoChick, again, feel free to PM me your questions. And of course, welcome to the forum.

You guys are so funny. Well some of you are and some of you are a little creepy

Thanks for all the responses. Im a little clearer now. I still think Green helmet guy should be reprimanded. I dont want to see anyone get hurt by someone elses negligence.

Your going to be dissapointed in me. I dont drink.................................................................wine that is. LOL. Wine is for pansies and girly girls. Im a tequila and beer type of girl. When its party time, ITS PARTY TIME!! No sipping allowed

Geonerd · May 2, 2012

MotoChick said:
You guys are so funny. Well some of you are and some of you are a little creepy

Thanks for all the responses. Im a little clearer now. I still think Green helmet guy should be reprimanded. I dont want to see anyone get hurt by someone elses negligence.

Your going to be disappointed in me. I don't drink.................................................................wine that is. LOL. Wine is for pansies and girly girls. Im a tequila and beer type of girl. When its party time, ITS PARTY TIME!! No sipping allowed

You've come to the right forum!

Read all about Powerslide's epic race trips...

http://www.powerslide.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=8232

http://www.powerslide.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=13915

http://www.powerslide.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=13916

http://www.powerslide.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=14322

I 'suspect' you'd be more than welcome to join the next one....

Talpa · May 2, 2012

birdman said:
You talk about times from 2005. I noticed the 2006 Ducati won the race in Jerez. Capi pole time 1'39.064. Race fasted lap Capi 1'41.248. Capi should have won the championship. He didnt, because he wasnt good enough. Thats maybe why Capi is not in the top 20 of all time. Guess who is?

Should Ducati wheel out the 06 Duc for Rossi to try, just to see how it 'feels'? I would think an A/B comparison of the 06 vs the 12 Ducati would be very handy just to see if they ran off track somewhere.

There was absolutely nothing dull or simplistic about the 2002 Honda V5, or the 2005 Yamaha M1. I just wish Rossi wasnt riding them (thats a joke Talpa). He deserved to, same as Stoner today.

Rossi kicking Biaggi's ... was dissapointing, not dull and boring. It was also predictable, because he kept doing it for years. Yes I know we aready had this discussion on so called boring, predictable racing. I doubt anyone found the bikes dull. My favourite is still the Aprilia Cube. But it was a POS, ala Ducati. Where's Jumkie, notice that even in the full prototype period an innovative POS bike didnt win races? Who do you blame for the failure of the Aprilia. Fix the design, win races.

Not a bad idea to roll out the 06 990 for Ducati, certainly worth a try at present.

Either that or bring one of those 990 M1s from Rossis house and disguise it in Red.....

Probably would have done better

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