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Hondas Perfect Storm

Joined Aug 2007
824 Posts | 19+
Sydney
Firstly, I must dedicate this post to Chopperman(Roger), who quite rightly has given me a wake-up kick in the ribs (post). Either he is missing me, or has been bored and has been poking at a few ants nests.



Has Honda got all the ingredients for a world title in 2011??



1)Over the past year or two they have been poaching the likes of Suppo and some of Yamahas best engineers to form the basis of a strong team.

2) They are benefitting from the 6 engine rule ,by being able to have the deadly combination of the most powerful and longest lasting engines. Ducati have lost their speed advantage by reducing the rev-ceiling to make the engines last the season.From what I have seen, the Hondas have a lot more acceleration than the other bikes.

3) Signing Stoner. Many will argue ,but many commentators still regard him as the fastest guy in the field on equal equipment. Dennis Noyes and Kropotkin(?) I think, believe this to be the case.

4) Pedrosa getting stronger. I used not to rate him in the same league as the other 3 aliens, but have started to doubt this.

He has managed to largely eliminate all of his earlier weaknesses

- Poor wet weather rider- looks pretty good these days

- Poor under brakes- as strong as anybody this year

-Cant handle a one on one battle- done it a few times this year

I suspect Stoner will have his measure next year, but there might not be much in it.

Pedrosa will be spurred to perform at his absolute best.

5) Jeremy Burgess joins Stoner at Honda. Well maybe not, but it is a real possibility. Jeremy likes to nurture new young talent, and guiding Stoner to a repeat title and future consistent dominance could be the final satisfying chapter in the Burgess Story.

Both Lorenzo and Spies have team chief engineers they are happy with and wont want to replace. Ducati are a tight Italian team and may not want Burgess with them. Only jeremy knows what he is going to do next year, but a move to Honda could be the final piece that creates the "Perfect Storm for Honda

6) Rossi on the back foot next year. When the opposition was less strong as it was in 2003(?), Rossi was good enough to move to a weaker bike and still win. Now the opposition is much stronger, and the slimmest of deficiencies will be too much for Rossi to bridge. Don,t worry though boppers, because the Rossi legend will still be intact. He was never beaten on equal equipment while healthy (that was a fortuitous break- see Speedtv article), and he went down while fighting hard on inferior equipment, while trying to fulfill the Italian dream for all his fans. Good on him!

7) Will Yamaha lose the plot without Furusawa, Burgess and Rossi. Possibly not, but on balance you would have to expect them not to be at the same extraordinary level that they have achieved these past 3 years.



Thanks again Roger.....................you may have saved me from..................................neglect.
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hondas bike this season is the perfect storm performance wise, i belive thats all they need is stoner then honda will be the people to beat.



im not knocking stoner but i cant really see burgess wanting to work with him but who knows?, yes hes a great rider with raw talent but from the development side of things a big question mark still looms.



since 2007 i cant really say the ducati has got any better, performance is still there but it handles like a bag of chips.



when i heard the news of stoner signing to honda i said straight away he will possibly be the one to beat in 2011, the honda has serious performance but its loose handling wise and i think thats suits stoner's style he likes an aggresive motor.



the yamaha has great handling but i feel its just not up there performance wise.



2011 will be stoner vs lorenzo unless rossi has some magic left in him.
 
hondas bike this season is the perfect storm performance wise, i belive thats all they need is stoner then honda will be the people to beat.



im not knocking stoner but i cant really see burgess wanting to work with him but who knows?, yes hes a great rider with raw talent but from the development side of things a big question mark still looms.



since 2007 i cant really say the ducati has got any better, performance is still there but it handles like a bag of chips.



when i heard the news of stoner signing to honda i said straight away he will possibly be the one to beat in 2011, the honda has serious performance but its loose handling wise and i think thats suits stoner's style he likes an aggresive motor.



the yamaha has great handling but i feel its just not up there performance wise.



2011 will be Spies vs stoner vs lorenzo unless rossi has some magic left in him.





fixed it for ya
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Good thread, however there are a lot of holes in your theories.



Honda will be very strong no doubt, so will Yamaha, with Spies and the current pace setter in the factory squad, they will remain favourites. And claiming that Stoner is the best rider in the field is even more false than it ever was.......Bopping whilst calling others boppers in the same post, very BM
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As for claiming that Rossi doesn't have the competition he did in 2003-2004, thus discrediting that title, well that as bad as saying that Stoner only won his title in 2007 because of his superior bike and tires? No?



In 2004 the Yamaha hadn't even podiumed since early 2002, let alone won. Far from the current Duck. And I'm sure many would argue that beating Sete and Max at that time both on factory RC211Vs, possibly the best Motogp bike ever built, was a decent achievement on the M1, only age and the smaller factory could make Next season more challeging for vr than 2004, not competition. It's always been tough.



Yes the Honda comes off the turns better, but it's not dramaticlly superior here.

Hondas main strength will be it's superior reliability, that doesn't help much though if they give Jorge, or vr, the headstart they have this year.
 
Good thread, however there are a lot of holes in your theories.



Honda will be very strong no doubt, so will Yamaha, with Spies and the current pace setter in the factory squad, they will remain favourites. And claiming that Stoner is the best rider in the field is even more false than it ever was.......Bopping whilst calling others boppers in the same post, very BM
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As for claiming that Rossi doesn't have the competition he did in 2003-2004, thus discrediting that title, well that as bad as saying that Stoner only won his title in 2007 because of his superior bike and tires? No?



In 2004 the Yamaha hadn't even podiumed since early 2002, let alone won. Far from the current Duck. And I'm sure many would argue that beating Sete and Max at that time both on factory RC211Vs, possibly the best Motogp bike ever built, was a decent achievement on the M1, only age and the smaller factory could make Next season more challeging for vr than 2004, not competition. It's always been tough.



Yes the Honda comes off the turns better, but it's not dramaticlly superior here.

Hondas main strength will be it's superior reliability, that doesn't help much though if they give Jorge, or vr, the headstart they have this year.





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Still going on about 07
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Yeah Capi showed that the 07 Duc and tyres were really good
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What an absolute ........
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Boppers are incoherent blubbering raving Rossifans, nothing else
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You better read what Buny sad about 03-04 again, cos you seem to have what he said arse about as usual
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6) Rossi on the back foot next year. When the opposition was less strong as it was in 2003(?), Rossi was good enough to move to a weaker bike and still win. Now the opposition is much stronger, and the slimmest of deficiencies will be too much for Rossi to bridge.













Having trouble with the lenses in those moron glasses again Baz.....
 
6) Rossi on the back foot next year. When the opposition was less strong as it was in 2003(?), Rossi was good enough to move to a weaker bike and still win. Now the opposition is much stronger, and the slimmest of deficiencies will be too much for Rossi to bridge.













Having trouble with the lenses in those moron glasses again Baz.....





Thats all well and good, however I alreadt understand what Buny wrote.
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Its what you replied with that is incoherent nonsence
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Right, so you only 'understand' others with the same POV as you? Valuble contibuter you are then



Its nothing to do with your POV you .......!!



We can all tell you are a Bopper and hence know your point of view. Its just that you attemptto justify your Bopperings with incoherent and often self contradictory diatribe and idiocy ...... thats where the difficulty lies
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Please Barry and Talpa........................nearly every thread gets contaminated with this petty arguing.

Part of the reason I,ve been gone for a while.
 
Please Barry and Talpa........................nearly every thread gets contaminated with this petty arguing.

Part of the reason I,ve been gone for a while.

I've been watching TPB for several hours now. Time well spent, but i gotta take a break while my TV dinner is heating up.





Buny, I've heard this many times from members saying they stay away cuz of arguing, however, I have yet to understand why. Are people so lame that they can't skip this ....? Yeah, yeah so there is lots of banter, fighting, bickering, bla bla bla big ....... deal. If people are to lame and thin skinned to skip over the ........, then .... them, they're stupid. It takes me 1 sec to realize if a post is legit or just ........, sometimes I skip and sometimes I don't. Sometimes its amusing, sometimes it get a reaction. Some of it is mean spirited and some of it light hearted, but if people can't negotiate something here on the internet, no less, then .... them, they're stupid!



Rant off.





Good thread Buny, you make some interesting points. I for one didn't think Rossi would move to Ducati because its a pile of .... (I'm one of the ones who doesn't equate the 03 switch with much fanfare as some others). Ducati started moving heaven and earth a year ago to acquire Rossi. Therefore, this is my first point in responding to your proposal that Honda may have the perfect storm, that is to say, if Honda moved pieces to acquire a great rider/bike team, well so did Ducati. Second, Yamaha is still the best bike and I doubt much of that will change next year. Yamaha this year has two aces, next year they have an ace and a very high face card.



My third point is perhaps the most important, and I could have lead with it, that is, Honda still have a major negative energy at Repsol named Alberto Puig. He will stop at nothing to make his boy wonder the emphasis, which usually means detriment to others on the team, namely, Casey Stoner. Some think that there was bad blood that lead Stoner to look elsewhere, well you can times 2 that once Puig starts getting under Stoner's skin. I don't think Casey is under the spell of Puig, even if he did scout him out as GP talent back in the day. So if somebody pissed off Stoner at Ducati, well you can bet Alberto will probably have a similar effect on him. Les we all forget the tension by Alberto and Dovi at the moment. And of course, the way this ....... treated Nicky.



Lastly, if Casey is doing well you can bet your bottom dollar Puig/Pedrosa/Repsol won't give onc flying .... about it, so don't expect any team orders. I'm not so sure Dani learned his lesson from 06, as he still was given the keys to the Honda kingdom. Regardless that he didn't do .... with it, he is still the fav at the Spanish sponsored team, make no mistake.
 
My third point is perhaps the most important, and I could have lead with it, that is, Honda still have a major negative energy at Repsol named Alberto Puig. He will stop at nothing to make his boy wonder the emphasis, which usually means detriment to others on the team, namely, Casey Stoner. Some think that there was bad blood that lead Stoner to look elsewhere, well you can times 2 that once Puig starts getting under Stoner's skin. I don't think Casey is under the spell of Puig, even if he did scout him out as GP talent back in the day. So if somebody pissed off Stoner at Ducati, well you can bet Alberto will probably have a similar effect on him. Les we all forget the tension by Alberto and Dovi at the moment. And of course, the way this ....... treated Nicky.



I often wonder if Suppo was hired by Honda to take care of the "Puig problem". Mind you I don't think Puig is as bad as what you say. If Hayden had been performing it would all have seemed as trivial as it all was.
 
Good post Jum, I agree especially with the latter parts.





And bunny it's a good thread, don't be put off.
 
[quote name='jazkat' date='22 August 2010 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1282519780' ]



since 2007 i cant really say the ducati has got any better, performance is still there but it handles like a bag of chips



2011 will be stoner vs lorenzo unless rossi has some magic left in him.

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The man still has plenty of magic, the question is, does Ducati?
 
The man still has plenty of magic, the question is, does Ducati?



Yes indeed, the boys from Bologna certainly seem to have lost their way a bit of late, especially in WSBK-'Their' series, without TB. Haga has certainly dropped off. With Checa still strong on occasion maybe its rider choice?



Their Motogp effort has been a bit of roller coaster this year to say the least, whilst there or thereabouts, the only race they looked like winning was Qatar. I think that VR has great faith that Filippo can come up with the edge for 2012 and I also think its taken great balls to sign with them-especially with all bar Stoner unable to put the 800 into serious contention, and they've been all ex-world champs.



Having said that, while investigating the times from Brno this morning it was interesting to recall how dominant Loris was on the 990 at some circuits in 2006, so its possible that the duck is a tweak or two away from being the bike to beat. I also believe that VR will work with Nicky next year as he did with Colin at Yamaha-which will undoubtedly create a much stronger package.



But its still a large question mark for Ducati and VR- for they know that Honda and Yamaha will be very strong as usual next year.
 
When following Rossi,s post-signing press conference, I noticed that nobody asked ,what is for me an obvious question.



"Would you have gone to Ducati if Stoner was still there"



I,m sure he wouldn,t have because, if he didn,t like being on equal machinery with Lorenzo, he hardly would have wanted to partner Stoner. Would Ducati have had the money for Rossi if Stoner was still there? Possibly.Perhaps Krops could comment?



Whatever the case, I think, Stoner had to leave Ducati for Rossi to move there. Perhaps Valentino owes Casey a drink??
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Perhaps, in a years time he will be cursing young Casey instead.
 
The man still has plenty of magic, the question is, does Ducati?





i believe there is plenty in the ducati just someone needs to get the best out of it.



rossi is getting older, even tho i know hes very fit but there is a big difference between early twenties and early thirties especially with the current line up it will be tough just hope hes got some of that magic still there.



im hoping rossi and ducati find something workable and i hope it will bring hayden even closer to the front, the guy deserves it.
 
The man still has plenty of magic, the question is, does Ducati?





Interesting question Jum, and one that I would answer absolutely YES.



But that YES is tempered somewhat as for mine it is based on the assumption that Ducati will now be very flush with money from existing and no doubt new sponsors who will undoubtedly want to ride on the Rossi/Ducati Italian bike train. The influx of money will allow increased development etc which will be done with one thing in mind, that being to ensure that Rossi has the best possible package with which to make a tilt in 2011 and onwards.



I would expect right now that the Marlboro dude who carried on last year (with regards to CS' absence) has likely had to clean and disinfect his desk somewhat as he has likely suffered a real wet dream with the signing.



Time will however tell if Rossi and Ducati work, but one must suspect that with VR involved and Preziosi than magic will happen, just a matter of whether that magic will be better than that magic of the opposition











Gaz
 
When following Rossi,s post-signing press conference, I noticed that nobody asked ,what is for me an obvious question.



"Would you have gone to Ducati if Stoner was still there"



I,m sure he wouldn,t have because, if he didn,t like being on equal machinery with Lorenzo, he hardly would have wanted to partner Stoner. Would Ducati have had the money for Rossi if Stoner was still there? Possibly.Perhaps Krops could comment?



Whatever the case, I think, Stoner had to leave Ducati for Rossi to move there. Perhaps Valentino owes Casey a drink??
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Perhaps, in a years time he will be cursing young Casey instead.



I'd say moves were a foot when the fishing trip happened last year, it coincided well with VR's unhappiness with his teammate.....from this point on Ducati were gunning for Rossi, no doubt Suppo knew it and courted the Stoners immediately.
 

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