Hondas Perfect Storm

A long time ago I wrote here that "Stoner on a Honda would give Rossi the ultimate run for his money".

Now there is Lorenzo as well in that picture.

I would not be surprised (nor displeased) if Stoner wins the title on the Honda in 2011, ahead of Lorenzo and Rossi.

For 2012, I like to think that Ducati and Rossi can win again.

Bunyip said:

I thought I,d never see the day that Rog would say this!



Is this a new Roger I haven,t seen before. I like what I am seeing

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Dont worry bunny, im not turning into a stoner fan. Thing is i believe 2011 is stoner's chance to get his second championship, i think this will be helped if the engine rule stays. This i believe will give him the advantage over lorenzo. Im not expecting Rossi to jump on the ready made 2011 Ducati and win the championship but i'd never rule it out ! I think Rossi will strike again in 2012, the bike he will be developing during 2011. I don't think pedrosa has it in him. He is fast out the gate but that's about all. I used to say he was another Biaggi, but i think i do Biaggi a dis-service there. At least biaggi would fight for wins.

If the Engine rule goes back to unlimited i think Lorenzo will win the 2011 championship. If the engine rule stays or is only increased by 2 or 3 i think Stoner has a golden chance to seize it.

chopperman said:

Dont worry bunny, im not turning into a stoner fan. Thing is i believe 2011 is stoner's chance to get his second championship, i think this will be helped if the engine rule stays. This i believe will give him the advantage over lorenzo. Im not expecting Rossi to jump on the ready made 2011 Ducati and win the championship but i'd never rule it out ! I think Rossi will strike again in 2012, the bike he will be developing during 2011. I don't think pedrosa has it in him. He is fast out the gate but that's about all. I used to say he was another Biaggi, but i think i do Biaggi a dis-service there. At least biaggi would fight for wins.

If the Engine rule goes back to unlimited i think Lorenzo will win the 2011 championship. If the engine rule stays or is only increased by 2 or 3 i think Stoner has a golden chance to seize it.

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I wonder if part of Pedrosa's problem is his lack of mass. It was pointed out by a journo quoted in another

thread that Dani's lightness makes it difficult if downright impossible to get sufficient weight in the rear end

hence (and yes I know he's a 250 style rider) he is unable (assuming he desired it) to slide the back end around

in order to copy the style of Stoner and Rossi - so that he would be able to ride aggressively. Naturally - someone

will point out that Lorenzo does not feel the need to slide the rear end and continues to be competitive. Still I wonder

if Pedrosa might not be more competitive if he were able to utilize some of Rossi and Stoner's technique during the latter stages of the race.

Keshav said:

I wonder if part of Pedrosa's problem is his lack of mass. It was pointed out by a journo quoted in another

thread that Dani's lightness makes it difficult if downright impossible to get sufficient weight in the rear end

hence (and yes I know he's a 250 style rider) he is unable (assuming he desired it) to slide the back end around

in order to copy the style of Stoner and Rossi - so that he would be able to ride aggressively. Naturally - someone

will point out that Lorenzo does not feel the need to slide the rear end and continues to be competitive. Still I wonder

if Pedrosa might not be more competitive if he were able to utilize some of Rossi and Stoner's technique during the latter stages of the race.

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I don't think his weight has anything to do with it for these reasons. He manages to get the weight over the rear enough to pull of starts that Drag racers would be proud of plus when he can get out the front he can build quite a sizable lead. This says to me he has no problem handling the bike, plus his pole times are also very good. His problem is in the ball's department i think. He can fight the odd turn here and there but always ends up getting his ... handed to him.

chopperman said:

I don't think his weight has anything to do with it for these reasons. He manages to get the weight over the rear enough to pull of starts that Drag racers would be proud of plus when he can get out the front he can build quite a sizable lead.

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In a race start, you want your weight forward to prevent wheelies, which is more critical than rear traction. But overall weight is a huge deal in low-end acceleration, more so than weight distribution, which is why Pedrosa's low weight is his biggest asset in strong starts.

Agile said:

In a race start, you want your weight forward to prevent wheelies, which is more critical than rear traction. But overall weight is a huge deal in low-end acceleration, more so than weight distribution, which is why Pedrosa's low weight is his biggest asset in strong starts.

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Maybe so, who knows the real effects with gizmo like launch control ect. Do you think Pedros low weight inpeads his overall racing performance ?

chopperman said:

Maybe so, who knows the real effects with gizmo like launch control ect. Do you think Pedros low weight inpeads his overall racing performance ?

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Many have argued it impedes him in braking. Going by the laws of physics you would think low mass would help his initial acceleration and hence his starts, but the power of the current honda engine and as you say the current honda electronics may be making a more sizeable contribution; stoner was the notable fast starter rather than him in 2007.

out of interest here are some rider weights.

stoner=128lbs

Hayden=150lbs



Dovi=132lbs

Dani=112lbs



jorge=121lbs

rossi= ?



edwards=146lbs

spies=160lbs



this info was taken out of the 2010 laguna seca program which is why Rossi's current weight was unavailable.



I still stand by my claim until someone can prove to me otherwise, Dani's weight does not impede his race. His lap times prove this. Sure his weight could be a disadvantage in some areas but it is an advantage in others.

Would be interesting to know the power of the bikes above so we could work out any power to weight ratio advantages.

chopperman said:

I don't think his weight has anything to do with it for these reasons. He manages to get the weight over the rear enough to pull of starts that Drag racers would be proud of plus when he can get out the front he can build quite a sizable lead. This says to me he has no problem handling the bike, plus his pole times are also very good. His problem is in the ball's department i think. He can fight the odd turn here and there but always ends up getting his ... handed to him.

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Agree compa. And i'll add, Toni Elias is not significantly different in size & weight, yet he had no problem sliding, throwing, backing (like BM) the bike around. I'd say its a ball issue (if thats what we r calling little nutz these days).



Nice of u to put ur Laguna 10 program to good use. Perhaps u can get Rossis weight from the Indy 10 program.

Jumkie said:

Agree compa. And i'll add, Toni Elias is not significantly different in size & weight, yet he had no problem sliding, throwing, backing (like BM) the bike around. I'd say its a ball issue (if thats what we r calling little nutz these days).



Nice of u to put ur Laguna 10 program to good use. Perhaps u can get Rossis weight from the Indy 10 program.

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Yeah, cheers compa. There a great source of information these programs. i didn't realise what a lump spies is. If weight is such as issue i doubt he will ever win anything (sarcasm)

jumkie, no way not balls, they're marbles.... Glass ones at that, can see straight through them.

Bunyip said:

Please Barry and Talpa........................nearly every thread gets contaminated with this petty arguing.

Part of the reason I,ve been gone for a while.

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I'll second that. The battering gets just tiresome and especially in the summer I have too much going on. New bike this year among them

So power slide become very much a low priority thing when there is no way to have discussion without one or two firing up the good old battle.

I would think the actual weight of the rider is always going to be a benefit if he'she is light. Its whether they have the shear physical strength and reaction to manhandle a bike around. This may be why we don't see a lot of sliding action from Pedrosa?

Lets face it if Say we saw Lorenzo, Stoner or Rossi keep there strength but somehow lose weight they'd be faster.



If you wanted to put weight into an equation it would have to be with other qualities eg:



Performance = ( - weight ) + strength + reactions + skill + etc. etc. etc. ....



but really weight itself is allways going to be better if minimised.



Unfortunately due to the general "build" of humans when weight drops so does strength so if its not that drop then its one of the other "qualities" that is lacking. And even then some of the qualities such as "skill" vary with other inputs eg.Stoner can ride the Duc. better in screamer config. others can't .



Mind you ...... Pedrosa is currently running second, and has been a major front runner for quite a few years now, so one might be better debating what qualities some of the other riders could possible change to get them anywhere near Pedrosa

Babelfish said:

I'll second that. The battering gets just tiresome and especially in the summer I have too much going on. New bike this year among them

So power slide become very much a low priority thing when there is no way to have discussion without one or two firing up the good old battle.

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Chicken.



What kinda bike? Post a pic buddy.

I think pedrosa's problem is between the ears.

Rootsman said:

I think pedrosa's problem is between the ears.

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Look .... I am not sure you guys are getting it but ........... Pedrosa is an "alien", ergo he's been performing pretty top notch ......... what is Pedrosa's "Problem" precisely that you see? I don't see it?



If I look at your rider's, you follow, Pedrosa looks like a God , would you not be better occupied finding whats keeping your riders from the top ?

chopperman said:

Maybe so, who knows the real effects with gizmo like launch control ect. Do you think Pedros low weight inpeads his overall racing performance ?

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I thought launch control was supposed to be banned? Yet Pedrosa starts blindingly fast every single time. I have never seen him blow the start since Qatar last year when his rocket starts began to happen.

I believe he has something both Dovi & Nicky did not have on the sister bike. If it was simply power to weight ratio then why does Dani not power out of slow corners so much faster than everyone else? The same effect should apply but it doesn't.

I think he has had a launch control for at least the last year and a half that has not been made available to any other Honda rider. It's basically made qualifying irrelevant because even if Dani qualifies in 8th he will more than likely still be in the lead at the first corner.

BarryMachine said:

Look .... I am not sure you guys are getting it but ........... Pedrosa is an "alien", ergo he's been performing pretty top notch ......... what is Pedrosa's "Problem" precisely that you see? I don't see it?



If I look at your rider's, you follow, Pedrosa looks like a God

, would you not be better occupied finding whats keeping your riders from the top ?

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Just my opinion mate, no need to get your knickers in a twist.

Rootsman said:

Just my opinion mate, no need to get your knickers in a twist.

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Well, I think you misread the situation again. Since I have no worries about Pedrosa, I have no twisted knickers. I just don't get why so many others do get themselves into a twisted knicker situation over Pedrosa. And you can't say Pedrosa doesn't phase you cos you already attribute a problem you have with Pedrosa as a problem he is experiencing ........ when clearly that is not the case, indeed Pedrosa is probably somewhat ignorant of your problem with him, Each time Pedrosa wins ..... does he still have "his problem"?

Dani can't get his ... back far enough cause it's been spanked too many times in Albertos bondage sessions