Is KTM on the Brink of Withdrawal from MotoGP?

I wonder if they'll just increase the number of bikes for other manufacturers in 2026, or if they'll let BMW/Suzuki in.

JFM01 said:

They'd damn sure pay pretty well.
Toprak and Pedro at the Honda factory team in 2026, make it happen!

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It would be a terrible waste unless the team improves considerably.

Given what I read about Razgatlioglu, I'm thinking that given how refined and sophisticated his riding style is (e.g. coming into corners with the back tyre off the ground), I wonder if he's very much adapted to WSBK racing, and whether that style will work in MotoGP or not. I'm sure that other top-level riders will be equally specialised, and I wonder if swapping from a series to another series becomes more difficult the more sophisticated a rider's riding style becomes.

AnnoyingTwit said:

It would be a terrible waste unless the team improves considerably.

Given what I read about Razgatlioglu, I'm thinking that given how refined and sophisticated his riding style is (e.g. coming into corners with the back tyre off the ground), I wonder if he's very much adapted to WSBK racing, and whether that style will work in MotoGP or not. I'm sure that other top-level riders will be equally specialised, and I wonder if swapping from a series to another series becomes more difficult the more sophisticated a rider's riding style becomes.

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Depends on how quickly he can adapt

AnnoyingTwit said:

Once a sport achieves 'big bucks' status, it stops being a sport really. I disagree that football has avoided this, particularly in the UK where I live. I also don't think it was the change to 4-strokes that was the crucial factor. Even if that change hadn't been made, I think we would be in the same situation. I feel that the change to 4-strokes was to ensure some sort of match between what is being raced, and what is being sold, to keep the manufacturers engaged.

The crossing of the Rubicon point for me was when coverage was no longer widely available to all on free-to-air TV, but only via various subscription and paid sources. This creates the bigger revenue stream that makes sports a financial plaything, rather than real sport.

I still watch and enjoy MotoGP, but it is now something different from what it was decades ago. The same is happening to all sports. As soon as a sport becomes popular enough that people will pay significant amounts to watch it, eventually that will happen.

EDIT: KTM employees (unless this has changed) to go unpaid over Christmas. KTM workers to go unpaid over Christmas. It's going to be hard to justify a MotoGP team and their status as a constructor if their employees are having their paychecks delayed like this. If it continues to happen, even occasionally.

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Yes the subscription TV thing makes money for a few people/the owners of a sport rather than doing snything resembling nourishing the grass roots of a sport/a sport as a whole.

The other thing is that as was discussed on here from the start, and has been magnified in recent years, the increasing uniformity of the bikes, and even all the aero and ride height stuff, is to best use the control tire. A control tire might have been better for Dorna who iirc were paying for the tires of the satellite teams when the tire war was extant, but I can’t for the life of me see how the bikes being designed to suit the tires is cheaper for the sport overall than devising tires to fit bikes. The control tire has hardly resulted in an even field either.

If overall the tyres were fairly even then multiple tyre manufacturers is good because it adds diversity to who podiums, however if one tyre manufacturer has a significant advantage then it reduces podium diversity

mikesbytes said:

If overall the tyres were fairly even then multiple tyre manufacturers is good because it adds diversity to who podiums, however if one tyre manufacturer has a significant advantage then it reduces podium diversity

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Yes if there was no control tire we might end up with bikes of one make taking the first 8 places in a race.

AnnoyingTwit said:

I remember Kawasaki fulfilling the terms of their contract.

Acosta to Gresini? Not this year, but I could imagine Acosta being preferred to Alex Marquez and Fermin Aldeguer if Fermin doesn't step up and Marquez doesn't step up to a higher level. VR46 may be a possibility. Clearly Aprillia is there too. Not sure the Japanese teams will hit the front soon enough to be an option.

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Another option is Aprilia. If I were Massimo Rivola and Acosta became available, I wouldn't hesitate on dropping Fernandez for even a second and somehow then get him into the factory team the following yr.

It seems like the writing is on the wall for KTM to leave. Maybe not in 2025 but the new regulations will force them to develop a new bike for 2027 while maintaining and improving the existing one for the next 2 years. Unless Red Bull steps in and offers a lot of financial support, I think that kind of investment has to be nearly impossible given their current financial woes.

jvs9932 said:

It seems like the writing is on the wall for KTM to leave. Maybe not in 2025 but the new regulations will force them to develop a new bike for 2027 while maintaining and improving the existing one for the next 2 years. Unless Red Bull steps in and offers a lot of financial support, I think that kind of investment has to be nearly impossible given their current financial woes.

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Wow if you think KTM is trouble, check out the shape that VW is in at the moment. VW has the largest corporate debt of any company in history, more than 300 billion dollars, with 35,000 employee terminations apparently in the cards over time. Could Ducati be the next company to face the axe ?

Ducati Motor Holding S.p.A is an Italian motorcycle manufacturing company headquartered in Bologna, Italy. The company is directly owned by Italian automotive manufacturer Lamborghini, whose German parent company is Audi, itself owned by the Volkswagen Group.

The difference with VW I feel is, they have a large number of successful brands that they could sell off if needed. Including:

Audi (which now includes an F1 team valued at over a billion dollars)
Porsche
SEAT
Lamborghini
Bentley
MAN (trucks)

Ducati is also more popular than MV Augusta and GAS GAS, which very few people outside of niche hobbies will have heard of. Unfortunately, their size means they will be bailed out by the govt as 'too big to fail', just like the big 3 US automakers were.

DavidSim said:

Wow if you think KTM is trouble, check out the shape that VW is in at the moment. VW has the largest corporate debt of any company in history, more than 300 billion dollars, with 35,000 employee terminations apparently in the cards over time. Could Ducati be the next company to face the axe ?

Ducati Motor Holding S.p.A is an Italian motorcycle manufacturing company headquartered in Bologna, Italy. The company is directly owned by Italian automotive manufacturer Lamborghini, whose German parent company is Audi, itself owned by the Volkswagen Group.

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KTM would be thrilled with a top 7 finish. Ducati generally fills the podium, sells a ton of bikes, and signed the biggest name in the game for next year. So I’m gonna say they’re sticking around. But you never know…

Sounds like if KTM racing survives, it will slip down the field as others out develop it. It’s survival in MotoGP may depend on Redbull not dropping them

Honda-Nissan merger......

What will happen to the motorcycles and Honda involvement in MotoGP in that case?

Times are a changin'.....

Bern1 said:

Honda-Nissan merger......

What will happen to the motorcycles and Honda involvement in MotoGP in that case?

Times are a changin'.....

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There are a lot of things in play in the world now, anything could happen. Was reading about solid state batteries that will soon power electric vehicles that will give a big incease in range, this could shake up the 2 wheel landscape too.

When the battery energy density improves then electric lifestyle motorbikes will be a thing. The new world order will see some manufacturers succeed and some fail

DavidSim said:

There are a lot of things in play in the world now, anything could happen. Was reading about solid state batteries that will soon power electric vehicles that will give a big incease in range, this could shake up the 2 wheel landscape too.

Pioneering advancements in solid-state battery technology for energy storage

Tokyo, Japan (SPX) Dec 23, 2024 - Recent strides in solid-state battery technology are setting the stage for a transformative era in energy storage. These advancements hold promise for revolutionizing electric vehicles and renewable

www.spacedaily.com

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mikesbytes said:

When the battery energy density improves then electric lifestyle motorbikes will be a thing. The new world order will see some manufacturers succeed and some fail

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According to this article, MotoE is going to have a new battery for the 2025/6 seasons. However, what they have done is gone for a lighter battery of the same capacity and range. The races will not get longer, but the lighter weight (about 8.5kg less) will mean more performance. The new bike will weigh about 215kg. Still heavier than a MotoGP bike plus race-starting fuel. +-
predicted to be 'closer to' Moto2 speeds, but not faster than Moto2.

The article also mentions fitting all the sessions into a race weekend, and that longer MotoE races would put pressure on that. And, that reducing the weight of the bikes (including battery) also improves safety.


In Formula E, not limited by running during a fossil fuel based series' weekend, they are increasing the battery capacity.

Formula E awarded the contract for Gen4 batteries to Podium Advanced Technologies, who currently provide the MotoE batteries. These will have 55kw/hr compared to 38.5kw/hr for the current batteries. But, it appears that the limits may be artificial ones as the series defines 'usable energy'. It depends on which source is read, however. There are some claims that races might last as long as 75 minutes, versus a current length of 45-50 minutes.


The best common road-going batteries for electric motorcycles seem to be about 20 plus a couple of kw/hr. From what I can see, this is ... juuussstttt enough for touring, with multiple charging stops on a full day of touring. But, I think that battery capacity needs to double for a good electric tourier. Commuter bikes are already here. But, it's touring (and racing) that I'm most curious about, and they aren't here yet.

There was a bike that I saw announced with a much larger battery. But, it was only a pre-release photo and description I saw, and I can't find it now. Whatever it was (and if my memory hasn't failed and it does exist), it certainly doesn't seem to have achieved visibility on the net.

BYD has said that it's planning to partner with two-wheel manufacturer TAILG on battery tech, but I couldn't find news if this was going to focus on commuting bikes, motorcycles, and scooters, or sports/touring bikes. BYD to develop electric motorcycle batteries with Chinese two-wheeler giant

AnnoyingTwit said:

I remember Kawasaki fulfilling the terms of their contract.

Acosta to Gresini? Not this year, but I could imagine Acosta being preferred to Alex Marquez and Fermin Aldeguer if Fermin doesn't step up and Marquez doesn't step up to a higher level. VR46 may be a possibility. Clearly Aprillia is there too. Not sure the Japanese teams will hit the front soon enough to be an option.

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True, they entered in 2009 (their final year) with the Hayate Racing Team to run 2 Kawasaki bikes. (PS: 2009 was the year of the Big global finanial crisis). Hayate Racing Team did manage to score a single podium that year.

MichaelBolton said:

KTM claims 'concrete' Hamilton talks over MotoGP team buy-in

KTM motorsport boss Pit Beirer has claimed the beleaguered Austrian manufacturer has been in conversation with a high-profile potential investor - seven-time Formula 1 champion Lewis Hamilton

www.the-race.com

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It would be interesting to know the conditions around the investment. How one thinks they can make a profit out of a company with 2 billion debt will be questionable