Honda's RC213V Engine
- Thread starter Kropotkin
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Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
holy .... kropos back
i thought it was a 72°?
interesting,maybe thats why ducati haven't changed their engine
i thought it was a 72°?
interesting,maybe thats why ducati haven't changed their engine
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
good question, just based on the sound i always thought the firing order was much more even than the ducatis. but what do i know...
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
Measuring the head gasket angles, I get (edit!) 74.1 degrees.
(This is probably +/- a degree or two. Every time I measure I get s slightly different angle.)
Since we aren't looking straight along the crank axis, dropping our point of view should (right?) have the effect of widening this angle. Maybe 75 or so? Defo not a 90, IMO.
Strangely enough, for a bike running upright, 4 pistons at the indicated angles will produce ~20% MORE of the mythical VSG force than an L90 with two cylinders pointed dead forward and two straight up. Cos(~56) + Cos (~49) > Cos(90) + Cos(0)
Not that it matters. Any Coriolis drag created by the pistons will be 1) very minimal, and 2) self cancelling. (A retreating piston gives back any rotational momentum it absorbed on the upstroke.)
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
Its a ....... Honda.. Honda ....... rules all.. It does not matter if its a V or an inline a twin or an opposed as long as its a Honda... When will yall learn
I agree about the 72 and 75 deg angle, but you have to really squint to mistake them for 90deg.
Rossi and jb seem to have mainly complained about diffculties getting the weight distribution/ site of the engine right, and rossi about the manner of the power delivery, in regard to the ducati engine.
If rossi jumps back on the yamaha and is immediately competitive with george, something I won't be betting against myself, I guess it will prove the ducati was flawed, for him anyway.
If rossi jumps back on the yamaha and is immediately competitive with george, something I won't be betting against myself, I guess it will prove the ducati was flawed, for him anyway.
Given the innate braking and cornering stability of the M1 and Furusawa's comments about the 'centroid triangle' of balance, the importance of frequency in suspension travel and its' relationship to weight-transfer - all things Rossi has complained about - i think there is general consensus that the Ducati is flawed.
If they can take those words of wisdom and convert them into a better-handling bike (not even a great-handling bike), they are going to do themselves no end of good and depreciate the Rossi development legend even further
IMO he is a great rider with a singular ability to describe the effects he is experiencing. That, along with a smart engineer like JB to interpret that feedback and relate it to settings at the track or feedback to the design engineers back at the factory are what has made him so successful.
But, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear - the M1 was inherently a good motorcycle that needed someone talented to push it and get that feedback. Furusawa was a design genius that knew it wasn't just about numbers, weight, HP, stats - it was also organic in that a human was piloting it and so the bike needed to reward the touch of a talented man
I have never been what would be described as a Rossi devotee, but I have no doubt at all he will be pushing for a podium from the off. He is race-fit, despite riding a dog for two years, it isn't like he has gone away and had to come back up to the speed and power - he has been slower by a second or so... I think he will take to the M1 like a duck to water - if only to prove his detractors wrong and to prove to himself he still has that elusive something.
If they can take those words of wisdom and convert them into a better-handling bike (not even a great-handling bike), they are going to do themselves no end of good and depreciate the Rossi development legend even further
IMO he is a great rider with a singular ability to describe the effects he is experiencing. That, along with a smart engineer like JB to interpret that feedback and relate it to settings at the track or feedback to the design engineers back at the factory are what has made him so successful.
But, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear - the M1 was inherently a good motorcycle that needed someone talented to push it and get that feedback. Furusawa was a design genius that knew it wasn't just about numbers, weight, HP, stats - it was also organic in that a human was piloting it and so the bike needed to reward the touch of a talented man
I have never been what would be described as a Rossi devotee, but I have no doubt at all he will be pushing for a podium from the off. He is race-fit, despite riding a dog for two years, it isn't like he has gone away and had to come back up to the speed and power - he has been slower by a second or so... I think he will take to the M1 like a duck to water - if only to prove his detractors wrong and to prove to himself he still has that elusive something.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
The photo
This photo was just to show beyond doubt that the Honda 800cc engine was a 70something degrees angle.
Is it possible that they changed the entire engine architecture in the transition from 800cc to 1000?
And... why?
72° (or 75°) and 90° may be tricky to tell if the angle of view is not dead on.
This photo was just to show beyond doubt that the Honda 800cc engine was a 70something degrees angle.
Is it possible that they changed the entire engine architecture in the transition from 800cc to 1000?
And... why?
IMHO Rossi doesn't ride a dog right now.He is riding a different bike to Yamaha.And can't handle it.Furuzawa is the M1 IMHO.Not Rossi or Burgess.
I'm really pissed of at Rossi's comments that it's all about the bike.In recent interviews he is still saying we will see if the bike gets better.Not one word about his own efforts,which are plain clear.He is outpaced by rookies,satellite bikes and Hayden after copying his setup,and almost OK with it! That's not legend-behaviour in my book.
On the M1 he will not be near Lorenzo.I will bet money on it.But fight for podiums maybe and that's good enough for his manager Ezy.
The only chance he's got to beat Lorenzo next year is if Bridgestone develope tires that happen to suit Rossi better than Lorenzo.Then he has to be quite lucky.
I think Ducati is(was)just too small to keep up when Bridgestone accelerate developement.So,the rider HAS TO adapt.
Like Hayden says,who has been on the thing longer.
This is from the last part of the article. link below:
Nicky was also asked if he had any advice for Spies: "Just for him to adjust his style to the bike, and not try to make it into a Yamaha."
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
72° (or 75°) and 90° may be tricky to tell if the angle of view is not dead on.
I measured it at closest to 72.
