I heard this weird thing about Vinales

Theo said:

When the pensioner went back to Yamahahahahaha, he was number 2.

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Iamapony said:

Yeah, someone please quote some source for Yamaha not having a pecking order. I guess they are the only socialist team. So, MV and VR are paid the same? And VR and JLo were paid the same? And Spies was paid the same? And so on, and so forth. It sure appears that the Yamaha follows Rossi's advice more than Vinales' view. Pedrosa gets the same stuff as MM, but he sure as heck ain't the number one rider..

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JPSLotus said:

When Rossi and Lorenzo were offered 2 year deals for the 17-18 seasons, it was reported they were identical. Kind of pathetic given Lorenzo was coming off a world title and Rossi was not.

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Hollywood said:

FP2 ended with 5 different manufactures in the top....

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Holypuck said:

I agree. However that is not what I meant.

We must not forget how important psychology can be for a rider (well for any athlete, really) and almost anyone would feel a bit "inferior" in the Yamaha box due to Rossi's immense exposure, and no one really likes that. This is really not Rossi's fault so I'm not blaming him (for once ) but is just undeniable IMHO.

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Iamapony said:

I thought it was something different. If that is true, then it looks like Rossi was made the number one. No wonder Lorenzo was annoyed. Honda did the same injustice with Hayden. They definitely made Pedrosa the top guy in 2007. Considering that Yamaha got MovieStar back because of Rossi, I would say it made sense from a pure economic position.

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Jumkie said:

Bar rumor indeed. Good of you to qualify it as such. I've partied with some paddock workers and GP vendors, the conversation get real interesting after a few brews. In the last year I've hosted some paddock workers and the son of a vendor (started off as, hey can you show a buddy around that is visiting LA) and have since become very genuine personal friends. Baseball games, shooting range (Euros seem to like to have a real American experience) and various other activities, theme parks, Hollywood tours, etc. stuff like that. From what I gather, the paddock is like one big family, close and disfunctional, like most communities. The US is far from the Euro racing dynamic, and I sometimes feel like its refreshing to hang-out here which I sense allows them to let their guard down a bit. I’ve never heard anything super juicy that I haven’t got from just watching, listening, reading, and observing the dynamic we are all privy to anyway.

To rift off of what you’re saying though, rumor or not, it is obvious from watching Mav that he is unhappy at Yamaha. Listen, Lorenzo is a multiple Yamaha champion and his style was the perfect fit for the M1, on the heels of a title, where Yamaha beat their arch rival Honda, he left (in reality he was pushed out)! I can’t remember who said this recently, I think it was Lorenzo’s agent, but he said it was ‘hell’ at Yamaha under Rossi’s influence. [EDIT: or was this Zarco's agent? I'm sure someone will correct me. ] This dynamic didn’t magically disappear, and I’d say it's actually gotten worse, considering the ‘mechanisms of tire “democracy “’ last year, and the “new” changes to the racing rules, that is, it's not only a ‘Yamaha’ thing Vinalez is contending with a Rossi-centric dynamic, as I’ve said before, he has realized what it's like to be Dorna’s “teammate” (you get my meaning)? I seriously doubt Mav is considering Cuntslowing his contract, but as to the message that he is unhappy, yeah, no ...., just observe his body language, not to mention he said he has to “bite his tongue” (I’m sure I’ve read him say this). Why would he have to "bite his tongue"? I'm no longer a Lorenzo fan, but Ducati couldn't have enticed him to ride their career killer bike if he was happy at Yahama. Why wasn't Lorenzo happy at Yamaha?

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Jumkie said:

and one on the bottom.





(Sorry, couldn't resist).

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

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Jumkie said:

Bar rumor indeed. Good of you to qualify it as such. I've partied with some paddock workers and GP vendors, the conversation get real interesting after a few brews. In the last year I've hosted some paddock workers and the son of a vendor (started off as, hey can you show a buddy around that is visiting LA) and have since become very genuine personal friends. Baseball games, shooting range (Euros seem to like to have a real American experience) and various other activities, theme parks, Hollywood tours, etc. stuff like that. From what I gather, the paddock is like one big family, close and disfunctional, like most communities. The US is far from the Euro racing dynamic, and I sometimes feel like its refreshing to hang-out here which I sense allows them to let their guard down a bit. I’ve never heard anything super juicy that I haven’t got from just watching, listening, reading, and observing the dynamic we are all privy to anyway.

To rift off of what you’re saying though, rumor or not, it is obvious from watching Mav that he is unhappy at Yamaha. Listen, Lorenzo is a multiple Yamaha champion and his style was the perfect fit for the M1, on the heels of a title, where Yamaha beat their arch rival Honda, he left (in reality he was pushed out)! I can’t remember who said this recently, I think it was Lorenzo’s agent, but he said it was ‘hell’ at Yamaha under Rossi’s influence. [EDIT: or was this Zarco's agent? I'm sure someone will correct me. ] This dynamic didn’t magically disappear, and I’d say it's actually gotten worse, considering the ‘mechanisms of tire “democracy “’ last year, and the “new” changes to the racing rules, that is, it's not only a ‘Yamaha’ thing Vinalez is contending with a Rossi-centric dynamic, as I’ve said before, he has realized what it's like to be Dorna’s “teammate” (you get my meaning)? I seriously doubt Mav is considering Cuntslowing his contract, but as to the message that he is unhappy, yeah, no ...., just observe his body language, not to mention he said he has to “bite his tongue” (I’m sure I’ve read him say this). Why would he have to "bite his tongue"? I'm no longer a Lorenzo fan, but Ducati couldn't have enticed him to ride their career killer bike if he was happy at Yahama. Why wasn't Lorenzo happy at Yamaha?

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Jumkie said:

and one on the bottom.





(Sorry, couldn't resist).

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

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michaelm said:

Both the moves by multiple world title winning Yamaha riders to Ducati were about status in the team.

I also don't think the tire change would have happened last year if the 'new' tire hadn't been Rossi's preferred tire. That is what would annoy me were I was Vinales, that the bike and tire were good for him when he got there, serendipitously no doubt, and Yamaha didn't even fight to keep the old tire along with the new one, which it is now recognised by a regulation is what should have happened.

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synn said:

Yamaha does not have a number 1 and 2 riders.
Both get the same equipment and support, there are no clauses that stop them from fighting each other on track and the engine spec is frozen only after both riders agree on it.

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JPSLotus said:

When Rossi and Lorenzo were offered 2 year deals for the 17-18 seasons, it was reported they were identical. Kind of pathetic given Lorenzo was coming off a world title and Rossi was not.

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synn said:

Please stop this new tyre narrative.
Vinales straight up admitted by middle of last year that the chassis he picked after the tests was a dud as Rossi said , which was not apparent at the start of the season and only became apparent in the euro rounds.

Both riders were in complete agreement on what things were wrong 2/3rds into the season.

Every time this story is brought up, someone sets the record straight and a few weeks later, it starts all over again.

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michaelm said:

Your narrative and mine seem to be at variance, which doesn't mean either of us is correct, or exclude both of us being wrong, of course.

In my narrative Vinales, after being at the pointy end of the field on the "old" tire in preseason testing had 3 wins, a 4th and a 2nd to go along with 1 dnf in the first 6 races of the season (the 2nd placing coming at Mugello, his last race on the original tire), was one of three riders who voted for the original tire to continue, and a regulation was promulgated post-season that no mid-season tire removal was to occur in future. If you can demonstrate to me those things didn't actually occur, I would consider changing my narrative.

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p4p1 said:

I'm pretty sure Mugello was actually the first race with the new tyre.

Also in regards to Vinales now admitting there was a mistake with the chassis, at the time he was adamant the bike was fine, it was the tyres. Then the results dropped when Rossi got the chassis he wanted which caused them to make another chassis which didn't improve things. Vinales would be expected to toe the company line and say that the original chassis that they went away from was the wrong choice rather than making his team look like morons after they discarded what was in his opinion a perfectly good chassis. He was also denied the chance to run his preferred chassis and had to run the newer versions of the chassis.

In regards to the tyre change, I am of the opinion that the original tyre was very troublesome given the amount of 'unexplained' crashes where riders would come back and say that the data showed no difference from the previous lap in where they braked etc.

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