Hayden vs Spies and Hayes

Keshav · Nov 18, 2008

Interviewed in the recent RR World Hayden said: "I told my manager, Go get me that ride." Hayden said, I'd told him I'd ride for free and fly coach if I had to."

It says a lot about his love of racing as opposed to Spies who allegedly turned down early Moto GP offers and Hayes who wouldn't come to Europe over money issues. After all, it's one thing to speak of "pay cuts" when it's one of us who earn less than $100,000.00 a year. But when you've been earning millions a year for as long as a decade, let's face it - you don't really need any more cash. Any of these guys could retire tomorrow and live out their days in luxury.

As a side note - Hayden also said, "Some guys, for whatever reason, can't get on with that bike. I've banked on it working."

JohnnyKnockdown · Nov 18, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 18 2008, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interviewed in the recent RR World Hayden said: "I told my manager, Go get me that ride." Hayden said, I'd told him I'd ride for free and fly coach if I had to."

It says a lot about his love of racing as opposed to Spies who allegedly turned down early Moto GP offers and Hayes who wouldn't come to Europe over money issues. After all, it's one thing to speak of "pay cuts" when it's one of us who earn less than $100,000.00 a year. But when you've been earning millions a year for as long as a decade, let's face it - you don't really need any more cash. Any of these guys could retire tomorrow and live out their days in luxury.

As a side note - Hayden also said, "Some guys, for whatever reason, can't get on with that bike. I've banked on it working."

I agree with you that I am a bit dissapointed that Hayes did not make the jump because of money but you are wrong about his financial security for the future. He's neither a factory rider or a superbike rider. I doubt he's making more than 200 grand a year. Even if he's making more
he still isn't in the same ballpark as nicky who has made around 3 mill a year for quite some time now.
As far as Spies goes, We've all seen athletes make ridiculous demands before in all types of sports.
From our humble perspective it may seem greedy but in the end they usually seem to get what they wanted or somewhere near it. So does that make them greedy or just smart. I don't necessarily like it but I don't have a problem with it either. If they fail they will be subjected to more criticism
but if your wallets fat than who cares about criticism right?
I would like to see more guys like Nicky that do it for the love of the game but then I remember
Kato and I think "..... Pay them what they want"

povol · Nov 18, 2008

I cant think of one major sport that is as dangerous and pays less than bike racing.Nicky is one of the top 10 riders in the world,as is Spies, and no matter what you do,if you are the top 10 in the world,you should be paid accordingly.Just about all athletes do it for the love of the game but lets get real,there are people getting rich of off them and there is absolutley no shame in getting a piece of the pie.I am not a union guy but professional bike racers need on more than any sport i can think of.The promoters and governing bodies are the ones in it for money,why not turn our focus on their greed.These guys risk their lives for our entertainment,they need to be paid.

Keshav · Nov 18, 2008

Well . . . since Hayes has now ended up with Yamaha factory superbike ride - I have to agree that he did the right thing. I couldn't put a number on what his earnings have been, but it's gotta be more than some of the nobody non-factory riders like Johnny Rock Page - they feature in the back of Rider X (a rag) and these guys always have ginormous McMansions with ocean view and five cars etc. and it can't all be on credit. Back when I was a club racer, the only way I could afford to race the circuit was to couch surf in the houses of established riders who'd gone pro and they're mostly all guys whose names no-one will remember - but even those guys seemed to manage to live quite well. I always wondered how many of them were trustafarians - but it was something of a taboo subject. As far as Spies goes - who knows? Mayhaps his first season in WSB will be humbling - tho I wish him well - but I'd really like to have seen him in Moto GP in 2009 while he's on a roll.

babelfish · Nov 18, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 18 2008, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I cant think of one major sport that is as dangerous and pays less than bike racing.
That's true because the vast majority of racers actually pay for the oportunity to race.
There are world champions that work their ... off to get sponsors enough to sport a new campain for the comming year and has done so year after year. Only a small elite of lucky ones get paid for what they love to do.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Nicky is one of the top 10 riders in the world,as is Spies, and no matter what you do,if you are the top 10 in the world,you should be paid accordingly.Just about all athletes do it for the love of the game but lets get real,there are people getting rich of off them and there is absolutley no shame in getting a piece of the pie.I am not a union guy but professional bike racers need on more than any sport i can think of.The promoters and governing bodies are the ones in it for money,why not turn our focus on their greed.These guys risk their lives for our entertainment,they need to be paid.

Lol, you sure sound like one

Hayden show just why he is a top guy. You don't remain top 10 without a love for the sport, and with that the payment usually follows.
I sure agree with you that they deserve getting well paid but the market decides and it's a valid question regarding the likes of Spies when their demands are not met and they turn down offers.

MigsAngel · Nov 18, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 18 2008, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As a side note - Hayden also said, "Some guys, for whatever reason, can't get on with that bike. I've banked on it working."

He's paying Ducati to ride for them?

But seriously, he probably took a pay cut to ride for Ducati....or he thinks this is his last shot at success in GPs, so is banking on this ride working to save him from a KRJR fate...

Austin · Nov 18, 2008

It just goes to show what kind of a guy Hayden is. As far as Spies goes, yeah he was quite demanding with his salary requirements but it certainly weeded out all the low budget teams like Suzuki. Sure, it would have been nice to see him at Gresini Honda but riding for Scot Honda might have been a disaster. Although he is in WSBK, I think landing at Yamaha is a really good thing for Spies' career. And as has been said, Hayes is a career satellite rider in a domestic series. To continue on being a satellite rider in a support class in an international series would not be that big of a step up. Now he gets a major pay bump and a factory Superbike ride, which is what he's always wanted.

Sally · Nov 18, 2008

I was told once that Nicky makes about U$10m a year in wages and personal sponsors (he gets over U$1m from Alpinestar alone) so I am sure a pay-cut is not hurting him too much.
What Hayden also said was that Ducati offered less than some other MotoGP teams for 2009. I am sure they are still paying more for a year for than most of us would ever hope to make in our day jobs.

As for Spies, I am pretty sure he took a pay-cut by going to WSBK as well. But as Austin said quite rightly, his demands did land him a good ride.
And as Guintoli (I wanted to type West but Guinters is way more professional) showed, a crappy ride in MotoGP can kill/slow down your career. And if Spies comes to MotoGP within a few years, he will probably do so with proven results in WSBK, which holds for more that those two AMA titles (in most people's opinion).

By the way, they are still paying Spies enough or he has enough savings to go and get himself a place on Lake Como. I am so not jealous!

mattsteg · Nov 18, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sally @ Nov 18 2008, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And as Guintoli (I wanted to type West but Guinters is way more professional) showed, a crappy ride in MotoGP can kill/slow down your career.How much did either rider's career get slowed down by having a crappy GP ride? West went from a series of mediocre 250 rides to a couple of 600 supersport wildcards to a GP seat and then back to 600 supersport with a competitive ride. Maybe his 500 ride hurt him, though. Guintoli barely cracked top-ten in 250s. How much can a career riding privateer 250s be set back by ANY premier-class seat?

MigsAngel · Nov 18, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sally @ Nov 18 2008, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And if Spies comes to MotoGP within a few years, he will probably do so with proven results in WSBK, which holds for more that those two AMA titles (in most people's opinion).

Time is against him...he would be moving to GPs say be 2010 at soonest and most likely 2011....so that mean 2 year in which much younger guys coming up from the 125s and 250s will be well ahead of the him....and that does not even take into account the current young guns just getting faster and faster....He should have taken the Gresini ride if he really wanted to get up to speed with GPs...

michaelm · Nov 19, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Nov 19 2008, 07:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Time is against him...he would be moving to GPs say be 2010 at soonest and most likely 2011....so that mean 2 year in which much younger guys coming up from the 125s and 250s will be well ahead of the him....and that does not even take into account the current young guns just getting faster and faster....He should have taken the Gresini ride if he really wanted to get up to speed with GPs...
Mick doohan didn't win his first title until he was 29. Admittedly the pathway seems to be different now, with 250 racing appearing to be the requisite precursor to success in the premier class, but this could change again within spies' time frame. He looks tailor made for motogp to me, and his reputed bike set-up skills are particularly needed by several teams.

MigsAngel · Nov 20, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 19 2008, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Mick doohan didn't win his first title until he was 29. Admittedly the pathway seems to be different now, with 250 racing appearing to be the requisite precursor to success in the premier class, but this could change again within spies' time frame. He looks tailor made for motogp to me, and his reputed bike set-up skills are particularly needed by several teams.

This may be true but time is a factor....and age does impact recovering from injury....but best of luck to him.

Bootsakah · Nov 20, 2008

I don't buy the age thing, either you got the skills to win or you don't. In recent times what matters most in MotoGP, is getting on a good team.

povol · Nov 20, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 19 2008, 03:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Mick doohan didn't win his first title until he was 29. Admittedly the pathway seems to be different now, with 250 racing appearing to be the requisite precursor to success in the premier class, but this could change again within spies' time frame. He looks tailor made for motogp to me, and his reputed bike set-up skills are particularly needed by several teams.
With the 250's future already decided,will the new 600 class riders be as ready when it comes time to jump to Gp.The main thing they learn in 250's is momentum and corner speed.The 600 i dont think is going to be that type of ride.The skills and habits learned[good or bad] will be totally different than a 250.

Tom · Nov 21, 2008

On one hand its easy to appreciate that riders (like anyone with financial responsibility) wants to earn as much as they can and also that with riding careers being short and dangerous, looking for long term security is fine. However it is a shame to see riders pass off career opertunities to maintain a comfortable lifestyle outside of racing. Ultimately not all riders are totally commited to the ideal of being the best, but thats fine.

povol · Nov 21, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Nov 21 2008, 03:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>On one hand its easy to appreciate that riders (like anyone with financial responsibility) wants to earn as much as they can and also that with riding careers being short and dangerous, looking for long term security is fine. However it is a shame to see riders pass off career opertunities to maintain a comfortable lifestyle outside of racing. Ultimately not all riders are totally commited to the ideal of being the best, but thats fine.

There is two words in your quote above that seem to be the sticking point of the way people think.When you say [Career Opportunity},thats where things go in different directions for some.Where we are from and where Josh is from,career opportunity means upgrading your lifestyle,either by financial security,or quality of life.One usually follows the other.Moving to a foreign country where the cost of living is higher,uprooting family and the hardships that causes,{communication,food,cultural differences,etc:}all that for 300% less money. That is not a career opportunity. If he was 22 years old and trying to make a name,i could see it.This decision was a no brainer

Austin · Nov 21, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 21 2008, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is two words in your quote above that seem to be the sticking point of the way people think.When you say [Career Opportunity},thats where things go in different directions for some.Where we are from and where Josh is from,career opportunity means upgrading your lifestyle,either by financial security,or quality of life.One usually follows the other.Moving to a foreign country where the cost of living is higher,uprooting family and the hardships that causes,{communication,food,cultural differences,etc:}all that for 300% less money. That is not a career opportunity. If he was 22 years old and trying to make a name,i could see it.This decision was a no brainer
Spot on.

parcferme · Nov 21, 2008

i don't buy it.

bayliss moved a wife and kids to 3 different continents in as many years.

if you want it bad enough, you do it.

if hayes wanted to race against world class talent, he would make the sacrifice.

Bootsakah · Nov 21, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Nov 21 2008, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i don't buy it.

bayliss moved a wife and kids to 3 different continents in as many years.

if you want it bad enough, you do it.

if hayes wanted to race against world class talent, he would make the sacrifice.

Key word here being, "wanted". Using Bayliss is a bad example, IMHO. I don't think Bayliss had teams in the Aussie championship willing to pay him more then a WSBK ride, so financially speaking it was a easy one for him. Hayes on the other hand had a domestic series willing to pay more.

Tom · Nov 21, 2008

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 21 2008, 04:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is two words in your quote above that seem to be the sticking point of the way people think.When you say [Career Opportunity},thats where things go in different directions for some.Where we are from and where Josh is from,career opportunity means upgrading your lifestyle,either by financial security,or quality of life.One usually follows the other.Moving to a foreign country where the cost of living is higher,uprooting family and the hardships that causes,{communication,food,cultural differences,etc:}all that for 300% less money. That is not a career opportunity. If he was 22 years old and trying to make a name,i could see it.This decision was a no brainer

What it comes down to is that the more materialistic people value financial status over recognition in their own field. Some would even say that being recognized is worth nothing to them and they search for inward satisfaction, but people like that aren't likely to be found in proffessional racing.

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